Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 76766 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #435 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:01pm Frank wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 5:47pm: You are repeating stupid, lazy and empty accusations that you cannot possibly support with any evidence only if you ignore history
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mothra

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #436 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:34pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 5:40pm:

what did you say your IQ was? 10?

you realise that meme doesn't apply for what you're criticizing me off, right?

You're off anyway without any criticism... any such is apt in your case... you realise that your meme in no way applies to someone of gigantic intellectual stature who seeks to discuss openly all issues?

Even you should be able to work out that my defending the old ladies now who you assholes call the thieves of your heritage or whatever is a fine cause... and proves you are all unthinking robotic idiots.

Can't wait for your parents to die so you can strip the assets off those rapacious baby boomers, eh? Your mother was so oppressed you are now drooling over getting your filthy hands on her worldly goods...

You and your kind are idiots, Smith and should spend a wet weekend in the public stocks outside the shopping centres frequented by boomers... see how you'd go then.

Oh. My sides.

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If you can't be a good example, you have to be a horrible warning.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #437 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:39pm

mothra wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:34pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:04pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 5:40pm:

what did you say your IQ was? 10?

you realise that meme doesn't apply for what you're criticizing me off, right?

You're off anyway without any criticism... any such is apt in your case... you realise that your meme in no way applies to someone of gigantic intellectual stature who seeks to discuss openly all issues?

Even you should be able to work out that my defending the old ladies now who you assholes call the thieves of your heritage or whatever is a fine cause... and proves you are all unthinking robotic idiots.

Can't wait for your parents to die so you can strip the assets off those rapacious baby boomers, eh? Your mother was so oppressed you are now drooling over getting your filthy hands on her worldly goods...

You and your kind are idiots, Smith and should spend a wet weekend in the public stocks outside the shopping centres frequented by boomers... see how you'd go then.

Oh. My sides.

Yes - your one sides....I thought you didn't take sides - like me... love to put Smith in his place... on his knees doing concrete.. every White Massa should have a coffle of imports to do his hard yakka...down on the plantation Smith would be forever tied up being whipped for his big mouth...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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mothra Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 36049 Gender:	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #438 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:46pm I rest my case.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #439 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:50pm

mothra wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:46pm:

I rest my case.

I usually put mine down just inside the door for a fast getaway the next morning.... all loaded and ready to go.

Anyway - the NO argument seems to be growing everywhere.... Jacinta Price posted a video of her asking a question in Par-lee-a-ment and The Honourable Gallagher responding... without offering much beyond waffle.... the Farcebook comments are all in the negative with most saying they will not vote for something not fully explained and ironclad so that every pharken clown with a bright idea can come along and change it without notice.

Australians are not that silly - and one even reflected what I said way back - I don't think Labor really want this to get up... it's grand-standing - they're sure putting the Mocka on it... Albo saying that he wasn't going to discuss the ways and means, nuts and bolts until after the vote was clearly intended to derail the whole idea.

It won't get up...

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« Last Edit: Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:01pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller »

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #440 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:17pm

freediver wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 7:00pm:

Quote:

i see the deflection

You are deflecting John. Do you see the relevance?

Quote:

What happened with ATSIC is exactly why the voice needs to be enshrined in the constitution. As happened with Atsic, there are to many racist rednecks in politics waiting in the wings for the slightest excuse to silence whatever voice the aborigines have

What makes you think it will be a voice for Aboriginal people, or that it is even possible for one voice to speak for half a million of them?

Quote:

so change the design.

We already have a perfectly good democracy.

Quote:

Don't eliminate whatever voice they had

What are you talking about John? Aborigines have lots of voices.

Quote:

parliament can change the people 'representing' that voice anytime they feel the voice isn't representing the people it's supposed to be.

You mean if it stops being a bunch of government stooges pretending that all people from one race think the same thoughts? Sure, they can do that any time they want, which is what will guarantee it is a bunch of government stooges pretending that all people from one race think the same thoughts. A racist, inherently corrupt institution enshrined in our constitution.

FD? Are you against putting a paragraph about the Boongs in the constitution?

Why or why not?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #441 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

(2) permanent but voiceless

(3) transient

(4) transient

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50182 At my desk.	Re: The question about a voice will be asked... Reply #442 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:53pm BS BS BS BS
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #443 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy - the LNP had numbers once...

(2) permanent but voiceless

No more voiceless than anyone else as a group - we've been over that

(3) transient

Same as everyone else who can arrange a lobby group, only this lot have a permanent group anyway, their own Minister, Department and all the bodies that already advise those.

(4) transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy of the people first and foremost... which we will one day attain....

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

Won't happen - Labor is sabotaging it. The operative word out there is NO.

But you know all that - you are simply being dogmatic, hoping that somehow this disastrous turn of fortune over this issue will suddenly reverse itself...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #444 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:28pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy - the LNP had numbers once...

