thegreatdivide wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 10:56am:

Decoupling has already begun. Foreign companies are moving to Vietnam and India.

Chinese-made EVs have been breaking down and/or batteries blowing up across China.

Poverty in China is rampant.

How long have you lived isolated from the world?

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 11:05am:


so ... a pox on both houses?

Indeed both need to submit to rule of international law, with debt-free money creation in the public sectors of all nations overseen by reformed IMF/World Bank officials,  to replace the current crop of sociopathic neoclassicists  who run them.

China's coal use continues to hit record highs.

It built more new coal power plants in 2021 than the rest of the world combined.

This week China signaled it may ease its 2-year unofficial ban on coal imports from Australia.




https://ourworldindata.org/fossil-fuels

Frank wrote on Jan 5^th, 2023 at 8:51pm:


Wrong thread; but China will peak its CO2 emissions by 2030, and achieve zero emissions by 2060, while  lifting another 700 million people into the middle class at the same time, on its path to 'common prosperity'.

 

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:07pm:


Not propaganda, but let's have a look:

China still needs to lift 700 million, about half its population, out of relative poverty.   

Cf Oz which has around 10% living in relative poverty.

and cf. India which still has c.700 million people - about half its population - still living in ABSOLUTE poverty.

See the problem?

The Asian giants - and other developing economies -  need to lift living standards quickly,  the 1st world doesn't.

Coal is still the fastest and cheapest way to do that, while rolling out renewables ASAP in China and India.   

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 1:43pm:


Poor Lisa, hopelessly confused, not capable of understanding much at all. 

The need to lift 700 million people out of relative poverty NOW is not crystal ball/looking into the future stuff, it's the task confronting the CCP government NOW.

Lisa Jones wrote on Jan 6^th, 2023 at 4:16pm:
 

Certainly that's been evident of you for a long time, but let's see what you've got: 

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Wrong of course, economics is not your strong point.
The CCP, over the last 4 decades,  has lifted 700 million people out of absolute poverty, faster than any nation in history. And moved 400 million into the middle class.

India by comparison still has 700 million living in absolute poverty, and 400 million still in relative poverty. 

Quote:



Devious (or dumb, more likely) aren't you: I explained why China (and India) have to keep burning coal NOW for a while longer, ie, to lift living standards up to developed economy levels, and I noted both intend to reach carbon neutrality by 2060.

You claimed I was 'crystal gazing' as propaganda; burning coal  NOW is a necessity for the developing giants, not propaganda. If China and India are still burning coal when they are developed, then you can speak of "propaganda".   

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Refuted above: no other nation in history has lifted half its population out of absolute poverty in such a short time (4 decades)....and India is yet to do so. 

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Er... the entire world has signed up to Paris, which means zero carbon emissions by 2050 (the Asian giants 10 years later - reasonable, given the huge task).   

Not propaganda (though most nations are probably lying through their teeth...another story, to do with dysfunctional neoliberal economics..) 

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I'm here to educate you, dear Lisa.

Jasin wrote on Jan 7^th, 2023 at 4:55pm: