Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine, Russia, Putin

athos

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #450 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 9:35am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 8:58pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 8:40pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 7:13pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1647807456/440#440 date=1649661290]
You cannot have a meritocracy in a one-party state.

Nonsense, in fact you can ONLY have a meritocracy in a one-party state, because adversarial, ideologically opposed 2-party democracies invariably draw on the most effective public ideologues, not the most merit-worthy people.

That's why democratic elections are so f**ked; have
a look at the current blind-leading-the-blind elections in France, and the chaos in Sri Lanka and Pakistan.
In France, 'centrist' Macron failed to improve the living standards of the poor, which is why far Right le Pen has forced him to a 2nd round election. She won't do any better if she is elected, just as Albo won't be able to any better than Scomo - which is why increasingly hyperpartisan and demoralized electorates (especially the young) are becoming increasingly disillusioned by democracy itself.

Of course, the real cause of this democratic malaise is the currently enforced - by private financiers/banksters - 'debt money' system itself, which these banksters are able to maintain because most people don't understand the concepts or indeed the difference between debt free money, and interest bearing debt-money.

See the Modern Monetary Theory thread, post #129.

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Any competent candidate who has not been endorsed by the party, or whose political ideas run counter to a totalitarian nepotistic oligarchy, will not be promoted into government; and there is no possibility of their running independently of the party, let alone against the party.

You mean "any competent candidate who has not been endorsed by one of the two major adversarial parties", or whose political ideas run counter to the ideology of either of these parties, will not be endorsed by the parties.

(Btw, that's why this election has more independents seeking election than ever.)

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The CCP still lies about the origin of covid and currently is blaming the omicron spike on imports from South Korea.

Huh? A mere two weeks or so after Dr Li's death confirmed the presence of the pandemic, the CCP acknowledged the pandemic and cooperated with the WHO's examination of its possible causes in China. Meanwhile the pandemic is still with us, the death toll in the "free" US is approaching 1 million dead; the "correct" approach is yet to be decided after the dust has finally settled.

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The CCP lies about the infection rate in China and has done since the beginning of the pandemic.

So you assert without evidence, while the disaster in the "free" US remains a condemnation of your "freedom" ideology.

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What the world did prior to 2020 was turn a blind eye to CCP lies and coverups.

....back in ideologue mode....

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The mask is off now; anything the CCP publishes about China's success is treated as a lie.

Haha...(fallacy of composition); nice try but no cigar.

The CCP has blamed the US, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Italy for the pandemic; anyone but the CCP.

Merit is the worthiness of someone for the role required. The CCP does not allow any non-party aligned competent person to enter government; this means the CCP chooses those who support its totalitarian nepotistic oligarchy prior to considering competence.

Nothing the CCP publishes about itself is trusted anywhere; and is merely tolerated only by other totalitarian nepotistic oligarchies where it serves their interests. I'd bet North Korea pretends to believe the CCP's statements on anything.

The truth of CCP crimes, as will soon happen to Putin's Russia, will only be exposed after it collapses.

Stupido

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athos

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #451 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 9:35am

Enquiring mind wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 3:00am:

Quote:

Nonsense, in fact you can ONLY have a meritocracy in a one-party state, because adversarial, ideologically opposed 2-party democracies invariably draw on the most effective public ideologues, not the most merit-worthy people.

??????????????

Sorry, dear, this doesn't make any sense, either historically, philosophically or even mathematically.

Alas, two plus two does not equal five, as Winston Smith was at pains to point out.

Meister is right. Your entire thesis falls down on this point. A one-party state is by definition a monopoly. This can't possibly deliver merit, just jobs for the boys.

After all, the CCP removed the leadership of Tibet on just such grounds. If you want a theocracy, you might as well put the Dali Lama back in power.

And as we all know, the Party is hardly the place for philosopher kings, no? Read your Plato.

Read your Marx. Dialectics 101, innit.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #452 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 10:01am

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:30pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 8:58pm:

The CCP has blamed the US, Australia, Japan, South Korea, Italy for the pandemic; anyone but the CCP.

Nonsense, though the CCP has suspicions about previous US activities in a Wuhan lab, ; and indeed the exact cause of the pandemic has yet to be confirmed by the WHO

Quote:

Merit is the worthiness of someone for the role required.