(2) permanent but voiceless

No more voiceless than anyone else as a group - we've been over that

(3) transient

Same as everyone else who can arrange a lobby group, only this lot have a permanent group anyway, their own Minister, Department and all the bodies that already advise those.

(4) transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy of the people first and foremost... which we will one day attain....

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

Won't happen - Labor is sabotaging it. The operative word out there is NO.

But you know all that - you are simply being dogmatic, hoping that somehow this disastrous turn of fortune over this issue will suddenly reverse itself...

Granted it will require the passing of your generation into irrelevance or death for this proposition to be common parlance.

Given that's only about 10 years from today, it's a short time in national history.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #445 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:30pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

(2) permanent but voiceless

(3) transient

(4) transient

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

Being Aboriginal is transient.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #446 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:37pm

Frank wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:30pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

(2) permanent but voiceless

(3) transient

(4) transient

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

Being Aboriginal is transient.

Generational normative is transient.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #447 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:47pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:28pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 8:47pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 6:24pm:

Spoon feeding for idiots 101..... next four issues raised by this board.....

They already have a higher percentage of representation in Parliament than their percentage representation in the community.

They are already enshrined in the constitution as Australians - same as everyone else.

They also have lobby groups, special representative groups with access to government, and over-representation in the press.

They have the support of Labor, the Greens, the majority of Independents, as well as a number of those on the 'right' side of Parliament.

(1) Transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy - the LNP had numbers once...

(2) permanent but voiceless

No more voiceless than anyone else as a group - we've been over that

(3) transient

Same as everyone else who can arrange a lobby group, only this lot have a permanent group anyway, their own Minister, Department and all the bodies that already advise those.

(4) transient

Them's the breaks in a democracy of the people first and foremost... which we will one day attain....

Next step: a permanent voice in parliament.

Won't happen - Labor is sabotaging it. The operative word out there is NO.

But you know all that - you are simply being dogmatic, hoping that somehow this disastrous turn of fortune over this issue will suddenly reverse itself...

Granted it will require the passing of your generation into irrelevance or death for this proposition to be common parlance.

Given that's only about 10 years from today, it's a short time in national history.

It won't get up and by the time my generation passes on, the wiser younger folk will have learned enough to know that bullshit does not carry the day.

You really are a sick puppy, basking in the fine life that boomers built for your kind, and then wishing them ill as if they are some kind of disease. They actually know a lot more than you do, that's clear.

Out there in reality land the consensus is very much NO, for many reasons.

You're dreaming.... it's a silly idea and plainly racist and discriminatory and has zero real benefits, but what it does create is - as I said - a shadow government at every level of society - something the Labor should rightly disavow.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #448 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:53pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:47pm:

It won't get up and by the time my generation passes on, the wiser younger folk will have learned enough to know that bullshit does not carry the day.

You really are a sick puppy, basking in the fine life that boomers built for your kind, and then wishing them ill as if they are some kind of disease. They actually know a lot more than you do, that's clear.

Out there in reality land the consensus is very much NO, for many reasons.

You're dreaming.... it's a silly idea and plainly racist and discriminatory and has zero real benefits, but what it does create is - as I said - a shadow government at every level of society - something the Labor should rightly disavow.

I know it's hard to accept - irrelevance and death and the decline of the collective power each generation has in its turn - but it afflicts us all in our turn.

The prevailing collective opinions of previous generations pass away - witnessing it is the price you pay for living long.

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #449 - Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:58pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:53pm:

Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Aug 3^rd, 2022 at 9:47pm:

It won't get up and by the time my generation passes on, the wiser younger folk will have learned enough to know that bullshit does not carry the day.

You really are a sick puppy, basking in the fine life that boomers built for your kind, and then wishing them ill as if they are some kind of disease. They actually know a lot more than you do, that's clear.

Out there in reality land the consensus is very much NO, for many reasons.

You're dreaming.... it's a silly idea and plainly racist and discriminatory and has zero real benefits, but what it does create is - as I said - a shadow government at every level of society - something the Labor should rightly disavow.

I know it's hard to accept - irrelevance and death and the collective power each generation has in its turn - but it afflicts us all in our turn.

The prevailing collective opinions of previous generations pass away - witnessing it is the price you pay for living long.

Generalisation to the max - no two people hold exactly the same views, and one of the deepest flaws in the 'reasoning' of the modern educated person is the delusion that all of a certain generation or age share the exact same ideas and values.... nothing could be further from the truth.

I merely look at the reasons brought up to either support it or reject it - the NO case far out-weighs the yes case... which, frankly, doesn't exist in any way. There is not one reason on this Earth, other than misguided and manipulated sentimentality, to enshrine a separate Aboriginal voice to our Parliament, Ministers, and public servants and to extend that to every level of government, as their final solution for the nation clearly says is the desired result.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Sir Grappler Truth Teller on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »