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More on wind turbines (Read 2954 times)
lee
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More on wind turbines
Apr 15th, 2022 at 5:38pm
 
Raw material and logistics inflation coupled with downward price pressures from auctions have led to an unsustainable situation where wind OEMs are selling at a loss, with the sector unable to deliver Europe's planned tripling of wind capacity by 2030, industry leaders have warned.

“The state of the supply chain is ultimately unhealthy right now,” GE Renewable Energy chief executive for onshore wind, Sheri Hickok, told a panel at the WindEurope 2022 conference in Bilbao on Tuesday.

“It is unhealthy because we have an inflationary market that is beyond what anybody anticipated even last year. Steel is going up three times.”

Steel for offshore wind towers is currently being purchased at over $2,000 per tonne, Hickok gave as example, adding that the prices of copper, carbon and logistics had also soared.

“It is really ridiculous to think how we can sustain a supply chain in a growing industry with these kind of pressures.”

After hefty price hikes last year in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic “things were higher but stabilising,” Hickok said, but added that with Russia’s war in Ukraine, the entire system had “unhinched” again in the past eight weeks, making it unsustainable at an unprecedented level of uncertainty.

The GE executive said she is very fearful for the entire wind industry ecosystem.

“Right now, different suppliers within the industry are reducing their footprint, they are reducing jobs in Europe,” she explained.

“If the government thinks that on a dime, this supply chain is going to be able to turn around and meet two to three times the demand, it is not reasonable.”

The European Commission’s recent REPowerEU plan, formulated in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, wants wind power capacity to soar from 190GW today to 480GW by 2030.
Destructive loop

Nordex chief executive José Luis Blanco stressed that even before the Ukraine war, the economics in the wind industry had been destroyed due to price pressures from competitive tenders coupled with a low visibility of wind capacity pipelines due to failed government policies.

“We are still selling at loss, because of the dynamic of auctions, the low predictability of volumes,” Blanco told the conference.

“We are investing in volumes in trust in market dynamics, then the volume doesn’t come, then a factory is empty, [and then] it is better [to have] some cash flow than no cash flow — and [consequently] the sector enters into a self-destructive loop.”

Blanco also said if Europe wants to triple its wind power capacity, it needs to better support the independence of the supply chain.

Currently, some 85% of the industry’s components are, however, coming from China, he said.

“The energy independence is supported by a supply-chain dependency policy. This a huge risk.”

Blanco was not only referring to rare earths, but said “normal things” such as metallic shafts in turbines, 95% of which are sourced in China.
All onshore OEMs in trouble

Enercon’s new chief executive Jürgen Zeschky went even further, saying “all European onshore OEMs are in trouble.”

Over the past eight years, cost was the only driver for developments, with low levelised costs of energy and low turbine prices driving the whole business, he told WindEurope 2022.

“We have reached a low cost base, but at the price of outsourcing to low-cost countries,” Zeschky admitted.

“If you look at Europe and Germany, we are constantly losing jobs in industry by relocating to other places.”

But the situation has changed fundamentally, he pointed out.

Due to Russia’s war in Ukraine, “we are faced with a situation, where it is not only about cost, but about an independent, resilient and reliable energy situation in Europe”.

To have sustainable energy generation, Europe needs a sustainable industry, and thus has to overcome being constricted to the lowest cost, he explained.

“That needs to change.”

https://www.rechargenews.com/wind/were-all-in-trouble-wind-turbine-makers-sellin...
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« Last Edit: Apr 15th, 2022 at 5:50pm by Bobby. »  
 
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freediver
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #1 - Apr 16th, 2022 at 7:38am
 
So they are selling at a lost, but will be unable to meet expected demand?

Sounds like someone is trying to spin it both ways at the same time.
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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.
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random
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #2 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:07pm
 
...
Wind turbines are such an eyesore.

...
We need more of these!
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #3 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:14pm
 
"These decisions are made even more difficult by China's control of the 35 so-called "critical minerals", which are not only vital for the transition to renewable energy but for economic and national security. The US and its allies fear Beijing could restrict or cut off supply in times of conflict.

And then there's the need to quickly act on climate change.

"Everything is now an emergency," says entrepreneur and inventor Saul Griffith, whose advocacy organisation Re-wiring America has advised US politicians and businesses.

"We need to be making wind turbines 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making solar cells 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making batteries and electric vehicles 10 times as fast as we do today."

"An electric vehicle needs about 200kg of minerals like copper, nickel, cobalt, and lithium. That's six times more than a petrol-powered car.

A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity.

These tough choices are increasingly becoming a trade-off between preserving local habitats and the global effort to avert the worst effects of climate change.

Kirsty Howey from the Northern Territory Environment Centre says it's "a confounding issue for the environmental movement".

"There's absolutely no doubt that we have to move to mining of critical minerals if we are going to address the climate crisis," she says.

But she argues governments need to ensure miners adopt far higher environmental standards as Australia gears up for its latest boom."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-m...

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random
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #4 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:21pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:14pm:
A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity.



Show me a wind turbine that generates the same amount of electricity as a coal fired power station.

...
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Johnnie
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #5 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:14pm:
"These decisions are made even more difficult by China's control of the 35 so-called "critical minerals", which are not only vital for the transition to renewable energy but for economic and national security. The US and its allies fear Beijing could restrict or cut off supply in times of conflict.

And then there's the need to quickly act on climate change.

"Everything is now an emergency," says entrepreneur and inventor Saul Griffith, whose advocacy organisation Re-wiring America has advised US politicians and businesses.

"We need to be making wind turbines 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making solar cells 10 times as fast as we do. We need to be making batteries and electric vehicles 10 times as fast as we do today."

"An electric vehicle needs about 200kg of minerals like copper, nickel, cobalt, and lithium. That's six times more than a petrol-powered car.

A wind turbine needs four times more minerals than a coal-fired power station to generate the same amount of electricity.

These tough choices are increasingly becoming a trade-off between preserving local habitats and the global effort to avert the worst effects of climate change.

Kirsty Howey from the Northern Territory Environment Centre says it's "a confounding issue for the environmental movement".

"There's absolutely no doubt that we have to move to mining of critical minerals if we are going to address the climate crisis," she says.

But she argues governments need to ensure miners adopt far higher environmental standards as Australia gears up for its latest boom."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-09/renewable-energy-may-require-australian-m...


What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #6 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:30pm
 
Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm:
What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.



Generators need copper one on each tower.

Towers need steel.

The magnets use rare earths.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy

"Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals"

https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-a...
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Johnnie
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #7 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:38pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:30pm:
Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm:
What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.



Generators need copper one on each tower.

Towers need steel.

The magnets use rare earths.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy

"Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals"

https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-a...

You reckon we are running out of copper steel and magnetic material, i thought you meant cobolt lithium or something.
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John Smith
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #8 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:41pm
 
random wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:07pm:



it's hilarious how lee always tries to claim that the small windmill is unsustainable but the giant steel mill,with 1000 times the raw materials required,is perfectly fine Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #9 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:47pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:30pm:
Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:23pm:
What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.



Generators need copper one on each tower.

Towers need steel.

The magnets use rare earths.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy

"Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals"

https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-a...


Well I guess we have a choice.

  1. Dig up more rare earths
  2. Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse


I'll take option 1.

Anyway coal freaks love mines right?

...
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« Last Edit: May 31st, 2022 at 8:04pm by random »  

So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #10 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:53pm
 
John Smith wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:41pm:
it's hilarious how lee always tries to claim that the small windmill is unsustainable but the giant steel mill,with 1000 times the raw materials required,is perfectly fine



Poor Guido. What small windmill? The ones used by the dutch or the ones used by Aussie farmers?

So this giant steel mill what is it going to use for energy? Green hydrogen according to studies returns 18-46% of the power in the round from generating the hydrogen to powering something with that hydrogen.

https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlin...
..Again too funny. Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #11 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:54pm
 
random wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:47pm:
lee wrote Today at 5:30pm:
walker wrote Today at 5:23pm:
What critical minerals are needed for windy mills, they are generators on a cement stick with a fibreglass prop.



Generators need copper one on each tower.

Towers need steel.

The magnets use rare earths.

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/critical-mineral-commodities-renewable-energy

"Clean energy demand for critical minerals set to soar as the world pursues net zero goals"

https://www.iea.org/news/clean-energy-demand-for-critical-minerals-set-to-soar-a...


Well I guess we have a choice.

    Dig up more rare earths
    Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse



I'll take option 1.



And damn the environment. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #12 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:58pm
 
Johnnie wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:38pm:
You reckon we are running out of copper steel and magnetic material, i thought you meant cobolt lithium or something.


Even the rare earth price is going up.

"Lithium Prices Have Nearly Doubled In 2022 Amid Insane Commodity Rally"

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lithium-prices-nearly-doubled-2022-170000490.html

Copper is also up.

https://www.dailyfx.com/copper-prices

"Cobalt prices to rise as demand-supply deficit widens: analysts "

https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/metals...

Cobalt too.
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #13 - May 31st, 2022 at 7:59pm
 
lee wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:54pm:
[quote author=random link=1650008296/9#9





And damn the environment. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Well I guess we have a choice.

    Dig up more rare earths
    Die from the four horsemen of the apocolypse

I'll take option 1.

Anyway coal freaks love mines right?

...

 
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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lee
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Re: More on wind turbines
Reply #14 - May 31st, 2022 at 8:00pm
 
random wrote on May 31st, 2022 at 7:59pm:
I'll take option 1.

Anyway coal freaks love mines right?



The best poor randy can do is mindless repetition. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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