Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #45 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:07pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

We don't need Abbos telling us what to do -
they've already received 100s of $billions in handouts -
that's already a good deal for them.

They can just shut up and hold their hands out for more free money

Albo acknowledged that today, and also noted the total failure of that money to close the gap....

Albo thinks the voice will change things; he is wrong, but at least the existence of an enshrined voice will finally reveal we have a systems problem, and point government in the right direction, ie changing the current neoliberal system which crushes those least able to compete in a market economy.

So if Albo is wrong and it won't change anything - why do it at all? What are YOUR reasons?

You really think that idea will change governments away from the 'neoliberal system'? Governments are in it up to their necks.... why would they change a good thing for them?

All an Apartheid voice will reveal is what is totally wrong with a country that simply does not understand equality and equal treatment... that being that governments always use that to wedge people into groups and keep them competing so they never see the real issues of self-serving and dismal governance.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #46 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:12pm

What happened to Albo's requirement for Key Performance Indicators on violence and home violence and all the rest of the endemic problems of countless Aborigines?

The rioting and killing and attempted killing and never-ending bashing and killing of women, kids and men goes on and on and has escalated.... what about the KPIs, Albo?

Or was that just a soft soap to sell the idea, as if you were actually being responsible instead of a jellyfish?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #47 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:20pm

Bias_2012 wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Aboriginals became citizens in 1967, just like the rest of us

But it wasn't understood by government that the current neoliberal system crushes those least able to compete (for whatever reason) and prosper in a neoliberal economy.

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Any special voice should only be for the protection of rock art and the like, associated with their culture. But they already have avenues to pursue political issues

You mean, like old frail white people laying in their own faeces in nursing homes, can pursue political avenues....

One thing is for certain: you won't vote for the increased taxes needed to fix those shameful conditions...

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Albosqueaky is only big-noting himself and trying to score political points

He is a decent man, though beholden to your vicious economic philosophy. His delusion he can change things for the better by enshrining a voice will be dispelled soon enough, and when that happens he may wake up to the systems problem he is dealing with.

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This "Voice" thing could be voted down until we make changes, re: republic ... Squeaky's cabinet has a Minister for "Republic"

The republic won't deal with your vicious economic neoliberalism either.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #48 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm

Just fought I'd try this on the weekend.. eh? While you're all here and fired up ...

Albo coming out with cunning statements like 'giving a voice to the voiceless' - good salesmanship and spin, but it's bullshit as shown. Motherhood statements without even beginning to address the nuts and bolts...not even a start on how this is supposed to work and what it will achieve.... just spin to sweeten it for the unthinking.

There are plenty of voiceless people out there - the Abos aren't Robinson Crusoe's Black Man Friday ....

Tell me now, bruvvas and sistahs - exactly what 'voice' do YOU have in matters that directly affect you? Walk into my parlour, said the spider to the fly .....

If you want to fall for spin, go for it... just don't blame me .....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #49 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:32pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:42pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:13pm:

Brian Ross wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

A referendum means the Australian public gets to decide, just as they did in 1967. Hopefully, just as in 1967, they will decide in the affirmative and refute the Racists and put them back in their places, under the rock from which they crawled. Roll Eyes

All this without even knowing what you'll be voting in the affirmative for.

Doesn't matter, see #38. You will be voting for a "voice".

So, vote for anything, then construct what it implies via fantastical imagination.

You've got to stop slurping that CCP potato water.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #50 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:35pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:07pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

We don't need Abbos telling us what to do -
they've already received 100s of $billions in handouts -
that's already a good deal for them.

They can just shut up and hold their hands out for more free money

Albo acknowledged that today, and also noted the total failure of that money to close the gap....

Albo thinks the voice will change things; he is wrong, but at least the existence of an enshrined voice will finally reveal we have a systems problem, and point government in the right direction, ie changing the current neoliberal system which crushes those least able to compete in a market economy.

So if Albo is wrong and it won't change anything - why do it at all? What are YOUR reasons?

Already stated: so Albo will be confronted with the fact he is operating within a vicious economic philosophy which demands governments borrow from greedy private financiers. He is not aware of that fact yet.

