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Bobby.

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Re: Immigration
Reply #300 - Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:36pm

Matty,
Quote:

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration

Within our means yes - but it's not - there's no room for more people -

our roads are congested - all freeways and motorways turn into car parks
for 2 hours every morning and 2 hours in the evening.
The hospitals are overloaded - ambulances on bypass -
not enough schools -
not enough dentists and doctors -
not enough builders -
a terrible shortage of houses - ridiculous prices -
rents skyrocketing -
prices of everything going up - rampant inflation.

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Frank

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Re: Immigration
Reply #301 - Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

Year 9 bollocks.

Recent migrants are LESS productive than locals so the economic growth figure is NOT commensurate with the immigrant numbers.

Shifts in Australia's migration intake over the past decade appear to be a major contributor to the sharp decline in productivity growth, threatening economic expansion and living standards, a new report finds.

Key points:
The number of migrant workers in Australia was 660,000 higher at the start of 2020 than a decade before
Analysis by e61 finds migrant workers on student and working holiday visas are massively over-represented in low productivity firms
The proportion of migrant workers in high productivity firms has also declined

The research, by economic think tank e61, used a dataset of all firms and workers in the country to find out which businesses were employing migrant workers and how they ranked for productivity performance.

"Migrant workers are more likely to work in lower productivity industries, and within industries they are more likely to work at lower productivity firms," the report concluded.

"This appears to have worsened over the decade to 2020."

This shift into lower productivity employment for migrants coincided with a significant increase in the immigration intake, especially for students.

"The number of migrant workers in Australia has increased by around 660,000 workers between 2011 and 2020," the report observed.

"This increase has been broad-based across the visa categories, with the largest single contribution coming from an increase in the number of workers holding student visas (particularly since 2014)."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/migration-program-declining-productivity-growth/102155820

Even your ABC can't hide that. Every schoolboy knows it, only wee pakis don't.

Tapdance away. What would 'libertarian' grim reamer Foucault say??

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Immigration
Reply #302 - Dec 11^th, 2023 at 8:01pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

Matt. you are discounting the fact Oz is mostly unproductive desert.

And the ABC yesterday said we are currently forced to import corn from Thailand, because drought followed by floods in Oz's limited food growing areas has resulted in crop failures.....not a good recommendation for a Canada-sized population.

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JC Denton

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Re: Immigration
Reply #303 - Dec 11^th, 2023 at 8:06pm

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

matey do you really need to be told what the difference between per capita gdp vs aggregate gdp is

just lol also at s_cking off gdp anyway its an incredibly flawed and narrow way of gauging well being and living standards

australia doesnt produce jack sh_t except houses and minerals

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Karnal

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Australian Politics

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Re: Immigration
Reply #304 - Dec 12^th, 2023 at 12:27am

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 8:06pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

matey do you really need to be told what the difference between per capita gdp vs aggregate gdp is

just lol also at s_cking off gdp anyway its an incredibly flawed and narrow way of gauging well being and living standards

australia doesnt produce jack sh_t except houses and minerals

That's right, dear. I believe my super fund consists of houses and minerals.

How about yours? You flew there, no?

What does your fine country produce?

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Karnal

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Australian Politics

Posts: 98414

Re: Immigration
Reply #305 - Dec 12^th, 2023 at 12:33am

Frank wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

Year 9 bollocks.

Recent migrants are LESS productive than locals so the economic growth figure is NOT commensurate with the immigrant numbers.

Shifts in Australia's migration intake over the past decade appear to be a major contributor to the sharp decline in productivity growth, threatening economic expansion and living standards, a new report finds.

Key points:
The number of migrant workers in Australia was 660,000 higher at the start of 2020 than a decade before
Analysis by e61 finds migrant workers on student and working holiday visas are massively over-represented in low productivity firms
The proportion of migrant workers in high productivity firms has also declined

The research, by economic think tank e61, used a dataset of all firms and workers in the country to find out which businesses were employing migrant workers and how they ranked for productivity performance.

"Migrant workers are more likely to work in lower productivity industries, and within industries they are more likely to work at lower productivity firms," the report concluded.

"This appears to have worsened over the decade to 2020."

This shift into lower productivity employment for migrants coincided with a significant increase in the immigration intake, especially for students.

