Australian Politics Forum - a green future means more mines

lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #105 - May 30^th, 2022 at 1:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

For Warren to be interested, he would need to have the entire intermittent global maintenance contract....and even then he would not be able to be able to compete with not for profit govt. maintenance.

And Australia? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

Provision of excess renewabale power in the grid via rooftop solar + solar/wind farms means there will always be energy available "to pump the water uphill".

Nope. You still don't get it. Snowy 2 will not do what it is supposed to do. That was supposed to be the back stop because batteries can't do it. Think storms and cyclones clouds for days little rays of sunsshine low output fro PV. Wind drought or excess wind no wind turbine power. You still haven't said how many times capacity would be needed to fulfill your fantasies. 6 times? 8 times? current levels of power? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

I read it months ago. The gist of the argument was there isn't sufficient coal generation available to power the scheme!

Another lie. You just can't help yourself can you?

"For Snowy 2.0 to produce the 350 GWh of electricity claimed, the top dam must be full and all that water released through the system. But replenishing the top dam after this event would take many months of pumping water from elsewhere in the system, and use up 40% more electricity than was originally generated. "

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #106 - May 30^th, 2022 at 2:03pm

"For at least the next couple of decades, analysis suggests Snowy 2.0 will store coal-fired electricity, not renewable electricity. "

Because the maths won't work as above. Noting to do with coal availability.

So another lie by deception. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

The Conversation, whether "LW" or not, is inhabited by 'brain-damaged' (I love it, thanks Hazel) mainstream neoliberal economists.

So you are one of the few who know? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

That's just your brain - unable to follow simple logic - damaged by neoliberal orthodoxy, again. The topic was the grid ("gold-plated"), not the fuel.

And you have posted nothing about it being related to renewables to support your claim. So another lie until you show otherwise. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

It's impossible to debunk a brain damaged ideologue; I carry on this debate assuming others who are not so afflicted can extract the truth from the debate for themselves

I will leave you to it then. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

Oh dear: mobilization of a nation's resources requires knowledge of economics, yes, but economics is as much social study as mathematical science. .

It is all a social science. They can't even provide a list of benefits vs costs. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

CCS is yet to be developed,

CCS has failed.

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

OZ can run 100% on renewables with present technology (ANU study, already discussed in the "17 feet of snow " thread.

Only they can't. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

"Tall order" but not impossible, so let's get to it; with reforestation plus decarbonization.

Ah you want the cold, the famines the deaths. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

and before that, temp changes during the roman empire, so?

She only wanted to go back pre-industrial not your pre-history tripe. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

Brain damage PLUS early onset dementia? I presented many articles in the '17 feet of snow' thread.

And couldn't back them up. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

Twiggy Forrest is roaring to go, having already won contracts from overseas customers for his green hydrogen, which much of the globe - without Oz's almost unlimited renewable resources - will require.

It is not yet even a pipe dream. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

And which will enable Oz to replace filthy fossil exports with much more lucrative green hydrogen, green steel and green Aluminium.....plus renewables themselves (eg via undersea cable to Singapore).

You mean the green hydrogen that is going to return 18%-46% of input power? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:42am:

Albo is enthusiastic, and - backed by a dozen Greens in the Senate, and a hefty cross-bench in the Reps even more enthusiastic than Labor, the sky is the limit.

Yep. Pie in the sky. Grin

So seeing as you are a proven liar I will leave you.

Bye.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #107 - May 30^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

lee wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 1:49pm:

And Australia? Grin

Whatever, some essential services are more efficiently performed by the non-profit public sector (even if "brain-damaged" neoliberals can't see it...)

Quote:

Nope. You still don't get it. Snowy 2 will not do what it is supposed to do. That was supposed to be the back stop because batteries can't do it. Think storms and cyclones clouds for days little rays of sunsshine low output fro PV. Wind drought or excess wind no wind turbine power. You still haven't said how many times capacity would be needed to fulfill your fantasies. 6 times? 8 times? current levels of power? Roll Eyes

http://www.bom.gov.au/watl/sunshine/

As you can see, almost half of Oz (mostly desert) - much of it above the tropic of Capricorn (so available throughout the year) - has 11 hours of sunshine on av.

Plus rooftop solar and wind..enough to maintain many pumped hydro schemes, for the few hours, or rare days, when southern Oz is in renewables deficit.

Quote:

Another lie. You just can't help yourself can you?

"For Snowy 2.0 to produce the 350 GWh of electricity claimed, the top dam must be full and all that water released through the system. But replenishing the top dam after this event would take many months of pumping water from elsewhere in the system, and use up 40% more electricity than was originally generated. "

Well then desalinated seawater will also need to be separately pumped into the upper reservoir, all powered by the Pilbara (see map above).

Engineering can move mountains....

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #108 - May 30^th, 2022 at 2:56pm

Against my better judgement -

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

As you can see, almost half of Oz (mostly desert) - much of it above the tropic of Capricorn (so available throughout the year) - has 11 hours of sunshine on av.

Ah the old average schtick. Have a look at arena and look at the most productive hours of the day for PV. Between about 1000 and 1500. A lot less than 11 hours.

"The sun is at its strongest when it sits north in the sky at midday, which means if you have panels installed on your northern roof, the best time to utilise your solar electricity is anywhere from mid-morning to the afternoon."

https://www.infiniteenergy.com.au/best-time-use-solar-electricity/

thegreatdivide wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 2:32pm:

Well then desalinated seawater will also need to be separately pumped into the upper reservoir, all powered by the Pilbara (see map above).

Oh dear. Desalinators work on power. Another loss exercise. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #109 - May 31^st, 2022 at 2:07pm

lee wrote on May 30^th, 2022 at 2:56pm:

Against my better judgement -
Oh dear. Desalinators work on power. Another loss exercise. Roll Eyes

Loss? The Pilbara alone can supply all Oz energy requirements many times over...including pumping desalinated water uphill to keep the upper reservoir in Snowy 2 full when there's no sun or wind in Eastern Australia.

And then there's the use of (non-desalinated) seawater itself in schemes other than Snowy 2:

"This research indicates that sea water pumped hydro energy storage with a high flow rate and low head is technically and economically feasible for increasing the ability of national grids to allow high penetration of intermittent renewable energy.

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lee

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #110 - May 31^st, 2022 at 2:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 2:07pm:

The Pilbara alone can supply all Oz energy requirements many times over...including pumping desalinated water uphill to keep the upper reservoir in Snowy 2 full when there's no sun or wind in Eastern Australia.

The desalination is a loss. Added onto the already listed losses. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 2:07pm:

This research indicates that sea water pumped hydro energy storage with a high flow rate and low head is technically and economically feasible for increasing the ability of national grids to allow high penetration of intermittent renewable energy.

How do you get a high flow rate from a low head? Normally the flow comes from the height of the head because of the fall. The only way to increase flow from a low head is by pumping the water downhill. Another loss making exercise. Roll Eyes

You really are clueless.

Bye. I have wasted enough time on you.

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #111 - May 31^st, 2022 at 3:38pm lee wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 8:18pm: John Smith wrote on May 28^th, 2022 at 8:01pm: you didn't answer the question Yes please three truckloads. 78 Household st Household WA 6810 run away worm
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thegreatdivide

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Re: a green future means more mines
Reply #112 - May 31^st, 2022 at 4:03pm

lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 2:18pm:

How do you get a high flow rate from a low head? Normally the flow comes from the height of the head because of the fall. The only way to increase flow from a low head is by pumping the water downhill. Another loss making exercise. Roll Eyes

You really are clueless.

Er .....tell that to the people doing the research (noted above; google it)

As to the 'head', seawater can be pumped to the same height as desalinated water. (I'm not sure why the"head issue" was raised by the researchers).

Quote:

Bye. I have wasted enough time on you.

Yes, you only dig a bigger hole for yourself every time you reply with your fossil-defense ideology.

Time to stop swimming against the tide.

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« Last Edit: May 31^st, 2022 at 5:35pm by thegreatdivide »

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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #113 - May 31^st, 2022 at 7:00pm lee wrote on May 11^th, 2022 at 7:11pm: " A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity . Unless you want to pay homage to China - buckle up.
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21516 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #114 - May 31^st, 2022 at 7:10pm Poor randy. Another technological dudnderhead. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-m... So you don't trust your ABC? Is thegreatdivide another of your socks?
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random Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 2637 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #115 - May 31^st, 2022 at 8:28pm lee wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 7:10pm: Poor randy. Another technological dudnderhead. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-m... So you don't trust your ABC? Is thegreatdivide another of your socks? So you love the ABC too? Awesome!
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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 15655 Gender:	Re: a green future means more mines Reply #116 - May 31^st, 2022 at 10:39pm random wrote on May 31^st, 2022 at 8:28pm: So you love the ABC too? Awesome! https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/56552862.jpg Priceless.
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