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You really think that idea will change governments away from the 'neoliberal system'? Governments are in it up to their necks.... why would they change a good thing for them?

Because - as Albo admitted - the $billions thrown at the problem didn't work, he will learn he must adopt a system which does work.

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All an Apartheid voice will reveal is what is totally wrong with a country that simply does not understand equality and equal treatment...

You don't understand the difference between equality of opportunity and equality of outcome. No-one is asking for the latter.

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that being that governments always use that to wedge people into groups and keep them competing so they never see the real issues of self-serving and dismal governance.

No, neoliberal orthodoxy which has captured government, forces us all to compete in a dog-eat-dog monetary economy.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #51 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:50pm

As usual - you are trapped in theory. None of that works - even 'opportunity' is lost for persons who choose to live in ghettoes and lead the easy life of doing as little as possible, and who live in remote areas.

Opportunity is comparative - their opportunity to become a fisherperson or a hunter far outweighs the opportunity of a major city dweller to do that.... what are these 'opportunities' of which you speak?

We all understand fully the difference between equality of opportunity.... and equality of outcome.... so how do you propose to provide equal opportunity to do anything to those who live in remote areas and choose not to go to school etc, and prefer to wage tribal wars, as in the NT and parts of WA?

What is your actual proposal over and above the baseless hope that governments here will suddenly 'see the light' as you say it to be, and start down a new path that will somehow miraculously resolve all the problems?

Please - let's not hear any more about 'generational disadvantage' .... they're not Robinson Crusoe's Lack Man Friday there....

'voice for the voiceless' that's YTF we are hearing so pharken much about the poor darlings... Roll Eyes

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby.

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #52 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 8:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

We don't need Abbos telling us what to do -
they've already received 100s of $billions in handouts -
that's already a good deal for them.

They can just shut up and hold their hands out for more free money

Albo acknowledged that today, and also noted the total failure of that money to close the gap....

Albo thinks the voice will change things; he is wrong, but at least the existence of an enshrined voice will finally reveal we have a systems problem, and point government in the right direction, ie changing the current neoliberal system which crushes those least able to compete in a market economy.

What have those Abbos done with all those 100s of $billions of dollars?
Have they just pissed it all up against a wall?
They must be the most useless people on this planet.
You can't help them no matter what you do.

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« Last Edit: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 9:40pm by Bobby. »

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 87765 Always was always will be HOME Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #53 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 8:18pm
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #54 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 9:53pm

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 8:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 6:44pm:

We don't need Abbos telling us what to do -
they've already received 100s of $billions in handouts -
that's already a good deal for them.

They can just shut up and hold their hands out for more free money

Albo acknowledged that today, and also noted the total failure of that money to close the gap....

Albo thinks the voice will change things; he is wrong, but at least the existence of an enshrined voice will finally reveal we have a systems problem, and point government in the right direction, ie changing the current neoliberal system which crushes those least able to compete in a market economy.

What have those Abbos done with all those 100s of $billions of dollars?

Much of it has ended up in the bureaucracy treating the consequences of dysfunction, eg, crime (hence the high incarceration rate), rather than treating the causes of dysfunction eg generational unemployment, poverty, and alcoholism. The latest example is removing ban on alcohol sales:

https://www.nit.com.au/public-booze-ban-rule-return-urged-as-unrest-grows-in-the...

"Laws banning public consumption of alcohol within two kilometres of licensed premises in the Northern Territory should be reimposed to curb rising rates of drunken violence, the opposition says.

The laws were removed by the Labor government in 2019 but opposition spokesman for alcohol policy Gerald Maley says police have been left with fewer options when dealing with anti-social behaviour."

Obviously the causes of excess alcohol consumption need to be addressed, otherwise the dole will continue to be pissed against walls, and spent on incarceration, instead of creating employment and functional families.

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Have they just pissed it all up against a wall?
They must be the most useless people on this planet.
You can't help them no what you do.

Addressed above. There was a successful abo. employment scheme, the CDEP, but Howard cancelled it because "it was too expensive", and didn't fit with free market ideology, but it would have been much cheaper in the long run than paying for the damage from alcoholism and incarceration associated with unemployment, not to mention the damage to morale from loss of worthwhile employment.

"The Community Development Employment Projects (CDEP) program was an Australian Government funded initiative for unemployed Indigenous people in select locations of Australia. The initiative provides activities to develop participants' skills and to improve their employability."

"In July 2009, CDEP was replaced with Job Services Australia in regions with “established economies”. In remote areas, new participants were redirected to income support direct from Centrelink"

That is: out of work and back on the dole. Sheer ideological bastardry on the part of the government.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #55 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:03pm

Well.... when your intention is to drain the swamp, it's hard to keep your eye on the ball when you're up to your arse in alligators...

Money spent on crime - pissed against the wall.

What equal opportunity does a person working in the city have to decide when he/she might go out fishing or hunting... or just lazing around waiting for the next cargo cult? When does a prospective home buyer in Civilisation have equal opportunity to expect housing provided and not have to pay for it? When does a worker in civilisation get equal opportunity to lay claim to a vast swathe of land because his ancestors and mates walked over it? when does a worker in civilisation get equal opportunity to gain unwarranted wealth to waste via someone wanting to dig up that same vast swathe?

Equal opportunity is relative..... told ya...

Voiceless - they currently have the ear and voice of the Prime Minister trying to sell the idea of some voice - and the entire Labor party nodding heads in lockstep, along with any number of others in the Parliament.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 111825 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #56 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:04pm Thanks Mr Divide, You can't help them no matter what you do.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #57 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:23pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 8:18pm:

https://i.imgflip.com/6odwt4.jpg

No way. My job is to have you feeling the pain of the ugliness of your dysfunctional neoliberal ideology which serves the most competitive quite well, but leaves the least capable behind to lanquish in poverty.

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As usual - you are trapped in theory. None of that works - even 'opportunity' is lost for persons who choose to live in ghettoes and lead the easy life of doing as little as possible, and who live in remote areas

People don't choose to live in ghettos, and abos in remote settlements took the opportunities offered by the very successful CDEP scheme outlined in the previous post.

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"Opportunity is comparative - their opportunity to become a fisherperson or a hunter far outweighs the opportunity of a major city dweller to do that.... what are these 'opportunities' of which you speak?"

The opportunities offered by the CDEP, which Howard trashed - in a typical bit of RW ideological bastardry.

Note: living in the modern world by hunting and fishing alone is no longer possible, that's your "comparative opportunity" error.

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We all understand fully the difference between equality of opportunity.... and equality of outcome.... so how do you propose to provide equal opportunity to do anything to those who live in remote areas and choose not to go to school etc, and prefer to wage tribal wars, as in the NT and parts of WA?

See the CDEP scheme, cancelled by Howard. Se details in #54.

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What is your actual proposal over and above the baseless hope that governments here will suddenly 'see the light' as you say it to be, and start down a new path that will somehow miraculously resolve all the problems?

Similar to the CDEP scheme; instead of cancelling it, Howard should have expanded it to include all abos. (and to all unemployed white youth...).

Government will be forced to see the the light, when even an enshrined voice is shown to be useless against the current vicious survival of the fittest market neoliberalism.

Quote:

Please - let's not hear any more about 'generational disadvantage'

Request denied. You need to examine your attachment to the current vicious neoliberal economic system.

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« Last Edit: Jul 31^st, 2022 at 12:01pm by thegreatdivide »

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 13887 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #58 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:29pm Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:04pm: Thanks Mr Divide, You can't help them no matter what you do. Examine the successful CDEP scheme (successful before Howard cancelled it) which proves people can be assisted into morale building employment, and away from alcoholism engendered by unemployment.
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Bobby.

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #59 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:29pm:

Bobby. wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 10:04pm:

Thanks Mr Divide,

You can't help them no matter what you do.

Examine the successful CDEP scheme (successful before Howard cancelled it) which proves people can be assisted into morale building employment, and away from alcoholism engendered by unemployment.

Too many of them are still alcoholics and petrol sniffers.

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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »