Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine, Russia, Putin

Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 122415 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #345 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:37pm The war is getting worse - executions of unarmed civilians - what if NATO decides that they've seen enough and go in to get the Russians?
Back to top	IP Logged

Grappler Racist Filth

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 90845
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #346 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:51pm

Bobby. wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:37pm:

The war is getting worse - executions of unarmed civilians -
what if NATO decides that they've seen enough and go in to get the Russians?

The Russians will lose - but remember how far it is to the oil and gas fields. NATO was caught with its pants down and being peaceful and non-interventionist - guilt trip after WWII etc... years of relative peace etc soft living and no real expectation of a real war any time on the horizon....

They are re-grouping as we speak and are re-considering their options. Putin's adventurism was a great wake-up call to them.

Back to top

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #347 - Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 10:51pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 2:12pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 31^st, 2022 at 11:18am:

And so it goes...

Ukraine's concessions:

No NATO
No Nukes
Acceptance of the loss of Crimea
Negotiations over ceding Donbas to Russia.

Russia is going to want more of eastern Ukraine, but its annexation, in some form, into Russia is likely certain.

On the Russian side, it appears Putin's situation is eerily like that of Hitler's in early 1945. Both Hitler's and Putin's respective high commands are reporting only what the leader wants to hear. In Putin's case this is a likely a signal that he will be deposed before the seniors of his high command tell him the truth.

Well! What a difference 3 days make!

Ukraine may just hold out on acknowledging the annexation of Crimea.

And if that's true, I'd bet they're going to hold out on Russia annexing the east.

Ukrainian resistance over the last 5 weeks has hardened to more than steeled, it's titanium!

Having said that, will NATO, the EU and the rest of Europe allow Ukraine to keep its east and south?

Will they limit military aid to allowing Ukraine to secure the west and the north?

It's very probable that Ukraine will never have the ability to subdue the Russian-speaking south and east, making ceding it to Russia more amenable to the stability and security of Europe and the world.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17122 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #348 - Apr 4^th, 2022 at 7:16pm After what has happened in Bucha, Putin must not be allowed any victory in Ukraine. The world must do what needs to be done to expel Putin's murder machine out of all of Ukraine, including Crimea.
Back to top	IP Logged

Bobby.

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 122415
Melbourne
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #349 - Apr 4^th, 2022 at 7:19pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:51pm:

Bobby. wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:37pm:

The war is getting worse - executions of unarmed civilians -
what if NATO decides that they've seen enough and go in to get the Russians?

The Russians will lose - but remember how far it is to the oil and gas fields. NATO was caught with its pants down and being peaceful and non-interventionist - guilt trip after WWII etc... years of relative peace etc soft living and no real expectation of a real war any time on the horizon....

They are re-grouping as we speak and are re-considering their options. Putin's adventurism was a great wake-up call to them.

NATO might have to go in as peace keepers
and divide Ukraine in half -
just like North and South Korea.

I am sure that is one of the plans.

Back to top

IP Logged

tickleandrose Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 4201 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #350 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 8:17am The best thing we can hope for is a DMZ zone dividing East and West Ukraine. The Russians are there to stay, there is no retreating. Lets hope that at least a ceasefire would return soon, even if the war continues.
Back to top	IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #351 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 9:34am

"For god's sake, this man cannot remain in power".

After Bucha, it doesn't sound so much like a gaffe any more; more like a justified war cry.

And there will be more Buchas to come and with much worse optics.

But, will NATO and Europe allow Ukraine to expel all Russian forces in the south and east?

Again, after Bucha, the negative is going to be a hard sell to Europeans and the democratic world.

Zelensky 'invited' Sarkozy and Merkel to visit Bucha to see the evil of what 14 years of their appeasing Putin unleashed on Ukraine.

History never repeats?

Ironic that a German chancellor became a Chamberlain to Putin's Hitler.

Back to top

IP Logged

athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #352 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 11:05am Cool down and stop masturbating while consuming your fake news media.
Back to top	Do we need to be always politically correct. In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. IP Logged

MeisterEckhart Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17122 Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #353 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 11:45am athos wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 11:05am: Cool down and stop masturbating while consuming your fake news media. []https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gh6SUSDDcQ[] To-the-athos-bot-administrator:- How-are-you-enjoying-the-work- of-The-Great-Translation-Movement?-
Back to top	IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15697
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #354 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:34pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 4:53pm:

So, according to you, foreign-speaking usurpers can claim land linguistically separate from them so long as the usurper is the CCP.

No. Putin claims sovereignty over majority-Russian-speaking areas in Ukraine.

The CCP claims sovereignty over Taiwan which has the same linguistic character as the mainland.

Quote:

Has the CCP got its eye on Singapore because there are a lot of Han Chinese Mandarin / Cantonese speakers in Singapore?

No, because Chinese expats in Singapore moved there by choice, and China has never claimed sovereignty over Singapore; whereas - and here is the killer for your nonsense - the Taiwanese (after losing the 1949 civil war) claimed sovereignty over all of China until the reality in the UN caught up with them.

Quote:

The CCP is suppressing Mongolian and Tibetan in Inner Mongolia and Tibet respectively. Wonder why??!!

The same reason the US is suppressing native Americans. ie, sovereignty was established before the concept of international law outlawed imperialism, whether by the British, or Qing empires.

Quote:

According to you, the CCP can invade Taiwan because the Taiwanese speak Mandarin or Cantonese.

Refuted above: The Taiwanese themselves claimed to be the sole government of China, until reality set in.

Quote:

Here's how it works. If an aggressive regime invades another country for whatever reason, the subjugated will always claim the right to defend themselves against and expel the invaders if they can. Nothing will change that.

The Scots generally accept the sovereignty of the UK, though some don't. But the S. Irish don't accept the incursion in N. Ireland....

And the Dalai Lama accepts Tibetan autonomy within China.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:46pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15697
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #355 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:43pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 5:29pm:

Taiwan is Taiwan - it stands independent and has nothing to do with US hegemony..... you, sir, are a liar.

1. Taiwan is part of One China, recognized by the UN.

2. US policy of "strategic ambiguity" means it can simultaneously support One China, AND arm Taiwan to the teeth (which it is doing) with $billions in arms sales.

3. The US regards Taiwan as an "unsinkable aircraft carrier" for purposes of projecting US power - to contain China's rise and maintain US global hegemony.

Back to top

IP Logged

MeisterEckhart

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 17122
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #356 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:49pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:34pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2022 at 4:53pm:

So, according to you, foreign-speaking usurpers can claim land linguistically separate from them so long as the usurper is the CCP.

No. Putin claims sovereignty over majority-Russian-speaking areas in Ukraine.

The CCP claims sovereignty over Taiwan which has the same linguistic character as the mainland.

Quote:

Has the CCP got its eye on Singapore because there are a lot of Han Chinese Mandarin / Cantonese speakers in Singapore?

No, because Chinese expats in Singapore moved there by choice, and China has never claimed sovereignty over Singapore; whereas - and here is the killer for your nonsense - the Taiwanese (after losing the 1949 civil war) claimed sovereignty over all of China until the reality in the UN caught up with them.

Quote:

The CCP is suppressing Mongolian and Tibetan in Inner Mongolia and Tibet respectively. Wonder why??!!

The same reason the US is suppressing native Americans. ie, sovereignty was established before the concept of international law outlawed imperialism.

Quote:

According to you, the CCP can invade Taiwan because the Taiwanese speak Mandarin or Cantonese.

Refuted above: The Taiwanese themselves claimed to be the sole government of China, until reality set in.

Quote:

Here's how it works. If an aggressive regime invades another country for whatever reason, the subjugated will always claim the right to defend themselves against and expel the invaders if they can. Nothing will change that.

The Scots generally accept the sovereignty of the UK, though some don't. But the S. Irish don't accept the incursion in N. Ireland....

And the Dalai Lama accepts Tibetan autonomy within China.

Putin did not focus his invasion in the east. He opened fronts in the north and northeast in an attempt to decapitate the Ukrainian government and install a puppet regime loyal to Russia expecting no resistance and possibly an uprising in Russia's favour. He was wrong; as the CCP will realise if it imagines the Taiwanese will be more welcoming than the Ukrainians were to Russians.

Yet Singapore has a similar linguistic character to those Chinese subjugated by the CCP.

Austrians speak German. Should Germany invade Austria? Brazilians speak Portuguese. Should Portugal invade Brazil? Should Spain invade South American Spanish-speaking countries?

Should Mongolia invade inner Mongolia to prevent the suppression of the Mongolian language in Inner Mongolia?

Uighurs speak the language of Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, and Kyrgyzstan. Should they invade Xinjiang?

So you agree the CCP is suppressing Mongolian and Tibetan languages in Inner Mongolia and Tibet respectively.

The Taiwanese are a separate people who have not had to suffer the oppression and catastrophic 'mistakes' of the CCP. It is not surprising that they intend to defend their island against it.

Back to top

IP Logged

athos

Gold Member

Offline

Re-educate barbarians

Posts: 6421
Hong Kong
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #357 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:52pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 11:45am:

athos wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 11:05am:

Cool down and stop masturbating while
consuming your fake news media.

[]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gh6SUSDDcQ[]

To-the-athos-bot-administrator:-
How-are-you-enjoying-the-work-
of-The-Great-Translation-Movement?-

Grrrrrrrrr Grumpy Old Man.
Grin

Ukraine was occupied by NATO and desperately needed de-Nazification and liberation from Ukrainian fascists.

Grin

Back to top

« Last Edit: Apr 5^th, 2022 at 5:34pm by athos »

Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics<br
/>

Posts: 15697
Gender: male

Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #358 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:54pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Apr 5^th, 2022 at 9:34am:

History never repeats?
Ironic that a German chancellor became a Chamberlain to Putin's Hitler.

History will keep repeating itself, so long as war is legal, given that national self-interest will always find a reason to go to war, as Bush did in Iraq, and the US is doing in proxy wars in Syria and Yemen.

Back to top

IP Logged

Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 15063 Colorado Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #359 - Apr 5^th, 2022 at 12:55pm
Back to top	I like takin' Tuinal. It keeps me edgy and mean. I'm a teenage schizoid I'm a teenage dope fiend IP Logged