"The number of migrant workers in Australia has increased by around 660,000 workers between 2011 and 2020," the report observed.

"This increase has been broad-based across the visa categories, with the largest single contribution coming from an increase in the number of workers holding student visas (particularly since 2014)."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/migration-program-declining-productivity-growth/102155820

Even your ABC can't hide that. Every schoolboy knows it, only wee pakis don't.

Tapdance away. What would 'libertarian' grim reamer Foucault say??

Students and those on working holiday visas fly back, dear - back to where they come from.

Unfortunately though, we're stuck with the likes of you.

You flew here. Most broad-based of you, no?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Immigration
Reply #306 - Dec 12^th, 2023 at 8:58pm

On the issue of release of nasties into the community...... it is a crime to deliberately release a virus into the community and set people in fear of sickness and death....

So - how do we prevent the High Court from committing such crimes, and things like 'special consideration for Aboriginal blood in citizenship even if not born here', restoring half-citizenship (dual citizenship with one half here) to a known terrorist so he can saty here, and other special privileges nonsense?

Let us look at motive means and opportunity ..... the motive of having a stacked court is clear - it is stacked so as to facilitate your party's policy platform getting past the keeper... that is one reason I prefer the US approach of having prospective candidates publicly grilled by the Senate (how do you prefer your judge served up? Oh - half-baked will do!)..... and all parties are guilty of that.... so their motive is there to adhere to a party line regardless of their mooted 'independence', even when that party line does not accord with Law.

We have far greater power in limiting their means and opportunity - through outright verboten notices, limiting funding, and so forth.... and not least by careful wording and full explanation of intended legislation that it is hoped will pass properly into law (for a change) ... you know - pass the Marble Bar test.....

We might then begin to see some sense and hard cockery for a change from those old and worn-out party hacks and mates who retire into such jobs...

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Karnal

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Posts: 98414

Re: Immigration
Reply #307 - Dec 12^th, 2023 at 11:56pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 12^th, 2023 at 8:58pm:

On the issue of release of nasties into the community...... it is a crime to deliberately release a virus into the community and set people in fear of sickness and death....

So - how do we prevent the High Court from committing such crimes, and things like 'special consideration for Aboriginal blood in citizenship even if not born here', restoring half-citizenship (dual citizenship with one half here) to a known terrorist so he can saty here, and other special privileges nonsense?

Let us look at motive means and opportunity ..... the motive of having a stacked court is clear - it is stacked so as to facilitate your party's policy platform getting past the keeper... that is one reason I prefer the US approach of having prospective candidates publicly grilled by the Senate (how do you prefer your judge served up? Oh - half-baked will do!)..... and all parties are guilty of that.... so their motive is there to adhere to a party line regardless of their mooted 'independence', even when that party line does not accord with Law.

We have far greater power in limiting their means and opportunity - through outright verboten notices, limiting funding, and so forth.... and not least by careful wording and full explanation of intended legislation that it is hoped will pass properly into law (for a change) ... you know - pass the Marble Bar test.....

We might then begin to see some sense and hard cockery for a change from those old and worn-out party hacks and mates who retire into such jobs...

Excuse me, are you suggesting those sworn against our jolly way of life and values should be limited in their means and opportunity through outright verboten notices, limiting funding and so forth, and submitted to hard cockery?

Many of our friends here would be sent back in a flash. I've got my eye on the old boy in particular, but who else?

A number of members here have decided to shoot through voluntarily. Matty went to his parents' estate in Connecticut. Mistie went to Istanbul. And JC Denton went - where? He never did say.

If we're going to make Aussie for the Aussies, shouldn't we be locking these types in?

And shouldn't we be kicking the other type out?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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Frank

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Gender: male

Re: Immigration
Reply #308 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:38am

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2023 at 12:33am:

Frank wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

JC Denton wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 1:36pm:

if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth (2023): 2.2%. Annual GDP growth (2022): 3.62%

Those two figures might not mean much if we hadn't had consistent economic growth since 1991, the longest record of unbroken economic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

Year 9 bollocks.

Recent migrants are LESS productive than locals so the economic growth figure is NOT commensurate with the immigrant numbers.

Shifts in Australia's migration intake over the past decade appear to be a major contributor to the sharp decline in productivity growth, threatening economic expansion and living standards, a new report finds.

Key points:
The number of migrant workers in Australia was 660,000 higher at the start of 2020 than a decade before
Analysis by e61 finds migrant workers on student and working holiday visas are massively over-represented in low productivity firms
The proportion of migrant workers in high productivity firms has also declined

The research, by economic think tank e61, used a dataset of all firms and workers in the country to find out which businesses were employing migrant workers and how they ranked for productivity performance.

"Migrant workers are more likely to work in lower productivity industries, and within industries they are more likely to work at lower productivity firms," the report concluded.

"This appears to have worsened over the decade to 2020."

This shift into lower productivity employment for migrants coincided with a significant increase in the immigration intake, especially for students.

"The number of migrant workers in Australia has increased by around 660,000 workers between 2011 and 2020," the report observed.

"This increase has been broad-based across the visa categories, with the largest single contribution coming from an increase in the number of workers holding student visas (particularly since 2014)."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/migration-program-declining-productivity-growth/102155820

Students and those on working holiday visas fly back, dear - back to where they come from.

Paki bollocks, wee arse bandit.

Six of the 10 most popular vocational courses for international students are diplomas in business, leadership and management – courses with deliver little practical skills and are in low-demand among employers.

Experts say this has led to a spike in new colleges that have been approved or are waiting to be so in just the last year. They say a number of these and existing colleges, which have become known as ‘ghost schools’ have few teaching facilities and exist merely to channel student visa holders into the workforce.

“It is incumbent upon the government to provide these migrants with clarity about their future. International students and graduates make up the largest share of ‘permanently temporary’ migrants with 108,000 having lived in Australia for five years or more,” the review reads.

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Carl D

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Australian Politics

Posts: 9967
Rivervale, Perth
Gender: male

Re: Immigration
Reply #309 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:50am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Dec 12^th, 2023 at 8:58pm:

On the issue of release of nasties into the community...... it is a crime to deliberately release a virus into the community and set people in fear of sickness and death....

Yes. Yes it is.

Unless you're the government and the virus is SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) of course.

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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51441 Gender:	Re: Immigration Reply #310 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:58am Australia’s permanent skilled migration program draws heavily on temporary migrants (Figure 32). https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/reports-and-publications/reviews-and-inquiries/de... But since not even dangerous criminals can be deported, temporary migrants like student visa holders, can stay on indefinitely.
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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 51441 Gender:	Re: Immigration Reply #311 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:59am Australia’s permanent skilled migration program draws heavily on temporary migrants (Figure 32). https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/reports-and-publications/reviews-and-inquiries/de... But since not even dangerous criminals can be deported, temporary migrants like student visa holders, can stay on indefinitely.
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Karnal

Gold Member

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Australian Politics

Posts: 98414

Re: Immigration
Reply #312 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 3:27pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:38am:

Karnal wrote on Dec 12^th, 2023 at 12:33am:

Frank wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:57pm:

Karnal wrote on Dec 11^th, 2023 at 6:26pm:

[quote author=EmpNap link=1662100846/298#298 date=1702265811]if australia had a way smaller population than now (i.e, no immigration at all for the past 50 years) we'd prob be even more prosperous, not less. it's simple math, you increase the number of people benefiting from a fixed mineral wealth endowment and the more the amount of wealth it adds per person decreases. makes zero sense for a country like australia to pursue a high population strategy anymore than it would for qatar or bahrain to.

Annual net migration growth conomic growth in the history of the world.

And far from having a high population strategy, Australia has a population of 26,473,055 - a small country, compared with similar sized economies. Our current migration target's around 200,000.

Canada, for example, has an immigration target of around half a million each year for the next few years. It has a population of 38 million. It has a nominal GDP of 1.98 trillion. We create 1.55 trillion in US dollars.

Contrary to your argument, our growth has been driven by immigration. Growth figures follow immigration figures closely. Population is at the forefront of economic drivers used by Treasury to plan economic growth, the three Ps: Population, Participation and Productivity.

https://www.afr.com/policy/economy/what-the-three-ps-population-participation-an...

These facts are not in doubt. The Australian economy is the envy of the world. With less than 30 million people, we get a big bang for our buck, so we shouldn't underestimate the importance of participation and productivity.

But population growth is essential. Migrants add to economies. You can't produce more goods and services without more people. Likewise, you can't buy the things you need without people to do, make and deliver them. We stay healthy, for example, when we have enough good food, medicine, and doctors and nurses to treat us. We become smarter when we have enough teachers. We stay housed when we have enough builders. All of these things are in balance, in proportion to population, participation and productivity.

Hard to say why you're so down on immigration, dear. You're a migrant yourself, no? So's the guy you're chatting with. Aren't we all migrants in some way?

Year 9 maths, innit.

Key points:
The number of migrant workers in Australia was 660,000 higher at the start of 2020 than a decade before
Analysis by e61 finds migrant workers on student and working holiday visas are massively over-represented in low productivity firms
The proportion of migrant workers in high productivity firms has also declined

The research, by economic think tank e61, used a dataset of all firms and workers in the country to find out which businesses were employing migrant workers and how they ranked for productivity performance.

"Migrant workers are more likely to work in lower productivity industries, and within industries they are more likely to work at lower productivity firms," the report concluded.

"This appears to have worsened over the decade to 2020."

This shift into lower productivity employment for migrants coincided with a significant increase in the immigration intake, especially for students.

"The number of migrant workers in Australia has increased by around 660,000 workers between 2011 and 2020," the report observed.

"This increase has been broad-based across the visa categories, with the largest single contribution coming from an increase in the number of workers holding student visas (particularly since 2014)."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-29/migration-program-declining-productivity-growth/102155820

Students and those on working holiday visas fly back, dear - back to where they come from.

Paki bollocks, wee arse bandit.

Six of the 10 most popular vocational courses for international students are diplomas in business, leadership and management – courses with deliver little practical skills and are in low-demand among employers.

Experts say this has led to a spike in new colleges that have been approved or are waiting to be so in just the last year. They say a number of these and existing colleges, which have become known as ‘ghost schools’ have few teaching facilities and exist merely to channel student visa holders into the workforce.

“It is incumbent upon the government to provide these migrants with clarity about their future. International students and graduates make up the largest share of ‘permanently temporary’ migrants with 108,000 having lived in Australia for five years or more,” the review reads.

Oh, I see. So here you are, educated at the pwestigious University of Balogney no less, saying how hard these poor foreign students have it.

Is that it, old boy? Lock it in?

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Karnal

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Australian Politics

Posts: 98414

Re: Immigration
Reply #313 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 3:32pm

Frank wrote on Dec 13^th, 2023 at 8:58am:

Australia’s permanent skilled migration program draws heavily on temporary migrants (Figure 32).
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/reports-and-publications/reviews-and-inquiries/de...

But since not even dangerous criminals can be deported, temporary migrants like student visa holders, can stay on indefinitely.

Aha. Dangerous foreign criminals can't be deported now, is it?

How frightful. You'll have to call Alan up with that, dear boy. He'll put a stop to this nonsense, you'll see.

You might win a lunch for two at Lavenders while you're at it.

Just don't break any laws, dear chap. You most certainly can be deported, you just have to be convicted first.

So unfair, no?

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Australian Politics

Posts: 87667
Always was always will be HOME
Gender: male

Re: Immigration
Reply #314 - Dec 13^th, 2023 at 5:31pm

'Temporary migrants' - are not migrants at all - they are what is called 'guest workers'.... how do you know you are being lied to?

Immigration has issued a public statement...

'temporary migrants'.... then why do so many of them stay here and get citizenship etc (unless the ceremony is on Australia Day in some councils who should be sacked and replaced by Gauleiters to bring them into line - one extreme deserves another)...???

Lie, lies and more lies to pull the wool over our eyes - just like Albo's 'simple statement and modest request without twenty six pages attached' - then the bastard(s) goes ahead with the 26 pages as if we didn't vote on them.. REGARDLESS of the fact that many changed their direction on the final run in BECAUSE of The Twenty Six Pages AND the lies being told about their apparent lack existence... so if they weren't part of the deal to vote on, how come government has free rein to just go ahead with them?

If you grass eaters haven't lost all trust in your governments by now you are what is called utterly stupid.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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