Australian Politics Forum - a green future means more mines

thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 15656 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #90 - May 28^th, 2022 at 5:08pm lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 4:42pm: Me what? So so far you have lied about Bushfires, lied about floods and lied about droughts... but somehow we should believe you? You think you can fraudulently avoid a debate in that manner? Reply to #89, or be exposed as a fraud.
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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #91 - May 28^th, 2022 at 5:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

Of course, that's why Sir Thomas Playford nationalized the energy sector in SA, so the community could have cheap electricity , rather than supporting the profits of the price-gouging Adelaide Electricity Company.

And now being gouged by the east coast network. One hour on a Sunday is not proof of concept. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

BS. the community's industry is based on cheap electricity - with great advantages to all - because private price gougers can't extort their profits from the community.

And yet there is NO industrialised are where it has been proven. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

All "on the government's tit'...

And where will the money come from? Oh that's right MMT. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

??...since the beginning of time (you are a confused bunny...)

Exactly. But it was your post "Or face ongoing wars, poverty, and ecological collapse, "
So nothing to do with energy at all. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

But MMT (which is gaining traction for the first time in tertiary institutions) will enable gvernments to create the new sustainable peaceful world.

Oh dear now MMT has the same power economically as the magic molecule. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

No; in the oceans, where plastic pollution is endangering marine life, and on land where poisonous wastes and deforestation are causing environmental degradation.

You mean the great ocean garbage patch? The one with micro-plastics? Grin

Or perhaps T=the Greens Germany plan for the forest? Roll Eyes

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #92 - May 28^th, 2022 at 5:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:02pm:

So so far you have lied about Bushfires, lied about floods and lied about droughts... but somehow we should believe you? Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

[/quote]
Oh dear. Grin

But maybe you want more on SA electricity prices?

State Average Electricity Usage Rates (per kWh)
VIC 19.77c/kWh
QLD 19.97c/kWh
NSW 22.74c/kWh
SA 31.52c/kWh"

https://www.canstarblue.com.au/electricity/electricity-costs-kwh/

Oops. Grin

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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #93 - May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm

lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:13pm:

And now being gouged by the east coast network. One hour on a Sunday is not proof of concept. Roll Eyes

"Australia’s electricity and gas network businesses are held in public and private ownership.
• 100 per cent privately owned electricity networks: Victoria, South Australia
• 100 per cent government owned electricity networks: Tasmania, Western Australia,
Northern Territory and Queensland
• In NSW, one electricity network is privately owned, two are 50.4 per cent
privately owned and one is fully government owned. The Australian Capital
Territory’s electricity network is a joint public and privately owned entity.
• Australia’s gas distribution providers are all privately owned, with the exception of
the ACT’s, which is half government owned.

Quote:

And yet there is NO industrialised are where it has been proven. Roll Eyes

Failing MMT, the government will need to outline the plan enable transition to renewables, so private companies will invest in renewables. We will see how that works, in the following years and COP meetings etc.

Quote:

And where will the money come from? Oh that's right MMT. Grin

That's right; government COULD be authorized to spend money into existence, to buy the fossil industry and transition to green. But the world will stumble along with profit-seeking private sector investment ..until it proves to be inadequate for the transitioning task.

Quote:

Exactly. But it was your post "Or face ongoing wars, poverty, and ecological collapse, "

You didn't see the word "ongoing"?

Quote:

So nothing to do with energy at all. Grin

you ARE a confused bunny

1. ...everyone from Attenborough down know plastic pollution in the oceans and poisonous pollution on land is ....oh never mind.

2. Energy poverty is at the root of war and poverty.

3. the filthfy fossil industry also poisons the enviroment

Quote:

Oh dear now MMT has the same power economically as the magic molecule. Grin

Eradication of war and poverty, and establishment of universal sustainable prosperity, IS only a matter of resource mobilization (in both the public and private sector) , not money; if that's "magic", the trick is very obvious, except perhaps to profit seeking flat earth 'invisible hand' market ideologues like yourself, who want to reserve money creation powers to the private sector, for your own benefit.

