Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine, Russia, Putin

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15694
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #60 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 6:17pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 2:07pm:

MAD or not, war is ineradicable.

I don't think so.

Of course, deluded"free"/"sovereign individual"/"inherent individual rights" ideologues will have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward a system of workable international law, but rational people will eventually see through the 'liberal world order' scam, when a functioning model of a collectivist society shows that security and universal prosperity can be achieved via good governance, at the national level.

Next stop: the international level.

Your opening sentence is just too depressing to contemplate. Of course humans have the capacity to eradicate war.

Quote:

What MAD has done has required the international poker game to be more strictly stage-managed by all sides than at any other time in history. Mao, for example, would not have gotten away with the murder of tens of millions today as he did when China was isolated and not at the table.

The age of MAD began in 1946 (or soon after, when Russia acquired the bomb). It didn't prevent the Chinese civil war, nor Mao's mistakes re economic policy, which had nothing to do with conduct of international war; nor the Korean war (which did) , nor the endless array of wars since then.

Quote:

In the age of MAD, the CCP can do no other than to feign 'concern' over Ukraine yet covertly support Russia - hence the wumao, little pinks and state-controlled media getting the order from the CCP to disseminate Russian propaganda.

And the US can do nothing other than increase the conflagration in Ukraine, while waiting for Russia to become exhausted.

Quote:

Of course it's easier to pontificate about anything when you don't have to suffer the consequences of disastrous policies.

Like Biden, so far; while Ukrainians suffer the $trillions in property damage, death and social upheaval of war, with 10 million pole displaced so far. And global price rises for fuel and food, which will increase global poverty and death among the poor.

Quote:

It's the main reason the CCP will not allow reporting or criticism of disasters attributable to CCP failure. Keep the people in the dark is the sole objective.

....while you keep pushing your delusional "war is ineradicable" ideology*** - a monstrous ideology, ensuring "dying for freedom" trumps life itself, life which can be secured by international law.

*** similar to the Conservative "poverty is ineradicable' absurd ideology.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 104373

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #61 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 6:50pm

Quote:

.while you keep pushing your delusional "war is ineradicable" ideology*** - a monstrous ideology, ensuring "dying for freedom" trumps life itself, life which can be secured by international law.

*** similar to the Conservative "poverty is ineradicable' absurd ideology.

Hey, Great, how are you going to secure international law when you won't even call Putin out?

I'm curious.

Back to top

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 104373

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #62 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 6:54pm

Quote:

Of course, deluded"free"/"sovereign individual"/"inherent individual rights" ideologues will have to be dragged kicking and screaming toward a system of workable international law, but rational people will eventually see through the 'liberal world order' scam, when a functioning model of a collectivist society shows that security and universal prosperity can be achieved via good governance, at the national level.

Hey, Great, how are you going to create a functioning model of a collectivist society with security and universal prosperity and good governance by silencing criticism of Putin?

I'm curious again. I'm keen to hear what you think.

Back to top

IP Logged

athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #63 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:47pm
Back to top	Do we need to be always politically correct. In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. IP Logged

Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #64 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:58pm Putin gets assassinated?
Back to top	OzPolitic needs a >real< Environment MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Food MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Health MRB now! OzPolitic needs a >real< Economics MRB now! Topics in the right MRB! IP Logged

athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #65 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 8:04pm Jovial Monk wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:58pm: Putin gets assassinated? Do you want to be denazified?
Back to top	Do we need to be always politically correct. In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17122 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #66 - Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 8:09pm athos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:47pm: []https://youtu.be/9Tov0p7Srxw?t=14[] Nearly-fifteen-years-of-posting-here-and-not-a-single-PM?- Would-be-a-record-on-this-forum-for-a-human- Bots-cant-pass-the-Turing-Test-yet.-
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15694
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #67 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 12:32am

Enquiring mind wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 6:50pm:

Hey, Great, how are you going to secure international law when you won't even call Putin out? I'm curious.

Establishing workable international law is an ongoing project in the UN.

The failure of diplomacy in the lead up to this current war reveals the failure of the 'liberal world order' to maintain peace.

The outcome of this war is uncertain; it is a continuation of the Cold War, just as WW2 was a continuation of WW1.

Unfortunately many nations are still deluded by the so-called 'liberal world order'.

Putin never signed up to the US-led 'liberal world order', so here we are.

Someone mentioned his assassination, but would this bring Russia into the 'liberal world order'?

Meantime the 'liberal world order' - which is a euphemism for US global hegemony - is developing the "China threat" theory (naturally, as China's rise threatens to end that hegemony).

But increasing poverty and inequality in the world shows the failure of the "liberal world order'.

So to answer your question: I'll "call Putin out" if he refuses to sign up to workable international law...but of course he won't ever get the chance to do it, since workable international law is still decades away, thanks to your delusional "sovereign rights" ideology.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15694
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #68 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 1:10am

athos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:47pm:

Russell Brand in full flight.

Serious and comical all at the same time, exposing the obfuscations and hypocrisy of the likes of Clinton and Blair changing international law into an "international rules-based system"...according to who is making the rules.....

Concluding with a wonderful insight (paraphrasing): we must all as individuals follow the golden rule, and then work out how to make it happen collectively.

Back to top

IP Logged

Grappler Racist Filth

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 90838
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #69 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 1:20am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 1:10am:

athos wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 7:47pm:

Russell Brand in full flight.

Serious and comical all at the same time, exposing the obfuscations and hypocrisy of the likes of Clinton and Blair changing international law into an "international rules-based system"...according to who is making the rules.....

Concluding with a wonderful insight (paraphrasing): we must all as individuals follow the golden rule, and then work out how to make it happen collectively.

Aye - and there is the meat of your defeat.............. you there yet?

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Grappler Racist Filth

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 90838
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #70 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 1:25am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 12:32am:

Enquiring mind wrote on Mar 22^nd, 2022 at 6:50pm:

Hey, Great, how are you going to secure international law when you won't even call Putin out? I'm curious.

Establishing workable international law is an ongoing project in the UN.

The failure of diplomacy in the lead up to this current war reveals the failure of the 'liberal world order' to maintain peace.

The outcome of this war is uncertain; it is a continuation of the Cold War, just as WW2 was a continuation of WW1.

Unfortunately many nations are still deluded by the so-called 'liberal world order'.

Putin never signed up to the US-led 'liberal world order', so here we are.

Someone mentioned his assassination, but would this bring Russia into the 'liberal world order'?

Meantime the 'liberal world order' - which is a euphemism for US global hegemony - is developing the "China threat" theory (naturally, as China's rise threatens to end that hegemony).

But increasing poverty and inequality in the world shows the failure of the "liberal world order'.

So to answer your question: I'll "call Putin out" if he refuses to sign up to workable international law...but of course he won't ever get the chance to do it, since workable international law is still decades away, thanks to your delusional "sovereign rights" ideology.

Aye - and there is the meat of your defeat...... again....

It Will Never Happen!! And it is not the "delusional "sovereign rights" ideology" that is causing this failure - It Is The Rogue Nations Such As Putinist Russia.....

How many will die while you play 'my ideology is better than yours'... knowing that yours will never be the way of life on Earth?

Words are cheap - it's the butter on the bagel that counts.... or as the Greeks say - it's the olive oil that makes it easy to get in........

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

Enquiring mind

Gold Member

Online

Australian Politics

Posts: 104373

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #71 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 2:05am

Quote:

So to answer your question: I'll "call Putin out" if he refuses to sign up to workable international law...but of course he won't ever get the chance to do it, since workable international law is still decades away, thanks to your delusional "sovereign rights" ideology

But you won't "call Putin out" if he unilaterally invades a sovereign country.

Something tells me you don't want this secure international law and universal prosperity, Great. You just want China and its proxies as number one.

America number ten. You just want to reserve the right for China and its underlings to invade whoever they want. That's why you joined this board - to spread this message.

"Sovereign rights" indeed, no?

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #72 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 6:10am

thegreatdivide wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 12:32am:

But increasing poverty and inequality in the world shows the failure of the "liberal world order'.

Only it was debt-trapping and the covid pandemic that drove poverty and inequality upwards over the last 2 years when, prior to 2020, it was forecast to continue decreasing as it had been for decades.

The CCP is the cause of increasing poverty, with its policy of debt-trapping and its criminal negligence in handling a virus outbreak.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #73 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 6:19am

It appears an act of sabotage by Belarus railway workers on train lines has disrupted Russia's ability to deliver supplies to its troops in Ukraine.

It's probable that Putin may have Lukashenko in his pocket, but not the people of Belarus.

It would be an extreme irony (and a graphic example of the law of unintended consequences) if Putin's war is the trigger that inspires Belarusians and the Russian people rise up against their respective dictatorships and demand western-style liberal democracy.

Back to top

IP Logged

Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 15063 Colorado Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #74 - Mar 23^rd, 2022 at 6:46am Please shut up.
Back to top	I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend IP Logged