Bobby. wrote on Aug 7^th, 2022 at 12:24pm:



Silly nonsense.

Belgarion wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:25pm:


May I interject here for a moment please (my hubby is a Foxtel History addict and as his wife my place is next to him .. on this comfy sofa watching whatever he watches).

We've listened to that many documentaries over the use of the atomic bomb and whether it was necessary/warranted esp so late in the war yadda yadda yadda.

There are 2 schools of thought over this. 1 represents your view Belgarian; the other represents Bobby's view.

There is an emerging 3rd view. And that's this : irrespective of where Japan was at in 1945 ... the war had drained an entire globe of millions of people, damaged land and other natural resources and devastated economies that everyone everywhere was physically/psychologically/emotionally/financially EXHAUSTED.

Meantime Japan's soldiers were still operating as indoctrinated robots fully controlled by their Emperor /god. They were ordered to fight to the last man and that was the only order they were prepared to listen to.

And this is where the USA comes in: Having grabbed a few gifted scientists from the now defeated Germany ... they were more than ready to use this weapon in order to FINALLY bring an end to a war which started in 1939. So by 1945.... a wonderful 2 pronged opportunity arose for the US. The US could finally get back at Japan for Pearl Harbour (that reason wasn't talked about much of course) WHILE testing out what an atomic bomb could actually do because no one REALLY knew (that reason was also not talked about much).

Anyway the day came where the marketing of the idea of the necessity for using the atomic bomb was finally approved. Essentially ALL sides were go. Which sides? These ones : If you weren't sick of war and its death and destruction you were sick of Japan's robot like soldiers who fully intended to continue fighting til the last man. I should mention here that "man" would have included boys.

Others were keen for revenge for Pearl Harbour and others were keen to see what emerging atomic technology could do to a relentless enemy hell bent on continuing to save their emperor's face and reputation.

Irrespective of which side you chose/identified with, you were party to the decision to go ahead.

Boris wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 10:25pm:


There is no evidence to suggest that this was a reality.  Yes, the Japanese were afraid of the fUSSR but it was a remoter threat than you seem to consider.  The Soviet's lacked the ability to project their forces to Hakkado.  The most they could achieve was some of the Kurile islands and Sakalin and even there the Japanese managed to resist most of the Soviet forces landed for several days.  The Soviets simply lacked the backup forces available to the American forces.

The USAAF was able to project it's force against the home islands.  It had the B-29 heavy bomber and was able to start using in the last few weeks of the conflict the B-32 Dominator heavy bomber.   Then you have Tiger Force, Lancaster and Lincoln heavy bombers from the RAF.  To kill the large number of civilians mentioned in Tokyo, it took a vast number of bombers - over several hundred dropping incendiaries in firestorm raids of unimaginable savagery and duration.  The Japanese were unprepared for them and their cities were unfortunately constructed in such a manner that they were unstoppable once started.  Compare with the what occurred in the A-Bomb raids, by a single bomber.

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:41pm:


Nope. She was born in 1920 and was one of two typists working for Churchill at the Whitehall underground complex during the war.

She actually had one life-long mystery about that time. Once, Churchill turned to her and said her name - about to ask her about something, but then changed his mind and turned away. She wondered about what he was going to ask her right up until she died in 2019.

Her first husband was killed during the war (flight crew on a Lancaster bomber)

She moved to Oz with her 2nd husband as 10 pound Poms after the war. They got divorced.

I'm a son of her 3rd and final husband.

She had 6 children. The first when she was 18. She adopted him out.

3 children with husband #2

2 children with husband #3.

I'm the last child.

Frank wrote on Aug 8^th, 2022 at 9:48pm:



I backed it up with this:






October 15, 2021.


One day after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, General MacArthur’s pilot, Weldon E. Rhoades, noted in his diary: “General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this ‘Frankenstein’ monster. I had a long talk with him today, necessitated by the impending trip to Okinawa.”4

Admiral Halsey, Commander of the U.S. Third Fleet, testified before Congress in September 1949, “I believe that bombing – especially atomic bombing – of civilians, is morally indefensible. . . . I know that the extermination theory has no place in a properly conducted war.”5

Admiral Leahy, Truman’s chief military advisor, wrote in his memoirs: “It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.”6

That the Japanese were on the verge of defeat was made clear to the president in a top-secret memorandum from Secretary of War Henry Stimson on July 2, 1945. Stimson noted that Japan “has no allies,” its “navy is nearly destroyed,” she is vulnerable to an economic blockade depriving her “of sufficient food and supplies for her population,” she is “terribly vulnerable to our concentrated air attack upon her crowded cities, industrial, and food resources,” she “has against her not only the Anglo-American forces but the rising forces of China and the ominous threat of Russia,” and the United States has “inexhaustible and untouched industrial resources to bring to bear against her diminishing potential.”

Bobby. wrote on Aug 9^th, 2022 at 8:05am:


The use of these bombs was a disgrace to the world?  OK Bobby, here is a question for you. Would you trade your life to bring back the dead of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? A simple yes or no.

Did Hiroshima Save Japan From Soviet Occupation?
Stalin had planned to seize a major Japanese island. When Truman refused, Stalin blinked. Why?

Japan’s second-largest island, roughly the size of Maine, Hokkaido was of huge strategic significance. Joseph Stalin’s possession of the island would turn the vast Sea of Okhotsk into a Soviet lake, and ease the projection of Soviet naval power into the Pacific. Stalin had his eyes on a big prize. The detailed Soviet operational plans, published Wednesday by the Wilson Center in the full English translation for the first time, show that all the pieces had been put in place for a swift Soviet occupation.

On Aug. 16 the Soviet leader asked U.S. President Harry S. Truman to acquiesce in this “modest wish” or risk offending “Russian public opinion.” Although just months earlier, the U.S. War Department had considered letting the Soviets occupy Hokkaido and even part of Honshu, Japan’s largest island, Hiroshima had clearly changed things for Truman. Possession of a mighty new weapon gave Truman the confidence to set the terms of his relationship with Stalin. On Aug. 18, Truman bluntly turned Uncle Joe down. Stalin procrastinated, weighing the pros and cons. Two days before the planned Aug. 24 landing on Hokkaido, he called off the operation.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/08/05/stalin_japan_hiroshima_occupation_hokkaido/

Belgarion wrote on Aug 9^th, 2022 at 9:29am:



You are employing a Straw man fallacy.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted, but instead replaced with a false one.