Quote:

You mean the great ocens garbage patch? The one with micro-plastics?

Yes:

"Our precious whales, turtles and seabirds need your help. With 8 million tons of plastic dumped into our oceans every year, our marine life is swallowing more plastic than ever — and it’s killing them.

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #94 - May 28^th, 2022 at 5:56pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

• 100 per cent privately owned electricity networks: Victoria, South Australia

So Playford failed. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

Failing MMT, the government will need to outline the plan enable transition to renewables, so private companies will invest in renewables.

But if renewables are so cheapo why haven't they already done so? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

We will see how that works, in the following years and COP meetings etc.

Oh dear. Try it, if it fails too bad. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

That's right; government COULD be authorized to spend money into existence, to buy the fossil industry and transition to green. But the world will stumble along with profit-seeking private sector investment ..until it proves to be inadequate for the transitioning task.

Yes. Remind me again why we should trust you? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

You didn't see the word "ongoing"?

You mean there are currently no ongoing wars? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

1. ...everyone from Attenborough down know plastic pollution in the oceans and poisonous pollution on land is ....oh never mind.

You mean that Attenborough who lied about walruses falling to their death because climate? And not because they were chased by those cute'n'cuddly poley bears? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

2. Energy poverty is at the root of war and poverty.

Every war? And yet you want the Africans to have an at best 2nd class energy. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

Eradication of war and poverty, and establishment of universal sustainable prosperity, IS only a matter of resource mobilization (in both the public and private sector) , not money; if that's "magic", the trick is very obvious, except perhaps to profit seeking flat earth 'invisible hand' market ideologues like yourself, who want to reserve money creation powers to the private sector, for your own benefit.

So you say. And tell us why we should trust a liar like you? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:43pm:

Yes:

"Our precious whales, turtles and seabirds need your help. With 8 million tons of plastic dumped into our oceans every year, our marine life is swallowing more plastic than ever — and it’s killing them.

Micro-plastics have not been shown to kill anything. That they have been ingested is a far cry from killing them. Roll Eyes

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #95 - May 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:56pm: Micro-plastics have not been shown to kill anything. That they have been ingested is a far cry from killing them. Roll Eyes in that case you won't mind eating them if I send you a bowl or two, will you?
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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #96 - May 28^th, 2022 at 7:14pm

John Smith wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

in that case you won't mind eating them if I send you a bowl or two, will you?

poor Guido. Can't even produce any evidence. So another evidence free troll. Grin

Edit: "Microplastics found in human blood for first time"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human...

Nothing there about killing humans either. Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: May 28^th, 2022 at 7:27pm by lee »

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John Smith

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #97 - May 28^th, 2022 at 8:01pm

lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 7:14pm:

John Smith wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 6:00pm:

in that case you won't mind eating them if I send you a bowl or two, will you?

poor Guido. Can't even produce any evidence. So another evidence free troll. Grin

Edit: "Microplastics found in human blood for first time"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/24/microplastics-found-in-human...

Nothing there about killing humans either. Roll Eyes

you didn't answer the question Roll Eyes

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21523 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #98 - May 28^th, 2022 at 8:18pm John Smith wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 8:01pm: you didn't answer the question Yes please three truckloads. 78 Household st Household WA 6810
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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #99 - May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm

lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 5:56pm:

So Playford failed. Roll Eyes

No, neoliberals led by classical market ideologues who misunderstood the causes of the 70's stagflation insisted on erroneous privatization dogma (as you did recently, rejecting the "govt's tit").

Re SA: The Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) was the South Australian Government-owned monopoly vertically integrated electricity provider from 1946 until its privatisation in 1999.

Quote:

But if renewables are so cheapo why haven't they already done so? Roll Eyes

Because private companies are hooked on the drug of profits, and won't invest in new transmission (contemptuously referred as "gold plating" by the privatization stooges) and new storage, when profits are easily more extracted from existing fossil power plants.

Quote:

Oh dear. Try it, if it fails too bad. Grin

You are displaying your confusion regularly now; the world is committed to 100% renewables by 2050/60.

My point is the inability of the private sector to reach that goal will be shown sooner or later.

Quote:

Yes. Remind me again why we should trust you? Grin

Irrelevant; what the world agrees must be done, will be done one way or another (deadline 2050/60)

Quote:

You mean there are currently no ongoing wars? Roll Eyes

I mean war has always existed (in a world of 'scarce' resources) and will continue until we mobilize resources to ensure universal access to essentials first (on the public sector's "tit") and after that, discretionary spending determined by "invisble hand" private sector markets.

Quote:

You mean that Attenborough who lied about walruses falling to their death because climate? And not because they were chased by those cute'n'cuddly poley bears? Grin

Change of topic from environmental degradation to natural predation; I presume Attenbororough saw a relationship between the two processes (man-made environmental pollution (and retreating ice), and nature's predation.

Speaking of "cute and cuddly": your blind Conservative survival of the fittest "rights" , neoliberal ideology is the cause of war and poverty.

Now both in Texas and Ukraine - the "right" of civilians to bear military grade weapons for 'self-defense' (that's working well in the US); and the "right" of nations to settle disputes in war. Neanderthals, all of you; extinction awaits, in the age of MAD.

Quote:

Every war?

Yes, boils down to disputes over resources.

Quote:

And yet you want the Africans to have an at best 2nd class energy. Grin

More of your ongoing confusion; your vicious self-interested Conservative 'survival of the fittest' ideology fails to see the reason for African poverty is exploitation of African resources by greedy Western companies beginning in the days of colonialism.

So now its our turn to provide Africa with free renewables technology. The conservative flat earth neoliberal economists at the upcoming COP meetings will have to face that fact soon enough, blaming the 3rd world for its poverty will be exposed for the vicious lie it is.

Quote:

So you say. And tell us why we should trust a liar like you? Roll Eyes

because your vicious 'survival of the fittest' "rights" neoliberal ideology, on full display in this debate, shows how this blind ideology - nothing less than the 'law of the jungle' - turns truth into lies, and supports unsustainable capitalist 'business as usual', with its environmental degradation.

Quote:

Micro-plastics have not been shown to kill anything. That they have been ingested is a far cry from killing them. Roll Eyes

...just like tobacco smoking, or pollution from burning of fossils, has not been shown to be detrimental to health?

Be careful....

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jun/30/climate-crimes-oil-and-gas-e...
June , 2021.
" The environmentalist Bill McKibben once characterized the fossil fuel industry’s behavior as “the most consequential cover-up in US history”. And now for the first time in decades, the lawsuits chart a path toward public accountability that climate activists say has the potential to rival big tobacco’s downfall after it concealed the real dangers of smoking.

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #100 - May 29^th, 2022 at 12:31pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

No, neoliberals led by classical market ideologues who misunderstood the causes of the 70's stagflation insisted on erroneous privatization dogma (as you did recently, rejecting the "govt's tit").

Re SA: The Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) was the South Australian Government-owned monopoly vertically integrated electricity provider from 1946 until its privatisation in 1999.

So in the long run Playford failed. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Because private companies are hooked on the drug of profits, and won't invest in new transmission (contemptuously referred as "gold plating" by the privatization stooges) and new storage, when profits are easily more extracted from existing fossil power plants.

So renewables don't generate a profit? Oh dear. Maybe that's why Warren Buffet said the only reason to invest in the was because of the subsidies. Grin

Actually "gold plating" was used against the power infrastructure saying they were over doing it.

"Against this backdrop, and mounting concern that the power companies are “gold-plating” their networks – because the more money they spend, the more money they make - AER chairman Andrew Reeves told BusinessDay last week that the energy regulator was looking at whether SP Ausnet might have built its Melbourne power terminal more cheaply elsewhere."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/gold-plating-the-power-grid-20120705-21iv5.html

So just another lie to add to your litany. You can't help it can you?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

You are displaying your confusion regularly now; the world is committed to 100% renewables by 2050/60.

Nope. That is another lie. The world is committed to "net zero" by 2050 r 60 depending if you are Oriental or not. So that emissions minus sequestration is zero.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

My point is the inability of the private sector to reach that goal will be shown sooner or later.

The inability to reach net zero is not even debatable. It won't work. (See I can make claims too).

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Irrelevant; what the world agrees must be done, will be done one way or another (deadline 2050/60)

Nope see above

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

I mean war has always existed (in a world of 'scarce' resources) and will continue until we mobilize resources to ensure universal access to essentials first (on the public sector's "tit") and after that, discretionary spending determined by "invisble hand" private sector markets.

The world has universal access. You purchase what you want ... or not.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Change of topic from environmental degradation to natural predation; I presume Attenbororough saw a relationship between the two processes (man-made environmental pollution (and retreating ice), and nature's predation.

Attenbororough released two netflixes. One shouted that the walrus fel to their deaths because climate. The next netflix (using some the same footage from a drone) showed them chased over the cliff by the poley bears.

So Attenborough lied. Like you. So tell me again why I should believe proven liars?

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Speaking of "cute and cuddly": your blind Conservative survival of the fittest "rights" , neoliberal ideology is the cause of war and poverty.

So now Putin is of the far right? Or perhaps you mean China's Great Famine? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Now both in Texas and Ukraine - the "right" of civilians to bear military grade weapons for 'self-defense' (that's working well in the US); and the "right" of nations to settle disputes in war.

So people should not defend their own country with whatever is available? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

Yes, boils down to disputes over resources.

Even Boko Haram? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

More of your ongoing confusion; your vicious self-interested Conservative 'survival of the fittest' ideology fails to see the reason for African poverty is exploitation of African resources by greedy Western companies beginning in the days of colonialism.

And yet it is the neo-colonialists want to stop Africa from using their fossil fuel resources. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

The conservative flat earth neoliberal economists at the upcoming COP meetings will have to face that fact soon enough, blaming the 3rd world for its poverty will be exposed for the vicious lie it is.

COP27 to open early. "Who needs a getaway? We do" Grin

[thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

because your vicious 'survival of the fittest' "rights"

Doesn't even come close to answering why we should trust you. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

...just like tobacco smoking, or pollution from burning of fossils,

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #101 - May 29^th, 2022 at 12:38pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

...just like tobacco smoking, or pollution from burning of fossils, has not been shown to be detrimental to health?

Tobacco we have covered, there was evidence from autopsies. Fossil fuels Zip nada nothing no evidence from autopsies.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 10:08pm:

" The environmentalist Bill McKibben once characterized the fossil fuel industry’s behavior as “the most consequential cover-up in US history”. And now for the first time in decades, the lawsuits chart a path toward public accountability that climate activists say has the potential to rival big tobacco’s downfall after it concealed the real dangers of smoking.

Oh Bill McKibben and the Gurudian. That's priceless. Grin

Have a look at the court cases against Exxon etc. Nothing found. Even after paid activists were put into various State AG offices. And when it was found about these paid activists a number of States pulled out.

Please tell us what Exxon Knew in 1970's. Was it more or less than climate scientists? Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #102 - May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 12:31pm:

So in the long run Playford failed. Roll Eyes

No, neoliberalism won...which is proving to be the greatest catastrophe of our times, as interest rates, inflation, cost of living, and inequality, all rise, with entrenched poverty and increasing homelessness and the biggest housing bubble in the world.

Quote:

So renewables don't generate a profit? Oh dear. Maybe that's why Warren Buffet said the only reason to invest in the was because of the subsidies. Grin

Exactly right. Renewables are free after the infrastructure is built, that's why Warren isn't interested.

