Australian Politics Forum - The question about a voice will be asked...

John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #300 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:18pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Hey did anyone else know that corruption is not a reason but merely an excuse Shocked

???!!!???

how many times have the libs and their members been found to be acting corruptly? How many times did the libs close down the liberal party? Or any other organisation where there was corruption (which would include just about every large organisation)

I know your stupidity is genetic but you really should try harder not to embarrass yourself so often.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #301 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:19pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 1^st, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Frank wrote on Aug 1^st, 2022 at 9:38pm:

What ARE the jobs in remote Aboriginal shiteholes that are not being filled?

https://insidestory.org.au/making-a-living-differently/

Making a living differently:
The abolition of Community Development Employment Projects has undermined economic renewal in remote Indigenous communities

"Abolishing CDEP was a well-intentioned (my reading: ideological) mistake and CDP is our attempt to atone for it.” So said Tony Abbott** in a recent exchange with journalist Amos Aikman in the Australian. CDEP was the Community Development Employment Projects scheme, which replaced unemployment benefits in a growing number of Indigenous communities after it was launched by the Fraser government in 1977. CDP, or the Community Development Programme, is a work-for-the-dole scheme that pays participants far lower hourly rates than under CDEP.

The Howard government began dismantling CDEP in 2004, despite official statistics and case studies that demonstrated its benefits for Indigenous individuals, communities and organisations. The government’s intention, according to employment minister Joe Hockey, was “to move people off welfare and into ‘real’ employment.” Put this way, his statement misleadingly portrayed CDEP as solely an employment program, ignoring its important role in community development, and erroneously defined CDEP participants as welfare recipients

Now Frank, I know even you are capable of reading and comprehending that last paragraph.

Quote:

Why do they need to fly in white people to do the work? Why are Aborigines unemployable there? How would you make them employable?

Teach them to become builders and teachers, after their communities have sufficiently developed to stand on their own, mentioned as one goal of the CDEP.

Quote:

By forcing them off the grog, off the benefit, taking their kids away from them unless they shape up, etc. Do a Maoist CCP on them, no?

No; by intelligent government intervention,, initiated by successful schemes like the CDEP.

Oh...and by enshrining a voice whose successful policies can't be overturned on ideological grounds.

** Abbott at least bothered to live on the remote camps for some days when he was PM, to try to understand the issues. Hence his recognition it was a mistake for Howard to abolish the CDEP.

Concluding paragraph:
How might Indigenous Australians such as the Kuninjku be afforded proper opportunities to make a decent living as they choose? The reintroduction of CDEP and the payment of compensation for this most egregious transition would be a start. But it is important to avoid the trap of focusing too narrowly on CDP; such reform must be just one element of a broader shift in policy approach to decolonisation and self-determination, which must accommodate the fundamental Indigenous economic right to live regionally and remotely and make a living differently.
https://insidestory.org.au/making-a-living-differently/

Aboriginal self-determination. Another word for 'Aborigine, help yourself' and we will assist.
But it doesn't work the other way around, and never has: giving Aborigines assistance and then waiting for them to help themselves with it.

Work or walkabout? "Draconian attendance requirements engaging them five hours a day, five days a week, in work for the dole."

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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #302 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #303 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

They did you flog! Nothing was working so they changed the entire corrupt entity!

Now get a job and pay some taxes and stop pretending you know what you're dribbling on about. Everyone else including this site's owner is making fun of your stupidity but you're too far gone to even realise it!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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aquascoot

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #304 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

whats not working is the arrogant attitude that people in suits in canberra can have any positive effect whatsoever on remote communities.

arrogance of the highest order.

like the cigar smoking, scotch drinking generals in the chateaus in WW1 dictating policy at the front line.

now its the avacado eating, latte swilling leftie intellectuals in their inner urban dinner parties.

disgraceful people

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #305 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:27pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Hey did anyone else know that corruption is not a reason but merely an excuse Shocked

???!!!???

I know your stupidity is genetic but you really should try harder not to embarrass yourself so often.

You don't know jack sh1t. You never do!

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Karnal

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #306 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:40pm

aquascoot wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

whats not working is the arrogant attitude that people in suits in canberra can have any positive effect whatsoever on remote communities.

arrogance of the highest order.

like the cigar smoking, scotch drinking generals in the chateaus in WW1 dictating policy at the front line.

now its the avacado eating, latte swilling leftie intellectuals in their inner urban dinner parties.

disgraceful people

Oh, I know. That's why the suits are up in the NT in their Akubras, consulting on a plan the Boongs gave them.

Who knows? If the suits are nice enough, maybe the Boongs will ask for some flour, sugar and tobacco in lieu of wages and hand over their kids to the Welfare.

Disgraceful people, no?

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #307 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 2:53pm

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 10:02am:

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:48am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 1^st, 2022 at 10:56pm:

How many full blooded aboriginals are there these days?

Difficult question to answer with little or no reliable references.

They're almost non-existent. Estimates say around 5,000 in total.
There're 468,000 Aboriginals in total in Australia of which 99% are
mixed race, and 1% are full blooded.

Good grief Geoff you're years behind the last 2021 census figures. It's nearly double that now.

Quote:

812,728 people identified as being of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander origin, representing 3.2 per cent of the total population.

Of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people counted: 91.4 per cent identified as Aboriginal; 4.2 per cent identified as Torres Strait Islander; 4.4 per cent identified as both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander.

The median age for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people has increased. In 2021, the median was 24 years, up from 23 years in 2016, 21 years in 2011.

Most (89.1 per cent) people who identified as being Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander at the Indigenous status question reported an Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander ancestry in 2021.

There were 167 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander languages used at home in 2021 by 76,978 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

The most widely reported language groups used were Arnhem Land and Daly River Region Languages (14.5 per cent) and Torres Strait Island Languages (12.0 per cent).

your stats don't mention the number of full bloods, which the original questioner asked for.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #308 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 2:57pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 2:53pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 10:02am:

AusGeoff wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:48am:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 1^st, 2022 at 10:56pm:

How many full blooded aboriginals are there these days?

Difficult question to answer with little or no reliable references.

They're almost non-existent. Estimates say around 5,000 in total.
There're 468,000 Aboriginals in total in Australia of which 99% are
mixed race, and 1% are full blooded.

Good grief Geoff you're years behind the last 2021 census figures. It's nearly double that now.

Quote:

812,728 people identified as being of Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander origin, representing 3.2 per cent of the total population.

Of the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people counted: 91.4 per cent identified as Aboriginal; 4.2 per cent identified as Torres Strait Islander; 4.4 per cent identified as both Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander.

The median age for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people has increased. In 2021, the median was 24 years, up from 23 years in 2016, 21 years in 2011.

Most (89.1 per cent) people who identified as being Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander at the Indigenous status question reported an Aboriginal and/or Torres Strait Islander ancestry in 2021.

There were 167 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander languages used at home in 2021 by 76,978 Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

The most widely reported language groups used were Arnhem Land and Daly River Region Languages (14.5 per cent) and Torres Strait Island Languages (12.0 per cent).

your stats don't mention the number of full bloods, which the original questioner asked for.

Damn you beat me to it! That is exactly what I asked.

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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thegreatdivide

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #309 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:10pm

Frank wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:19pm:

Concluding paragraph:
"How might Indigenous Australians such as the Kuninjku be afforded proper opportunities to make a decent living as they choose? The reintroduction of CDEP and the payment of compensation for this most egregious transition would be a start. But it is important to avoid the trap of focusing too narrowly on CDP; such reform must be just one element of a broader shift in policy approach to decolonisation and self-determination, which must accommodate the fundamental Indigenous economic right to live regionally and remotely and make a living differently.
https://insidestory.org.au/making-a-living-differently/

Note the underlined: the later CDP was a money-pinching 'work for the dole' scheme, completely different to the former successful CDEP.

Quote:

Aboriginal self-determination. Another word for 'Aborigine, help yourself' and we will assist.

Well... yes, or rather, "we will assist you to transition from hunter-gatherer economy, to participation in the modern economy" (which was what the CDEP was all about).

Quote:

But it doesn't work the other way around, and never has: giving Aborigines assistance and then waiting for them to help themselves with it.

Disproved by the CDEP, cruelly cancelled by the Conservative ideologue Howard.

Quote:

Work or walkabout?

Rather, a transition from the latter to the former.

Quote:

"Draconian attendance requirements engaging them five hours a day, five days a week, in work for the dole."

Yes, no-one is interested in work for the dole with its poverty level wages. The CDEP paid a living wage offering opportunities for self-determination and advancement.

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Frank

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #310 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:11pm

Karnal wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:40pm:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

whats not working is the arrogant attitude that people in suits in canberra can have any positive effect whatsoever on remote communities.

arrogance of the highest order.

like the cigar smoking, scotch drinking generals in the chateaus in WW1 dictating policy at the front line.

now its the avacado eating, latte swilling leftie intellectuals in their inner urban dinner parties.

disgraceful people

Oh, I know. That's why the suits are up in the NT in their Akubras, consulting on a plan the Boongs gave them.

Who knows? If the suits are nice enough, maybe the Boongs will ask for some flour, sugar and tobacco in lieu of wages and hand over their kids to the Welfare.

Disgraceful people, no?

Dear Aqua,
A tiny flash has illuminated my sombre life and tell you that God has given us a Turkish/Pakistani colleague whose avatar tells me that he is called Mustapha Kunt.We all feel like that, Aqua, now and then, especially when Spring is upon us, but few of us would care to put it on our avatars. Frankly, it takes a Turk/Paki to do that.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #311 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:17pm

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Hey did anyone else know that corruption is not a reason but merely an excuse Shocked

???!!!???

I know your stupidity is genetic but you really should try harder not to embarrass yourself so often.

You don't know jack sh1t. You never do!

is that your alter ego? If so then no, sorry I haven't met him.

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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John Smith

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #312 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:19pm

aquascoot wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

whats not working is the arrogant attitude that people in suits in canberra can have any positive effect whatsoever on remote communities.

arrogance of the highest order.

like the cigar smoking, scotch drinking generals in the chateaus in WW1 dictating policy at the front line.

now its the avacado eating, latte swilling leftie intellectuals in their inner urban dinner parties.

disgraceful people

shut up fool

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #313 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:20pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:17pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:27pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:18pm:

Lisa Jones wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:13pm:

Hey did anyone else know that corruption is not a reason but merely an excuse Shocked

???!!!???

I know your stupidity is genetic but you really should try harder not to embarrass yourself so often.

You don't know jack sh1t. You never do!

is that your alter ego? If so then no, sorry I haven't met him.

You've just proven how dumb and irrelevant you are. Again. Thanks 😂😆🤣

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Lisa Jones

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Re: The question about a voice will be asked...
Reply #314 - Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:21pm

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 3:19pm:

aquascoot wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:24pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:20pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:16pm:

John Smith wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 12:11pm:

Gnads wrote on Aug 2^nd, 2022 at 11:58am:

It wasn't for deflection at all.

It was as a previously tried & failed comparison.

it didn't fail. A period of corruption doesn't mean it failed otherwise every single large organization in the country would be said to have failed. Corruption was just the excuse that the bigots used to shut down the one decent voice the aborigines had at the time

It was dissolved because it failed to deliver to Aboriginal peoples the outcomes it was supposed to .....

the corrupt officials were just a part of that.

So you .... stop deflecting.

so change whats not working. Every other organization gets reworked from time to time.

whats not working is the arrogant attitude that people in suits in canberra can have any positive effect whatsoever on remote communities.

arrogance of the highest order.

like the cigar smoking, scotch drinking generals in the chateaus in WW1 dictating policy at the front line.

now its the avacado eating, latte swilling leftie intellectuals in their inner urban dinner parties.

disgraceful people

shut up fool

Stop abusing yourself fool! Actually on second thoughts...if masochism is your thing ....

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If I let myself be bought then I am no longer free.

HYPATIA - Greek philosopher, mathematician and astronomer (370 - 415)

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Poll
Question: Will you vote for a separate Aboriginal Voice in Parliament?
YES 11 (28.9%) NO 27 (71.1%) Total votes: 38 « Created by: Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM on: Jul 30^th, 2022 at 7:27pm »