thegreatdivide wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 1:01pm:



became productive by backing PRIVATE individuals and entrepreneurs.  ie  capitalism at its finest


When it comes to birthing unicorns, China is fertile territory. Trailing second only to the US, China boasts 316 unicorns, up 15 in just one year (2022) and a staggering 50% since pre-Covid days.2 May 2023

aquascoot wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 1:29pm:


Yes, but now the limits of the free market are revealing themselves, in both China ....and the US where  the economic stress experienced by half the population is resulting in political madness and hyperpartisanship.

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Yes, and the CCP is also determined to overcome free market catastrophies like the Evergrande disaster, in the government's  quest for common prosperity. 

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 11:07am:


Evidence.

Privatisation can work, it's not always a bad thing, but that requires proper regulatory oversight, which eats into profits and is always fought against, usually citing some coloured tape or "big government" as the means to mobilise the population to support actions that are not in their best interests.

aquascoot wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 12:22pm:


All you're doing is shifting the unaccountability elsewhere.

Everytime vital infrastructure or services are privatised and the regulations around them are watered down as always happens, either as part of the initial negotiation or over time, it leads to worse service levels, higher prices or government protected private monopolies.

And when those fail because they don't have the guard rails to prevent them from the sort of behaviour that lead to the GFC, what then?

We have to pay to bail them out.

Perhaps in say the US, when all the banks screwed up with their subprime mortgages, the Government shouldn't have bailed them out and instead paid peoples mortgages instead..?

They're private businesses after all, let them fail, but protect the people instead..?

Look at the privatised port authorities... Huge profits but higher prices for shipping with no improvements in processing, in most cases those times have blown out.

All someone else's fault of course.  Unaccountable and blame shifting, again.

And who pays the price for the delays and the overall increases in shipping costs?

Oh right, we do.

Vital services are about providing the service.  When you privatise them, the first thing to change is that it's no longer about service delivery, but the profit motive guiding all their decisions.

It changes from public interest to private interest. 

Yes, the provision of public services doesn't have an interest in the public, but instead profit.

And you want to talk about reduced accountability...!?  Privatised entities are not as accountable to the public as government-run services. This can lead to less transparency and responsiveness to public needs and complaints.

Privatisation of electricity networks in some states has been linked to rising prices and questionable improvements in service reliability, as in none.

But again, we find excuses to shift the blame elsewhere.

Where is that accountability again?

Scoot, I have to know, are you in favour of the sort of highly government-regulated safeguards that would be needed to make privatisation work, or are you an unbridled small government "the private sector do it better" fanatic?

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 3:40pm:

• Water services in South Australia
• Melbourne's train and tram networks
• Sydney's Cross City Tunnel and Lane Cove Tunnel
• Electricity networks in Victoria and South Australia
• Privatisation and deregulation of aged care services
• Privatisation of vocational education and training (VET) providers
• Privatisation of prison services in various states, including Victoria and New South Wales
• Partial privatisation and outsourcing of hospital services in Queensland and New South Wales
• Telstra privatisation led to service quality issues, higher costs for consumers, market dominance and competition issues and customer service decline

freediver wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 4:16pm:


I'm not going to list every single example, but of those I know about off the top of my head since I've been talking about this with a friend recently, here is more info from those above:

ProudKangaroo wrote on May 21^st, 2024 at 4:09pm:


An inquiry by the South Australian Parliament in 2018 highlighted that the privatisation of water services had resulted in higher costs for consumers without corresponding improvements in service quality. The Essential Services Commission of South Australia also noted ongoing concerns about the pricing and performance of privatised water services.

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A report by the Victorian Auditor-General's Office in 2005 found that the privatisation had not achieved the expected service improvements and that the state had to intervene financially to support the operators. Additionally, the public perceived a decline in service quality and increased fares, leading to significant criticism of the privatisation process.

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According to the NSW Auditor-General, the financial difficulties and high tolls of these projects highlighted the risks and challenges associated with privatising such infrastructure. The public's dissatisfaction with the cost of using these roads compared to the benefits received has been well-documented.

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A report by the Australia Institute found that electricity prices in Victoria and South Australia, where networks were privatised, were higher compared to other states where electricity infrastructure remained publicly owned. Furthermore, a study by the Grattan Institute indicated that privatisation had not delivered the promised efficiency gains and instead resulted in higher costs for consumers.

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The Royal Commission into Aged Care Quality and Safety, which delivered its final report in 2021, found widespread systemic failures in the aged care sector. It highlighted neglect, substandard care, and financial exploitation by some private providers. The Commission's findings indicate that the profit motive in privatised aged care has, in many cases, compromised the quality of care provided to elderly residents.

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The Australian Skills Quality Authority (ASQA) reported widespread non-compliance among private VET providers, resulting in low-quality education and training outcomes. A Senate inquiry in 2015 found that the rapid expansion of private VET providers, driven by profit motives, led to substandard training and exploitative practices, significantly undermining the integrity and effectiveness of the VET system.

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A report by the Victorian Auditor-General's Office in 2018 highlighted issues with the performance and cost-effectiveness of privately operated prisons. The report indicated that private prisons were more expensive and less effective in terms of rehabilitation compared to publicly operated prisons. Similar findings were reported in New South Wales, where private prisons experienced problems related to safety, staffing, and inmate management.

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The failed outsourcing of hospital services at the Royal North Shore Hospital in New South Wales in the early 2000s led to significant public outcry and eventual reversal of the privatisation initiative. Issues included deteriorating service quality, staff shortages, and increased patient complaints. In Queensland, the privatisation of some hospital services at the Royal Brisbane and Women’s Hospital faced similar criticism, with reports of reduced service quality and efficiency.

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A report by the Australian National Audit Office (ANAO) in 2009 highlighted that the privatisation of Telstra led to mixed outcomes in terms of service delivery, with notable gaps in rural and remote regions compared to urban areas. The lack of incentives for a private entity to invest in less profitable areas contributed to this disparity.

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Studies and consumer reports have shown that the cost of telecommunications services, particularly fixed-line and broadband, increased following privatisation. The Australian Communications Consumer Action Network (ACCAN) has documented consumer concerns about affordability and value for money in the years following Telstra's privatisation.

How is any of that evidence that people should not be able to have their own solar panels because it will somehow make the "service" worse?