Quote:

Actually "gold plating" was used against the power infrastructure saying they were over doing it.

Now it's being fraudulently used - as you are here - to hinder the necessary grid upgrade (...heard today the Coalition had no plans to connect Snowy 2 to the grid...hopeless, if not downright evil.)

Quote:

"Against this backdrop, and mounting concern that the power companies are “gold-plating” their networks – because the more money they spend, the more money they make - AER chairman Andrew Reeves told BusinessDay last week that the energy regulator was looking at whether SP Ausnet might have built its Melbourne power terminal more cheaply elsewhere."

https://www.smh.com.au/business/gold-plating-the-power-grid-20120705-21iv5.html

Yes, that's your self interested private sector money grubbers for you, the whole sector should be nationalized ASAP, and a smart grid built, rather than a 'gold plated' one to gouge higher profits from consumers, for private companies.

Quote:

So just another lie to add to your litany. You can't help it can you?

Perhaps you can now see how your blind attachment to free market neoliberalism turns your brain into mash.....

Quote:

Nope. That is another lie. The world is committed to "net zero" by 2050 r 60 depending if you are Oriental or not. So that emissions minus sequestration is zero.

Allowing for the fact your brain is turned into mash by your flat earth mainstream neoliberal economics - a form of "brain damage" according to Hazel Henderson -; net zero is just that, sequestration or no sequestration.

Now economic CCS seems further away from reality than fusion power; but even so, the filthy fossil industry has to go, despite your refusal to admit the reality of fossil-caused damage to health.

Quote:

The inability to reach net zero is not even debatable. It won't work. (See I can make claims too).

As a matter of fact, Australia among all nations, with its vast renewables resources (cheap land, sun and wind) has an un-paralleled opportunity to transition to 100% renewables, AND become a renewables exporting
super power.

Cont

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #103 - May 29^th, 2022 at 7:33pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Exactly right. Renewables are free after the infrastructure is built, that's why Warren isn't interested.

Until it is time to renew them. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Now its being fraudulently used to hinder the necessary grid upgrade (...heard today the Coalition had no plans to connect Snowy 2 to the grid...hopeless, if not downright evil.)

Snowy 2 was never going to deliver the promises. You can't put the excess water to a smaller dam without releasing the water somewhere. It would take more power to pump the water uphill than it produces.

You failed to read this - https://theconversation.com/snowy-2-0-will-not-produce-nearly-as-much-electricit...

And also you need to read this -[url] https://theconversation.com/nsw-has-approved-snowy-2-0-here-are-six-reasons-why-
thats-a-bad-move-139112[/url]

Even the left wing The Conversation agrees it is a bad idea. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Yes, that's your self interested private sector money grubbers for you, the whole sector should be nationalized ASAP, and a smart grid built, rather than a 'gold plated' one built, to gouge higher profits from consumers, for private companies.

So you lied again You knew it wasn't about fossil fuel energy. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Perhaps you can now see how your blind attachment to free market neoliberalism turns your brain into mash.....

So you can't debunk what I said. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Allowing for the fact your brain is turned into mash by your flat earth mainstream neoliberal economics - a form of "brain damage" according to Hazel Henderson -; net zero is just that, sequestration or no sequestration.

So an economist not a scientist? Grin

But perhaps you can provide a link? We know you are a proven liar. Roll Eyes

This is what I found - "In order to return CO2 balance to pre-industrial levels, removals, in theory, would need to sequester more carbon than has been released by anthropogenic dismantling of natural systems through deforestation and land-use change AND all of the fossil carbon that has been emitted. That’s a tall order. "

https://quantis-intl.com/why-science-not-market-forces-must-shape-our-pathway-to...

You do realise pre-indistrial was the LIA? Crop failures and all.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

Now economic CCS seems further away from reality than fusion power; but even so, the filthy fossil industry has to go, despite your refusal to admit the reality of fossil-caused damage to health.

