Australian Politics Forum - So many now dying suddenly

greggerypeccary Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 152081 Gender:	Re: So many now dying suddenly Reply #495 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:10pm A deadly, highly contagious pandemic hits the world and the window lickers scream "Why are more people dying?" Lol
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Carl D Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 10889 Rivervale, Perth Gender:	Re: So many now dying suddenly Reply #496 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:15pm greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:10pm: A deadly, highly contagious pandemic hits the world and the window lickers scream "Why are more people dying?" Lol It's either the vaccines or Jewish space lasers.
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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16780 Gender:	Re: So many now dying suddenly Reply #497 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:16pm greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:10pm: A deadly, highly contagious pandemic hits the world and the window lickers scream "Why are more people dying?" Lol They're asking why people are dying in statistically significant excess numbers who did not die of, or with, covid.
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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #498 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 8:02am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 5:16am:

"no evidence mrna vaccine is responsible for britains EXCESS 30,000 HEART DEATHS."

Of course there isn't - no government is searching for it (or not releasing any information on findings).

There's no evidence your lost car keys are behind the couch if you don't look there.

Not releasing any information, eh? Here's one from the Anglosphere.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-heart-co...

But you're right, Meister, the government didn't release it.

DEEP STATE !!!

All the more reason for the state to conduct an investigation.

Senior politicians and chief medicos have assured us that the vaccine is safe, so there should be no fear of a revelation.

Just so. Study after study.

Quote:

A 2022 study of UK Biobank members, published in the British Medical Journal’s Heart, found non-hospitalized COVID-19 cases had a 2x risk of cardiovascular death (here). “This increased to 8.8x for those with primary hospitalized COVID-19 and 14.6x for secondary hospitalized COVID-19 within the next year or so, with most of the deaths occurring within 100 days of infection,” said Professor Jeffrey Morris, the director of biostatistics at the University of Pennsylvania, who spoke to Reuters for a prior check about vaccines and cardiovascular health (here).

Another study published in 2022 by PLOS medicine found acute COVID-19 was associated with a 5.8x increased risk of cardiovascular disease, including a 6.4x increased risk of atrial arrythmias in the month after infection. This decreased to 1.49x in 5-12 weeks (here).

Reuters has addressed similar claims linking COVID-19 vaccines with excess mortality (here, here and here), cardiac arrests (here, here and here), and other heart issues.

Dr Alison Cave, Chief Safety Office for the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), told Reuters via email: “Following a careful assessment of the available data, we concluded that the evidence does not support an association between the COVID-19 vaccines and an increased risk of cardiac related death. This conclusion has been supported by the independent Commission on Human Medicines’ COVID-19 Vaccine expert advisory group.”

What do they show?

Quote:

“It is likely that external factors, such as sustained bottlenecks in access to and delivery of NHS services, are the main contributors to the number of extra heart and circulatory deaths we continue to sadly see,” the report said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths-idUSL1N3490M3

I.e, an overburdened health system is responsible for the rise in heart attacks. Would you like any studies from outside the Anglosphere?

It might be good to do a compare and contrast, no? Just to be sure.

Would you like us to find some reports in the fake news media too?

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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #499 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:47pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 12:29am:

Until there is an investigation into the causes of excess deaths, no state or health authority can make any claim with confidence that the mRNA vaccines are not a contributing factor.

This is true.

Could it be alien DNA from the astral plane? A number of people are saying this.

It's okay though. Take your hydroxychloraquine and have a nice rest, dear. Doctor's orders, innit.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #500 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:54pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm:

Quote:

“It is likely that external factors, such as sustained bottlenecks in access to and delivery of NHS services, are the main contributors to the number of extra heart and circulatory deaths we continue to sadly see,” the report said.

I'd bet that was a contributing factor.

When they conducted the autopsies, did they report the numbers of those who died who had spike proteins clustered in the damaged sites of a damaged organ?

It would be a statistically significant and concerning number if 1 in 500 died of an immunological overreaction to the mRNA spike protein. However, it can be easily buried in the 'other factors' category.

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MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 16780 Gender:	Re: So many now dying suddenly Reply #501 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:56pm Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm: I.e, an overburdened health system is responsible for the rise in heart attacks. Would you like any studies from outside the Anglosphere? And they know this conclusively because?
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aquascoot

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #502 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 3:50pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 8:02am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 5:16am:

"no evidence mrna vaccine is responsible for britains EXCESS 30,000 HEART DEATHS."

Of course there isn't - no government is searching for it (or not releasing any information on findings).

There's no evidence your lost car keys are behind the couch if you don't look there.

Not releasing any information, eh? Here's one from the Anglosphere.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-heart-co...

But you're right, Meister, the government didn't release it.

DEEP STATE !!!

All the more reason for the state to conduct an investigation.

Senior politicians and chief medicos have assured us that the vaccine is safe, so there should be no fear of a revelation.

Just so. Study after study.

Quote:

A 2022 study of UK Biobank members, published in the British Medical Journal’s Heart, found non-hospitalized COVID-19 cases had a 2x risk of cardiovascular death (here). “This increased to 8.8x for those with primary hospitalized COVID-19 and 14.6x for secondary hospitalized COVID-19 within the next year or so, with most of the deaths occurring within 100 days of infection,” said Professor Jeffrey Morris, the director of biostatistics at the University of Pennsylvania, who spoke to Reuters for a prior check about vaccines and cardiovascular health (here).

Another study published in 2022 by PLOS medicine found acute COVID-19 was associated with a 5.8x increased risk of cardiovascular disease, including a 6.4x increased risk of atrial arrythmias in the month after infection. This decreased to 1.49x in 5-12 weeks (here).

Reuters has addressed similar claims linking COVID-19 vaccines with excess mortality (here, here and here), cardiac arrests (here, here and here), and other heart issues.

Dr Alison Cave, Chief Safety Office for the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), told Reuters via email: “Following a careful assessment of the available data, we concluded that the evidence does not support an association between the COVID-19 vaccines and an increased risk of cardiac related death. This conclusion has been supported by the independent Commission on Human Medicines’ COVID-19 Vaccine expert advisory group.”

What do they show?

Quote:

“It is likely that external factors, such as sustained bottlenecks in access to and delivery of NHS services, are the main contributors to the number of extra heart and circulatory deaths we continue to sadly see,” the report said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths-idUSL1N3490M3

I.e, an overburdened health system is responsible for the rise in heart attacks. Would you like any studies from outside the Anglosphere?

It might be good to do a compare and contrast, no? Just to be sure.

Would you like us to find some reports in the fake news media too?

bottlenecks in the NHS.

yes i heard the minister for health say the increased heart attacks were due to people not getting their blood pressure and cholesterol measured during the pandemic.

now, would he like to explain why the teenagers and 20 to 40 yo's have seen the exact same rates of excess deaths.

how many 20 yo's do you know on a cholesterol drug Roll Eyes

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Carl D

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Rivervale, Perth
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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #503 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 8:15pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:47pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:06pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 12:29am:

Until there is an investigation into the causes of excess deaths, no state or health authority can make any claim with confidence that the mRNA vaccines are not a contributing factor.

This is true.

Could it be alien DNA from the astral plane? A number of people are saying this.

It's okay though. Take your hydroxychloraquine and have a nice rest, dear. Doctor's orders, innit.

And remember to put on a pair of these.

aquascoot could do with some as well.

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** Repeat Covid infections exercise our immune system in the same way that repeat concussions exercise our brain **

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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #504 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 8:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:56pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm:

I.e, an overburdened health system is responsible for the rise in heart attacks. Would you like any studies from outside the Anglosphere?

And they know this conclusively because?

Because, according to Dr Alison Cave, Chief Safety Office for the UK Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA):

Quote:

“the evidence does not support an association between the COVID-19 vaccines and an increased risk of cardiac related death. This conclusion has been supported by the independent Commission on Human Medicines’ COVID-19 Vaccine expert advisory group.”

This conclusion is supported by all the other studies conducted throughout the Anglosphere in the cited reference. Feel free to review the links provided. Feel free to read the links in all the media reports provided. Feel free to review the links to the studies provided by them, conducted both within and outside the Anglosphere.

And feel free to differ.

You may do this conclusively if you wish. You haven't done so yet.

Why do you think that is?

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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #505 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:04pm

aquascoot wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 3:50pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 2:43pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:57pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 1:38pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 8:02am:

aquascoot wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 5:16am:

"no evidence mrna vaccine is responsible for britains EXCESS 30,000 HEART DEATHS."

Of course there isn't - no government is searching for it (or not releasing any information on findings).

There's no evidence your lost car keys are behind the couch if you don't look there.

Not releasing any information, eh? Here's one from the Anglosphere.

https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/new-study-updates-evidence-on-rare-heart-co...

But you're right, Meister, the government didn't release it.

DEEP STATE !!!

All the more reason for the state to conduct an investigation.

Senior politicians and chief medicos have assured us that the vaccine is safe, so there should be no fear of a revelation.

Just so. Study after study.

Quote:

A 2022 study of UK Biobank members, published in the British Medical Journal’s Heart, found non-hospitalized COVID-19 cases had a 2x risk of cardiovascular death (here). “This increased to 8.8x for those with primary hospitalized COVID-19 and 14.6x for secondary hospitalized COVID-19 within the next year or so, with most of the deaths occurring within 100 days of infection,” said Professor Jeffrey Morris, the director of biostatistics at the University of Pennsylvania, who spoke to Reuters for a prior check about vaccines and cardiovascular health (here).

Another study published in 2022 by PLOS medicine found acute COVID-19 was associated with a 5.8x increased risk of cardiovascular disease, including a 6.4x increased risk of atrial arrythmias in the month after infection. This decreased to 1.49x in 5-12 weeks (here).

Reuters has addressed similar claims linking COVID-19 vaccines with excess mortality (here, here and here), cardiac arrests (here, here and here), and other heart issues.

Dr Alison Cave, Chief Safety Office for the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), told Reuters via email: “Following a careful assessment of the available data, we concluded that the evidence does not support an association between the COVID-19 vaccines and an increased risk of cardiac related death. This conclusion has been supported by the independent Commission on Human Medicines’ COVID-19 Vaccine expert advisory group.”

What do they show?

Quote:

“It is likely that external factors, such as sustained bottlenecks in access to and delivery of NHS services, are the main contributors to the number of extra heart and circulatory deaths we continue to sadly see,” the report said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-excessdeaths-idUSL1N3490M3

I.e, an overburdened health system is responsible for the rise in heart attacks. Would you like any studies from outside the Anglosphere?

It might be good to do a compare and contrast, no? Just to be sure.

Would you like us to find some reports in the fake news media too?

bottlenecks in the NHS.

yes i heard the minister for health say the increased heart attacks were due to people not getting their blood pressure and cholesterol measured during the pandemic.

now, would he like to explain why the teenagers and 20 to 40 yo's have seen the exact same rates of excess deaths.

how many 20 yo's do you know on a cholesterol drug Roll Eyes

None. How many articles have you directly quoted on hospital waiting lists clogged by covid lockdowns?

That's a question.

There's a "noble Gurkha" over in Pakistan ever so grateful for your generous donation of a syringe-full of Astra Zeneca, yes?

Hopefully, his kids will be getting two bowls a day. That's the "noble capitalist" for you, no?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #506 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:28pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:04pm:

None. How many articles have you directly quoted on hospital waiting lists clogged by covid lockdowns?

No one's arguing that hospital waiting lists aren't a contributing cause of excess deaths.

Only a full investigation will reveal, with the maximal confidence possible, the list of actual contributing factors, as opposed to having an opinion on it (which conveniently does not imply any liability for (criminal) negligence on the part of the state and the health services.

Given the first three vaccine shots were mandated under the threat of legal action and job loss for all who failed to comply, I'd say avoidance of liability at all costs is the primary focus of politicians and senior advising medicos.

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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #507 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 10:59pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:04pm:

None. How many articles have you directly quoted on hospital waiting lists clogged by covid lockdowns?

No one's arguing that hospital waiting lists aren't a contributing cause of excess deaths.

Only a full investigation will reveal, with the maximal confidence possible, the list of actual contributing factors, as opposed to having an opinion on it (which conveniently does not imply any liability for (criminal) negligence on the part of the state and the health services.

Given the first three vaccine shots were mandated under the threat of legal action and job loss for all who failed to comply, I'd say avoidance of liability at all costs is the primary focus of politicians and senior advising medicos.

Oh? You seem to be hard pressed to argue anything at all, Meister.

You're here to raise doubt, and that's okay.

What, exactly, are you doubting?

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #508 - Feb 4^th, 2023 at 11:22pm

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 10:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:04pm:

None. How many articles have you directly quoted on hospital waiting lists clogged by covid lockdowns?

No one's arguing that hospital waiting lists aren't a contributing cause of excess deaths.

Only a full investigation will reveal, with the maximal confidence possible, the list of actual contributing factors, as opposed to having an opinion on it (which conveniently does not imply any liability for (criminal) negligence on the part of the state and the health services.

Given the first three vaccine shots were mandated under the threat of legal action and job loss for all who failed to comply, I'd say avoidance of liability at all costs is the primary focus of politicians and senior advising medicos.

Oh? You seem to be hard pressed to argue anything at all, Meister.

You're here to raise doubt, and that's okay.

What, exactly, are you doubting?

That'd be because I'm not arguing. I'm asking for a full investigation into the contributing causes of excess deaths - not opinions on what some medicos think is likely the cause(s).

Given vaccine administration was a common event across the world (particularly in the first world), the most politicised and legislated for, it should be one of the most important components of an investigation.

As the pandemic response is now under review in state's around the world for posterity, it should include a full investigation into the vaccines' mandate and whether those legislative decisions around mandating a vaccine justifiably ignored the unknown risks experimental vaccines posed., or whether they were reckless. (I note the TGA approved psilocybin and MDMA for depression and PTSD but with strict oversight on their use - as they should be - not so with the vaccines which were rushed through clinical trials with the TGA approving their emergency use and their rushed trial).

Given the 4th and 5th boosters are not mandatory, is a possible indication that governments and senior medicos are toning down their rhetoric commensurate with their declining sense of urgency (or for other reasons). It would be good to know why via an investigation - maybe a royal commission sooner rather than later.

As usual, the best place to start is with the question cui bono? Then maybe: Was there a point when senior medicos suspected there could be a price to pay for rushed vaccine production?

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Big Donger

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Re: So many now dying suddenly
Reply #509 - Feb 5^th, 2023 at 12:58am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 11:22pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 10:59pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:28pm:

Big Donger wrote on Feb 4^th, 2023 at 9:04pm:

None. How many articles have you directly quoted on hospital waiting lists clogged by covid lockdowns?

No one's arguing that hospital waiting lists aren't a contributing cause of excess deaths.

Only a full investigation will reveal, with the maximal confidence possible, the list of actual contributing factors, as opposed to having an opinion on it (which conveniently does not imply any liability for (criminal) negligence on the part of the state and the health services.

Given the first three vaccine shots were mandated under the threat of legal action and job loss for all who failed to comply, I'd say avoidance of liability at all costs is the primary focus of politicians and senior advising medicos.

Oh? You seem to be hard pressed to argue anything at all, Meister.

You're here to raise doubt, and that's okay.

What, exactly, are you doubting?

That'd be because I'm not arguing. I'm asking for a full investigation into the contributing causes of excess deaths - not opinions on what some medicos think is likely the cause(s).

Given vaccine administration was a common event across the world (particularly in the first world), the most politicised and legislated for, it should be one of the most important components of an investigation.

As the pandemic response is now under review in state's around the world for posterity, it should include a full investigation into the vaccines' mandate and whether those legislative decisions around mandating a vaccine justifiably ignored the unknown risks experimental vaccines posed., or whether they were reckless. (I note the TGA approved psilocybin and MDMA for depression and PTSD but with strict oversight on their use - as they should be - not so with the vaccines which were rushed through clinical trials with the TGA approving their emergency use and their rushed trial).

Given the 4th and 5th boosters are not mandatory, is a possible indication that governments and senior medicos are toning down their rhetoric commensurate with their declining sense of urgency (or for other reasons). It would be good to know why via an investigation - maybe a royal commission sooner rather than later.

As usual, the best place to start is with the question cui bono? Then maybe: Was there a point when senior medicos suspected there could be a price to pay for rushed vaccine production?

Ah.

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