Correct, cf the current crop of clowns endorsed by the mainstream parties and standing for election in Oz, by an electorate most of whom have no idea, beyond their own blind, ignorant biases, re the various policies.

Hence the current democratic malaise, and general increasing disillusionment with democracy, as inequality soars - regardless of which party is in power.

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The CCP does not allow any non-party aligned competent person to enter government; this means the CCP chooses those who support its totalitarian nepotistic oligarchy prior to considering competence.

Wrong; merit is recognized at the local level in local elections at the town level.

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Nothing the CCP publishes about itself is trusted anywhere; and is merely tolerated only by other totalitarian nepotistic oligarchies where it serves their interests. I'd bet North Korea pretends to believe the CCP's statements on anything.

Just listening to Stan Grant's anti-Chinese program on ABC TV; why are you guys so desperate to point to China's faults, without any awareness of your own egregious shortcomings . Enjoy the mind-numbing idiocy of the adversarial democratic "debate" (aided and abetted by an equally ignorant yet willing media determined to confuse the issues even more) - which you will face in the coming 40 days, you deserve it.

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The truth of CCP crimes, as will soon happen to Putin's Russia, will only be exposed after it collapses.

Ah, the long-awaited 'China collapse' theory, an alternative to the much vaunted 'China threat' theory.
Gotta cover all your bases, I suppose.

You need to listen more to your master's own spokespeople, like Zhao Lijan, on the virus origins. The CCP was almost immediate in blaming the US for creating the virus as a bioweapon in Fort Detrick, then releasing it in Wuhan (around the time Shi Zhengli 'disappeared' from the world stage). Then, around the time Australia asked for an independent investigation of the virus origins, the CCP blamed Australian beef exports for transmission of the virus. Japan and South Korea were 'thrown under the bus' by the CCP blaming the virus entering China via their exports. Even Italy wasn't spared blame, given many Chinese travelled to Milan, the CCP decided it wasn't Chinese tourists that brought the virus to Italy, but the reverse.

All totalitarian nepotistic oligarchies under fire have one thing in common: cowardice.

It's not that the CCP are just full of clowns, they're full of clowns with power and armed to the teeth.

As you can see with Ukraine, and the aid its receiving, democracy is not in a state of malaise or disillusionment. The democracies have resolved to expel Russia from Ukraine and bleed dry for its invasion. The same will be done to the CCP.

A meritocracy in villages only, eh. So you admit that it does not exist at the provincial or state level. It doesn't even exist when applying for tertiary education; a prospective student must be a supporter of the CCP.

Stan Grant is about as soft on the CCP as it's possible to be without being ridiculed as a walking pathetic joke every time he leaves the house. Where's his feature-length criticism of the CCP's abuse of Cheng Lei?

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122882 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #453 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 11:13am Russians getting hammered:
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #454 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 1:05pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:30pm:

Ah, the long-awaited 'China collapse' theory, an alternative to the much vaunted 'China threat' theory.
Gotta cover all your bases, I suppose.

Not the collapse of China; the collapse of the CCP.

The Chinese people have an almost unequaled capacity for bearing what should be an intolerable weight (or to 'eat bitter' in the Chinese vernacular); as exemplified by their dissidents in Hong Kong and within China.

The current example is the Chinese vlogger, Wang Jixian, who stayed in Ukraine to report what Russia was really doing to the Ukrainians.

Naturally, given its mastery of making catastrophic mistakes, the CCP deleted his Chinese social media accounts and threatened his family in China.

When asked if he was exiled from China, he remarked, 'No, of course not. I could fly back to China today then straight from the airport to jail for life.' When asked if that bothered him, he replied, 'Of course nobody wants to go to jail, but compared to betraying my Ukrainian friends who would risk their life for me, what is jail compared to my dishonouring them by my betrayal?'

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #455 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 2:46pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 3:00am:

Quote:

Nonsense, in fact you can ONLY have a meritocracy in a one-party state, because adversarial, ideologically opposed 2-party democracies invariably draw on the most effective public ideologues, not the most merit-worthy people.

Sorry, dear, this doesn't make any sense, either historically, philosophically or even mathematically.

Mathematically? How many merit-worthy candidates do you think are standing for the two major adversarial parties in the OZ election?

I'm not sure but blimey, whenever some of them speak, its often misinformed garbage.

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Alas, two plus two does not equal five, as Winston Smith was at pains to point out.

And what has that to do with the lack of worthy candidates standing for the next election

Quote:

Meister is right. Your entire thesis falls down on this point. A one-party state is by definition a monopoly. This can't possibly deliver merit, just jobs for the boys.

Now you are displaying sloppy thinking; the number of worthy candidates in a one party state , cf. an adversarial 2-party democracy, is subject to consensus choices of the whole community first at the local level in the former; or choices of candidates by party ideologues/hacks in the adversarial 2-party rabble system..which is why ScoMo has copped so much flack recently, including an appeal to a Court of Law...

And then there's the Kimberly drama (on the ALP side); all hideously adversarial.

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After all, the CCP removed the leadership of Tibet on just such grounds. If you want a theocracy, you might as well put the Dali Lama back in power.

More sloppy thinking. We are discussing style/system of government, apart from issues of national sovereignty and regional autonomy.

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And as we all know, the Party is hardly the place for philosopher kings, no? Read your Plato.

"Utopia"? (I haven't read it).

The task for government today is establishment of universal prosperity AND security; no need to philosophize about that, in our age of AI and IT-assisted economies in which scarcity is an obsolescence only maintained for self-interested political purposes.

Quote:

Read your Marx. Dialectics 101, innit.

Not inclined to read that, either, for reasons stated above: the scarcity which Marx still had to contend with, is now an illusion foisted on the world by obsolete classical economists.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #456 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 2:56pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 1:05pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:30pm:

Ah, the long-awaited 'China collapse' theory, an alternative to the much vaunted 'China threat' theory.
Gotta cover all your bases, I suppose.

Not the collapse of China; the collapse of the CCP.

Well we saw what happened when the USSR collapsed, so ...you are talking about the collapse of China (eg massive increase in poverty and reduction in life expectancy, as happened in Russia, 1990 -2000.

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The Chinese people have an almost unequaled capacity for bearing what should be an intolerable weight (or to 'eat bitter' in the Chinese vernacular); as exemplified by their dissidents in Hong Kong and within China.

Mainland Chinese regard separatist goons in HK as traitors.

Quote:

The current example is the Chinese vlogger, Wang Jixian, who stayed in Ukraine to report what Russia was really doing to the Ukrainians.

Naturally, given its mastery of making catastrophic mistakes, the CCP deleted his Chinese social media accounts and threatened his family in China.

When asked if he was exiled from China, he remarked, 'No, of course not. I could fly back to China today then straight from the airport to jail for life.' When asked if that bothered him, he replied, 'Of course nobody wants to go to jail, but compared to betraying my Ukrainian friends who would risk their life for me, what is jail compared to my dishonouring them by my betrayal?'

Of course, you can't win them all......

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #457 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 3:24pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 10:01am:

You need to listen more to your master's own spokespeople, like Zhao Lijan, on the virus origins. The CCP was almost immediate in blaming the US for creating the virus as a bioweapon in Fort Detrick, then releasing it in Wuhan (around the time Shi Zhengli 'disappeared' from the world stage). Then, around the time Australia asked for an independent investigation of the virus origins, the CCP blamed Australian beef exports for transmission of the virus. Japan and South Korea were 'thrown under the bus' by the CCP blaming the virus entering China via their exports. Even Italy wasn't spared blame, given many Chinese travelled to Milan, the CCP decided it wasn't Chinese tourists that brought the virus to Italy, but the reverse.

(quick google):

"The first known infections from SARS-CoV-2 were discovered in Wuhan, China. The original source of viral transmission to humans remains unclear, as does whether the virus became pathogenic before or after the spillover event."

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All totalitarian nepotistic oligarchies under fire have one thing in common: cowardice.

China is a consensus one party meritocracy.

Quote:

It's not that the CCP are just full of clowns, they're full of clowns with power and armed to the teeth.

The peoples congress meetings are far more business- like and orderly than than the processes of the adversarial 2 party rabbles in the democracies.

I shall sentence you to nonstop listening of question time in the Oz parliament - a cruel and unusual punishment (!) - if you persist with your extreme ideological narrative.

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As you can see with Ukraine, and the aid its receiving, democracy is not in a state of malaise or disillusionment. The democracies have resolved to expel Russia from Ukraine and bleed dry for its invasion. The same will be done to the CCP.

Er... Ukrainian 'democracy' is being forced to preside over the destruction of Ukraine, as the West prolongs the conflict. Such horror should be illegal under international law by now.

