Australian Politics Forum - Victims of communism

Frank

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #240 - Jun 20^th, 2022 at 1:37pm

The Roman Empire was socialist! Yay!!

The system supplying Rome with grain and other foodstuffs came to be known as the annona. The annona developed into a central feature of the relationship between the emperor and the capital’s inhabitants, as is shown by the coins that were issued from the start of the imperial period onwards. The personification of Annona became a central figure in imperial coinage from the 1st century onwards.

But the Soviet Union and China in the 1950s and 1960s were NOT socialists!! Double Yay!

DURING THE TWENTIETH CENTURY more people died of famine than in any other century in human history.¹ When we hear the word “famine,” pictures of starving African babies may come to mind. However, it would be more consistent with the historical facts if we were to think of starving peasants from the Soviet Union and China as well, for as Stephen Devereux estimates, 80 percent of the 70.1–80.4 million victims of famine in the twentieth century died in these two countries.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt1bhknwh

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Frank

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #241 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 2:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 5:37pm:

Ah.. so now you need to define socialism and communism, as has been pointed out to you previously.

eg, Marx sought collective well-being; the US government , recognizing the inadequacies of free market capitalism, has been forced to introduce food stamps....

Quote:

TGD, do you feel any sympathy for all the victims of communism?

Addressed above. I'm a Marxist......but your definitions are not mine, nor the present CCP's.

The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are. Never under any circumstances admit that his success may be due to his own efforts, to the productive contribution he has made to the whole community. Always attribute his success to the exploitation, the cheating, the more or less open robbery of others. Never under any circumstances admit that your own failure may be owing to your own weakness, or that the failure of anyone else may be due to his own defects - his laziness, incompetence, improvidence, or stupidity.
Henry Hazlitt

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #242 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 3:14pm

Frank wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 2:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 5:37pm:

Ah.. so now you need to define socialism and communism, as has been pointed out to you previously.

eg, Marx sought collective well-being; the US government , recognizing the inadequacies of free market capitalism, has been forced to introduce food stamps....

Quote:

TGD, do you feel any sympathy for all the victims of communism?

Addressed above. I'm a Marxist......but your definitions are not mine, nor the present CCP's.

The whole gospel of Karl Marx can be summed up in a single sentence: Hate the man who is better off than you are.

Rubbish. The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

....still relevant today, given the ravages of global neoliberalism which is relentlessly transferring profits from wages to capital.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51155 At my desk.	Re: Victims of communism Reply #243 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 5:55pm Which China do you prefer: the China that starved 50 million of it's own citizens to death in an effort to distribute food equally, or the China that is lifting people out of poverty with the most rapid transition to capitalism in world history?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #244 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:23pm

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 5:55pm:

Which China do you prefer: the China that starved 50 million of it's own citizens to death in an effort to distribute food equally, or the China that is lifting people out of poverty with the most rapid transition to capitalism in world history?

This is what I prefer, as stated:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

....still relevant today, given the ravages of global neoliberalism which is relentlessly transferring profits from wages to capital.

You self-admitted fraud***, not capable of addressing the point made (***see 'privatization' thread #24).

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freediver

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #245 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm

Quote:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

What about their lives? Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

What do you think is more important, pleasant but empty-headed mantras, or facing reality?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Frank Gold Member Online Australian Politics Posts: 52527 Gender:	Re: Victims of communism Reply #246 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 8:56pm Under Capitalism, man envies man. Under Socialism, it's the other way around.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #247 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 3:07pm

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Quote:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

What about their lives? Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

What do you think is more important, pleasant but empty-headed mantras, or facing reality?

The point was about 'gospels" ie vision; how to achieve the vision is another matter.

Entrenched poverty - and living paycheck to paycheck in a rich nation - is NEVER acceptable.

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freediver

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #248 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 3:07pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Quote:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

What about their lives? Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

What do you think is more important, pleasant but empty-headed mantras, or facing reality?

The point was about 'gospels" ie vision; how to achieve the vision is another matter.

Entrenched poverty - and living paycheck to paycheck in a rich nation - is NEVER acceptable.

Ah. If you actually want to achieve that vision, try capitalism. It is working for the CCP.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6412 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Victims of communism Reply #249 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 1:08pm https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVzTTqiXEAAtWcn?format=png&name=small
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #250 - Jul 30^th, 2022 at 2:46pm

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 3:07pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Quote:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

What about their lives? Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

What do you think is more important, pleasant but empty-headed mantras, or facing reality?

The point was about 'gospels" ie vision; how to achieve the vision is another matter.

Entrenched poverty - and living paycheck to paycheck in a rich nation - is NEVER acceptable.

Ah. If you actually want to achieve that vision, try capitalism. It is working for the CCP.

Not entirely; unbridled market capitalism creates rent-seekers who caused the Evergrande collapse.

Government should ban housing for rent-seekers, because ...you know... "houses are for living in". Undecided

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freediver

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #251 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 9:13am

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 30^th, 2022 at 2:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 3:07pm:

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Quote:

The Marx 'gospel': "workers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your chains".

What about their lives? Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

What do you think is more important, pleasant but empty-headed mantras, or facing reality?

The point was about 'gospels" ie vision; how to achieve the vision is another matter.

Entrenched poverty - and living paycheck to paycheck in a rich nation - is NEVER acceptable.

Ah. If you actually want to achieve that vision, try capitalism. It is working for the CCP.

Not entirely; unbridled market capitalism creates rent-seekers who caused the Evergrande collapse.

Government should ban housing for rent-seekers, because ...you know... "houses are for living in". Undecided

The CCP is achieving the most rapid transition to capitalism in world history. You don't seem to realise, but every time you brag about them lifting people out of poverty, you are plugging capitalism. You complain about the Evergrande collapse and people losing money, but when the CCP was actually communist, they starved 50 million Chinese to death by trying to distribute food equally.

So again, which do you prefer, a pile of Chinese corpses 50 million high, or a bit of volatility on the stock market?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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John Smith

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #252 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 9:56am

freediver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2022 at 6:31pm:

Communist governments have been the biggest killers of their own citizens in history, through a combination of malicious intent, sheer incompetence, and the inevitable poverty that results from communism.

tell that to all the dead Africans who've died over the years, either through starvation, disease or war, so that various 'capitalist' businesses can chase the mighty dollar Roll Eyes

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 51155 At my desk.	Re: Victims of communism Reply #253 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 10:12am Are you trying to say the facts are irrelevant John?
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John Smith

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Re: Victims of communism
Reply #254 - Jul 31^st, 2022 at 10:19am

freediver wrote on Jul 31^st, 2022 at 10:12am:

Are you trying to say the facts are irrelevant John?

No, I'm just wondering why in your score card of deaths due to political/ economic ideology, you have made no mention of all the dead Africans that have died over the years ?

There are about 25 000 Africans dying a day from hunger alone, and they have been for decades. Don't those deaths count?

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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