lee wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 11:14am:

Australia’s fossil-fuelled power stations are currently subsidised to the tune of $7- 20 billion a year.

Grid stability has always been something to deal with, not just since renewables, the big batteries are helping to deal with that these days, so they say, along with the old methods using electrical gadgets.

When SA was running on renewables it doesn't mean the gas fired generators were switched off, they provide stability and excess was exported. It still doesn't make sense to build solar and wind farms if they have them switched off, probably more to do with economics.

Johnnie wrote on Jun 1^st, 2022 at 1:23pm:


Everything to do with economics; inadequate PRIVATE profit-driven market economics that is.

Which is why we need the public sector to fund the smart NATIONAL grid connecting rooftop solar AND wind and solar farms, to home batteries AND large scale pumped hydro storage

Johnnie wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2022 at 4:06pm:


If we are talking OZ powered by near 100% renewables ASAP, we need the vast (available)  capacity of rooftop solar,  as well as wind and solar farms.

The government can subsidize a battery industry in Oz, given we have the resources, and can also subsidize replacement costs (see MMT; if the resources are  available for purchase by the currency-issuing government , then the government can buy them with money created 'out of nothing'....which is how all money is created, a privilege reserved for private money lenders in the current dysfunctional monetary orthodoxy.  Note: the government is not increasing the money supply which would risk creating inflation,  the government is merely by-passing the market, in order to turn eg, lithium into batteries).

The barrier is dysfunctional profit-driven market economics, when it comes to provision of an essential service. 

The energy sector must be nationalized....just as Playford did in SA;  but now the situation is a transition to free sunshine and wind, as opposed to transition to cheap Leigh Creek brown coal in SA.

" In 1946, Playford created the Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA). He had nationalised the Adelaide Electric Supply Company, which as a private company, held a monopoly over electricity supplies in Adelaide and had refused to use the State's brown coal supply.


...because the private company wanted to maintain the fatter profits available from using more expensive black coal. Profits over people, as usual.

The ALP was delighted; they called Playford (a Liberal) the "best socialist premier" they ever had....

Johnnie wrote on Jun 5^th, 2022 at 5:54pm:


Due to the erroneous neoliberal  privatization dogma which was established in the 80's (Thatcher/Reagan/ Hawke years), overthrowing the successful post war  Keynesnian 'welfare state' public ownership policy. (because economists misunderstood the stagflation in the 70's caused by M.E oil embargo, and competition from Asia resulting in loss of 1st world industrial manufacturing). 

"The Electricity Trust of South Australia (ETSA) was the South Australian Government-owned monopoly vertically integrated electricity provider from 1946 until its privatisation in 1999".

Quote:


Depends on individual roof areas, available sun etc:

"Can I run my air conditioner on battery power?
The short answer is yes. With the proper equipment and enough batteries, you can run your RV AC unit on batteries. In addition to the lithium batteries, you'll need an inverter to invert the DC battery power into AC power for most air conditioning units.16 Aug 2021"


Quote:


Re large grid-scale vanadium batteries, powered by long-distance inter-connectors from solar and wind farms:

"Are vanadium flow batteries the future?
"The emerging need for large-scale electricity storage makes vanadium redox flow batteries a major potential future use of vanadium," USGS wrote. "Because of their large-scale storage capacity, development of VRBs could prompt increases in the use of wind, solar, and other renewable, intermittent power sources."15 May 2022


Quote:


Addressed above, we don't have grid scale vanadium batteries at present. And add on a few Snowy 2's for storage; should just about get us through the night and  at times when the wind isn't blowing.

Quote:


Yes, except even Oz gas - which we have plenty of - is owned by profit-gouging private companies who prefer to export overseas....as we are now experiencing...

lee wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:58pm:


7000 tons for one near-1 GWh battery...costing c.$14 billion? (couldn't see that figure in the article, only that "vanadium batteries are competitive with lithium batteries").

lee wrote on Jun 7^th, 2022 at 3:19pm:


Ah, $10, 000 per ton, not $1000 per lb....(= $2 million per ton, round figures.

So...$70 million for a 1 GWH battery. Not bad actually.

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 6^th, 2022 at 4:40pm:

The brown coal from Leigh Creek did a good job, a dirty job but a good job. Too bad we have so much good black coal around but its going to have to stay in the ground for the good of the planet. We should have gone nuclear 30 plus years ago.

Batteries can't even run a good size home reverse cycle A/C for more than a couple of hours. These vanadium batteries you speak of might be good but no battery is going to run industry, or even a small city without industry, or even a big town. Millions of batteries might do it.

Faced with the decision of whether to shut down coal plants or renewables, power companies have shut down coal plants.

"Coal absolutely loses the battle," Mr Buckley said.

"I think COVID is really creating a pause which allows a strategic rethink by power companies and governments."

Last month, Japan announced it was closing 100 of its 140 coal power plants by 2030.

Japan takes 45 per cent of Australia's thermal coal exports.

Mr Buckley said the closure of coal plants around the world would "categorically" affect demand for Australian coal, though it may be too late for this to stall the proposed Adani coal mine in Queensland's Galilee Basin.

"Adani's sunk cost may have gone past the point of no return," he said.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/world-global-coal-power-capacity-has-fell-in-2020/12523904