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A meritocracy in villages only, eh.

No, that's the beginning of the process, like school captains are chosen on merit by consensus

Quote:

So you admit that it does not exist at the provincial or state level.

Wrong, those with the most merit will automatically move up through the higher levels of government

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It doesn't even exist when applying for tertiary education; a prospective student must be a supporter of the CCP.

I see you said "supporter", not "member of" (the CCP).

Of course separatist goons/"freedom"ideologues will only cause social unrest, they are free to go to the West.

Quote:

Stan Grant is about as soft on the CCP as it's possible to be without being ridiculed as a walking pathetic joke every time he leaves the house. Where's his feature-length criticism of the CCP's abuse of Cheng Lei?

Soft? Grant was practically begging panelists on Q&A recently for the West including Oz to go to war over Taiwan.

The ultimate absurdity, in a world without international law.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #458 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 4:05pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 2:56pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 1:05pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 11^th, 2022 at 10:30pm:

Ah, the long-awaited 'China collapse' theory, an alternative to the much vaunted 'China threat' theory.
Gotta cover all your bases, I suppose.

Not the collapse of China; the collapse of the CCP.

Well we saw what happened when the USSR collapsed, so ...you are talking about the collapse of China (eg massive increase in poverty and reduction in life expectancy, as happened in Russia, 1990 -2000.

Quote:

The Chinese people have an almost unequaled capacity for bearing what should be an intolerable weight (or to 'eat bitter' in the Chinese vernacular); as exemplified by their dissidents in Hong Kong and within China.

Mainland Chinese regard separatist goons in HK as traitors.

Quote:

The current example is the Chinese vlogger, Wang Jixian, who stayed in Ukraine to report what Russia was really doing to the Ukrainians.

Naturally, given its mastery of making catastrophic mistakes, the CCP deleted his Chinese social media accounts and threatened his family in China.

When asked if he was exiled from China, he remarked, 'No, of course not. I could fly back to China today then straight from the airport to jail for life.' When asked if that bothered him, he replied, 'Of course nobody wants to go to jail, but compared to betraying my Ukrainian friends who would risk their life for me, what is jail compared to my dishonouring them by my betrayal?'

Of course, you can't win them all......

Thankfully the Chinese have the Taiwanese to assist after the CCP's collapse.

Taiwan is a proven democratic success story respected around the world. We haven't forgotten that it was the Taiwanese who broke the truth to the world about the virus and its origins.

I'm sure all CCP prostitutes parrot CCP drivel about those Chinese patriots who see a world beyond living under the fist of apes.

The Chinese people will gain dissidents of worth one at a time. More power to Wang Jixian and his peers in Hong Kong and those courageous few who stand against the apes in China.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #459 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 4:18pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 3:24pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 10:01am:

You need to listen more to your master's own spokespeople, like Zhao Lijan, on the virus origins. The CCP was almost immediate in blaming the US for creating the virus as a bioweapon in Fort Detrick, then releasing it in Wuhan (around the time Shi Zhengli 'disappeared' from the world stage). Then, around the time Australia asked for an independent investigation of the virus origins, the CCP blamed Australian beef exports for transmission of the virus. Japan and South Korea were 'thrown under the bus' by the CCP blaming the virus entering China via their exports. Even Italy wasn't spared blame, given many Chinese travelled to Milan, the CCP decided it wasn't Chinese tourists that brought the virus to Italy, but the reverse.

(quick google):

"The first known infections from SARS-CoV-2 were discovered in Wuhan, China. The original source of viral transmission to humans remains unclear, as does whether the virus became pathogenic before or after the spillover event."

Quote:

All totalitarian nepotistic oligarchies under fire have one thing in common: cowardice.

China is a consensus one party meritocracy.

Quote:

It's not that the CCP are just full of clowns, they're full of clowns with power and armed to the teeth.

The peoples congress meetings are far more business- like and orderly than than the processes of the adversarial 2 party rabbles in the democracies.

I shall sentence you to nonstop listening of question time in the Oz parliament - a cruel and unusual punishment (!) - if you persist with your extreme ideological narrative.

Quote:

As you can see with Ukraine, and the aid its receiving, democracy is not in a state of malaise or disillusionment. The democracies have resolved to expel Russia from Ukraine and bleed dry for its invasion. The same will be done to the CCP.

Er... Ukrainian 'democracy' is being forced to preside over the destruction of Ukraine, as the West prolongs the conflict. Such horror should be illegal under international law by now.

Quote:

A meritocracy in villages only, eh.

No, that's the beginning of the process, like school captains are chosen on merit by consensus

Quote:

So you admit that it does not exist at the provincial or state level.

Wrong, those with the most merit will automatically move up through the higher levels of government

Quote:

It doesn't even exist when applying for tertiary education; a prospective student must be a supporter of the CCP.

I see you said "supporter", not "member of" (the CCP).

Of course separatist goons/"freedom"ideologues will only cause social unrest, they are free to go to the West.

Quote:

Stan Grant is about as soft on the CCP as it's possible to be without being ridiculed as a walking pathetic joke every time he leaves the house. Where's his feature-length criticism of the CCP's abuse of Cheng Lei?

Soft? Grant was practically begging panelists on Q&A recently for the West including Oz to go to war over Taiwan.

The ultimate absurdity, in a world without international law.

So you admit that Zhao Lijan was disseminating misinformation about the virus. He should stick to downloading eastern European gay porn.

Putin will ultimately pay with his life or his deposing for what he did to Ukraine.

China is a totalitarian nepotistic oligarchy. By your own admission, after nearly 75 years, advancement by merit alone is still at the village and school level.

Meritocracy is predicated on the degree of capability of the person to perform a role's duties and nothing more. That is meritocracy by definition. You seem to know little of how people are selected by the CCP in China for roles in power.

The CCP itself is in turmoil, being currently riven by 3 factions vying for power; recently demonstrated by high ranking officials from all 3 factions rushing, independently of each other, and vying against each other for control of the recent airline crash site.

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #460 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 5:04pm Yet Australia is not, a lawless British colony.
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Enquiring mind

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #461 - Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:39pm

Quote:

Now you are displaying sloppy thinking; the number of worthy candidates in a one party state , cf. an adversarial 2-party democracy, is subject to consensus choices of the whole community first at the local level in the former; or choices of candidates by party ideologues/hacks in the adversarial 2-party rabble system..which is why ScoMo has copped so much flack recently, including an appeal to a Court of Law...

This doesn't make sense either. China has no consensus choices at the local level, you just get what you're given. Australia has few choices, but one: we can throw them out.

Take Hong Kong. They overwhelmingly voted against the Party's wishes so, by the stroke of a pen in Beijing, the CCP changed the rules. Now, they get what they're given. If anybody complains, the police come along, put them in a van, and after two years, their families find out they've been given twenty year sentences.

This can't possibly happen in Australia. If it did, we'd vote such a government out. There is no merit in the CCP - if anything, the CCP overturns merit by locking up students and professionals who complain. Those who rise to the top in such systems don't need to display talent, dear, just compliance.

As explained, you will never convince anyone here of the advantage of an authoritarian, one-party state. That's not because we're brainwashed dupes, it's because there's nothing in it for us.

Political leaders, sure - many would love endless terms and no political competition, but they know it too because they know what being in opposition is like: democracy trumps oligopoly every time.

I'm not saying it delivers universal prosperity - the CCP doesn't do that either. But it is acceptable to the population. I can criticize the government and even run against it and I know I won't get put in jail for twenty years.

You cant. Athos can't even read most of the links people give him in response to his propaganda - the CCP blocks them. You and Athos are trapped in a CCP echo chamber, parroting CCP policy to foreign citizens who can't possibly accept the message.

What, after all, would be in it for us?

If you can give me a sincere and sensible answer, I'll join the Party tomorrow.

Have a go.

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #462 - Apr 13^th, 2022 at 12:03pm

More than 1,000 Ukrainian Marines voluntarily surrendered in Mariupol

12.04.2022 23:49

The most massive surrender since the beginning of hostilities - more than 1,000 Marines of the Ukrainian Armed Forces voluntarily surrendered in Mariupol.

According to war correspondent Sladkov, about 400 wounded and unable to move on their own, as well as more than 800 healthy Ukrainian soldiers voluntarily surrendered in Mariupol.

The Ukrainian military was defending one of the two main pockets of resistance, the Illich plant.