Perhaps you can provide this proof? You have so far failed to show a peer-reviewed paper supporting your claim.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 6:46pm:

As a matter of fact, Australia among all nations, with its vast renewables resources (cheap land, sun and wind)has an un-paralleled opportunity to transition to 100% renewables, AND become a renewables exporting
super power.

And that is all unsuported suppositional theory not fact. Roll Eyes

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #104 - May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am

lee wrote on May 29^th, 2022 at 7:33pm:

[quote]Until it is time to renew them. Roll Eyes

For Warren to be interested, he would need to have the entire intermittent global maintenance contract....and even then he would not be able to be able to compete with not for profit govt. maintenance.

Quote:

Snowy 2 was never going to deliver the promises. You can't put the excess water to a smaller dam without releasing the water somewhere. It would take more power to pump the water uphill than it produces.

Debated previously. Provision of excess renewabale power in the grid via rooftop solar + solar/wind farms means there will always be energy available "to pump the water uphill".

Quote:

You failed to read this - https://theconversation.com/snowy-2-0-will-not-produce-nearly-as-much-electricit...

And also you need to read this -[url] https://theconversation.com/nsw-has-approved-snowy-2-0-here-are-six-reasons-why-
thats-a-bad-move-139112[/url]

I read it months ago. The gist of the argument was there isn't sufficient coal generation available to power the scheme! Nice example of back to front reasoning...

Quote:

Even the left wing The Conversation agrees it is a bad idea. Roll Eyes

Nice try, no cigar. The Conversation, whether "LW" or not, is inhabited by 'brain-damaged' (I love it, thanks Hazel) mainstream neoliberal economists.

Quote:

So you lied again You knew it wasn't about fossil fuel energy. Roll Eyes

That's just your brain - unable to follow simple logic - damaged by neoliberal orthodoxy, again. The topic was the grid ("gold-plated"), not the fuel.

Quote:

So you can't debunk what I said. Grin

It's impossible to debunk a brain damaged ideologue; I carry on this debate assuming others who are not so afflicted can extract the truth from the debate for themselves

Quote:

So an economist not a scientist? ;

Oh dear: mobilization of a nation's resources requires knowledge of economics, yes, but economics is as much social study as mathematical science. .

Quote:

But perhaps you can provide a link? We know you are a proven liar. Roll Eyes

CCS is yet to be developed, OZ can run 100% on renewables with present technology (ANU study, already discussed in the "17 feet of snow " thread.

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This is what I found - "In order to return CO2 balance to pre-industrial levels, removals, in theory, would need to sequester more carbon than has been released by anthropogenic dismantling of natural systems through deforestation and land-use change AND all of the fossil carbon that has been emitted. That’s a tall order. "

https://quantis-intl.com/why-science-not-market-forces-must-shape-our-pathway-to...

"Tall order" but not impossible, so let's get to it; with reforestation plus decarbonization.

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You do realise pre-indistrial was the LIA? Crop failures and all.

and before that, temp changes during the roman empire, so?

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Perhaps you can provide this proof? You have so far failed to show a peer-reviewed paper supporting your claim.

Brain damage PLUS early onset dementia? I presented many articles in the '17 feet of snow' thread.

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And that is all unsuported suppositional theory not fact. Roll Eyes

Twiggy Forrest is roaring to go, having already won contracts from overseas customers for his green hydrogen, which much of the globe - without Oz's almost unlimited renewable resources - will require.

And which will enable Oz to replace filthy fossil exports with much more lucrative green hydrogen, green steel and green Aluminium.....plus renewables themselves (eg via undersea cable to Singapore).

Albo is enthusiastic, and - backed by a dozen Greens in the Senate, and a hefty cross-bench in the Reps even more enthusiastic than Labor, the sky is the limit.

Cheers.

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« Last Edit: May 30^th, 2022 at 1:53am by thegreatdivide »

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