It is very difficult to distinguish such a thing from the surrender of the Ukrainian Armed Forces in Mariupol.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #463 - Apr 13^th, 2022 at 2:02pm Keep thinking that. While you can. Meantime, how many russians have deserted or surrendered? Often leaving perfectly good tanks, artillery etc for the Ukrainian army’s use.
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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #464 - Apr 13^th, 2022 at 3:59pm

Enquiring mind wrote on Apr 12^th, 2022 at 7:39pm:

This doesn't make sense either. China has no consensus choices at the local level, you just get what you're given. Australia has few choices, but one: we can throw them out.

The emergence of capable persons to leadership positions at the village/local level is a spontaneous process arrived at by consensus.

Quote:

Take Hong Kong.

A former British colony which for much of its history had limited 'democratic rights' under British rule....

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They overwhelmingly voted against the Party's wishes so, by the stroke of a pen in Beijing, the CCP changed the rules.

There was no overwhelming vote, and in any case HK is part of China. The extradition law was seized on by separatists who caused massive social unrest of the type seen in the US Capitol riots.

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Now, they get what they're given. If anybody complains, the police come along, put them in a van, and after two years, their families find out they've been given twenty year sentences.

China is not forcing its one-party system on other nations. HK is de jure part of China which nevertheless accepts the 'one nation - 2 systems' principle. But separatists who want to undermine China's internal security attempted to destroy that system.

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This can't possibly happen in Australia. If it did, we'd vote such a government out.

Yes... 'tweedledee in, tweedledum out: rinse and repeat, in the forlorn delusion one side will ever be able to achieve more than the other. When will you ever learn? That's why democracies are imploding into hyperpartisan rabbles.

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There is no merit in the CCP -

Well it earns the support of > 90% of the people, because it achieves its 5-year plans, unlike Oz where a defined climate plan has yet to emerge because of adversarial party squabbling, while China is developing nuclear energy technology and has the world's fastest growing renewables sector.

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if anything, the CCP overturns merit by locking up students and professionals who complain.

Delusional "freedom" die-hards are a pain in the arse for the CCP, but fortunately most Chinese are more interested in getting on with the business of developing the nation in an orderly manner, rather than bleating about an illusory "freedom".

Only comfortable conservatives are satisfied with Western democracies with their chronic, evasive, and generational poverty amidst plenty. Fix your own homelessness and chronic aboriginal disadvantage problems.

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Those who rise to the top in such systems don't need to display talent, dear, just compliance.

They need both, to achieve well-ordered communities with a single vision of sustainable national development.

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As explained, you will never convince anyone here of the advantage of an authoritarian, one-party state. That's not because we're brainwashed dupes, it's because there's nothing in it for us.

Guess what, no-one is asking you accept the advantages of a one-party system, only to relate to China as any other state.

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Political leaders, sure - many would love endless terms and no political competition, but they know it too because they know what being in opposition is like: democracy trumps oligopoly every time.

Alright, but you haven't convinced me, cringing at the current state of the election campaign ..top news: Albo didn't know some figures....while aboriginals are drinking themselves to death on Broome beaches (as they have been for generations).

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I'm not saying it delivers universal prosperity

no kidding..

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- the CCP doesn't do that either.

At least the CCP has a stated goal of common prosperity. In Oz comfortable fat-cat conservatives are content to say it's impossible.

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But it is acceptable to the population.

like I said, acceptable to comfortable conservatives.

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I can criticize the government and even run against it and I know I won't get put in jail for twenty years.

and remain a comfortable conservative, while others are homeless, unemployed and worse.

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You cant. Athos can't even read most of the links people give him in response to his propaganda - the CCP blocks them. You and Athos are trapped in a CCP echo chamber, parroting CCP policy to foreign citizens who can't possibly accept the message. What, after all, would be in it for us?

Guess what: I'm not a member of the CCP.

What I really want is a friendly competition between two systems of government. But the paranoid "freedom" ideology of the West has turned China into the number one "threat". Pathetic to say the least.

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If you can give me a sincere and sensible answer, I'll join the Party tomorrow.
Have a go.

Actually we should both be working to outlaw the absurd concept of "legal" war, via a ICJ backed by a UNSC without veto.

Thinking out loud: would the West be prepared to 'live and let live', if China accepted Taiwan's independence, in return for the lifting of all sanctions and bans on Chinese companies worldwide? Including the free flow of people and trade between the island and the mainland?

Interesting to see your response to that idea....

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