Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine, Russia, Putin

athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1110 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 2:05pm https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYg1urGWQAE5X1Qformat=jpg&name=small
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1111 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 2:32pm

athos wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 1:53pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 8:23am:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

So when is Putin going to show his brilliance? He and Lavrov are like walking cliches of dumb Russian cloddishness. The war should have been over in week. We are talking about what used to be considered the worlds 2nd most powerful military. Was it all a sham? Just some rusty old Cold War technology and a poorly educated population?

Gross underestimation of a war's duration is universal and always the immediate opinion of leaders and military seniors at their outset.

WW1 was predicted to be concluded by December 1914.
WW2 was predicted to be at an end by 1940 via a peace treaty.
The Korean War didn't make the status of a 'war' when it began. Like the Vietnam war, it was a 'police action'. Technically the Korean war has not concluded todate.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, China and India - decades in their prosecution.

Who can predict the ultimate duration of conflicts with confidence?

I know that the British never killed anyone
without it being for his own good.

Unlike the CCP, that killed millions for fun.

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Frank

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1112 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 3:14pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:17am:

Despite his disastrous logistical miscalculations, his anger at the Russian military’s strategic incompetence, his shock-and-awe battering by unwavering Ukrainian resistance, his underestimation of the world’s resolve against him, crippling sanctions, his surprise at NATO’s unity and self-control, Europe’s unanimous solidarity with Ukraine, his purging of his inner-circle advisors - indicating paranoia - Putin is rolling the dice for an outcome favouring himself, Russia, and Russia-aligned Ukrainians.

Whatever his presumptions were, from which he has now been rudely disabused, or even what his original objectives were, he appears to now have two goals in mind:

To drive all resistant Ukrainians west by all-out, scorched-earth, destruction of eastern Ukrainian cities, followed by an ethnic cleansing of all remaining non-Russian-aligned eastern Ukrainians.

To impose a partition of Ukraine into east (including Crimea) and west. The former likely to be subsumed into Russia (as opposed to being recognized as the sovereign nation of ‘East Ukraine’).

I’d bet this is the deal that the world will accept, with NATO and Europe tasked with convincing Zelensky of its realpolitik imperative; leaving Zelensky to sell the outcome to Ukrainians.

How will it all end? Like this:

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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issuevoter

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1113 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 5:26pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 8:23am:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

So when is Putin going to show his brilliance? He and Lavrov are like walking cliches of dumb Russian cloddishness. The war should have been over in week. We are talking about what used to be considered the worlds 2nd most powerful military. Was it all a sham? Just some rusty old Cold War technology and a poorly educated population?

Gross underestimation of a war's duration is universal and always the immediate opinion of leaders and military seniors at their outset.

WW1 was predicted to be concluded by December 1914.
WW2 was predicted to be at an end by 1940 via a peace treaty.
The Korean War didn't make the status of a 'war' when it began. Like the Vietnam war, it was a 'police action'. Technically the Korean war has not concluded todate.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, China and India - decades in their prosecution.

Who can predict the ultimate duration of conflicts with confidence?

Yes, I totally get the underestimation of war, which is historic. But this is different somehow. Is this the full battle capability of the Russian Federation? If not, why are they holding back? They are supposed to be able to give the US a run for their money. Ukraine may have no air cover, but the Russian airforce has done next to nothing. All Russia has done is pulverise a couple of small cities with explosives . . . which they call liberation. The rather tiny Australian military could do that. Scratch that. New Zealand could do it.

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No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1114 - Jul 26^th, 2022 at 6:17pm

issuevoter wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 5:26pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 8:23am:

issuevoter wrote on Jul 26^th, 2022 at 7:45am:

So when is Putin going to show his brilliance? He and Lavrov are like walking cliches of dumb Russian cloddishness. The war should have been over in week. We are talking about what used to be considered the worlds 2nd most powerful military. Was it all a sham? Just some rusty old Cold War technology and a poorly educated population?

Gross underestimation of a war's duration is universal and always the immediate opinion of leaders and military seniors at their outset.

WW1 was predicted to be concluded by December 1914.
WW2 was predicted to be at an end by 1940 via a peace treaty.
The Korean War didn't make the status of a 'war' when it began. Like the Vietnam war, it was a 'police action'. Technically the Korean war has not concluded todate.
Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, China and India - decades in their prosecution.

Who can predict the ultimate duration of conflicts with confidence?

Yes, I totally get the underestimation of war, which is historic. But this is different somehow. Is this the full battle capability of the Russian Federation? If not, why are they holding back? They are supposed to be able to give the US a run for their money. Ukraine may have no air cover, but the Russian airforce has done next to nothing. All Russia has done is pulverise a couple of small cities with explosives . . . which they call liberation. The rather tiny Australian military could do that. Scratch that. New Zealand could do it.

Russia's power in Ukraine is vested in Russian speakers of the east and south. They, ultimately, will be loyal to 'mother Russia' and would be destined to be a fifth column if Ukraine is reunited. Without them, Putin would not have made any gains he could keep in the east and south.

It's clear that Russia's actual military status is 3rd rate at best compared to NATO (and western Ukraine - which is fighting for its existence as opposed to just its power-status). But that won't stop this war, as long as Putin remains in power.

Russians have not yet processed the sudden collapse of its status as leaders within the Soviet Union - which enjoyed near-peer military status with the US. They are not ready to accept that Russia is now a minor economic and military power.

Russians may not approve of the war, but they resent their status-demotion; and that is where Putin sources his influence and the peoples' appetite for war - for now.

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1115 - Jul 27^th, 2022 at 2:46pm Exorcism, how does it work and why it can be so risky? https://twitter.com/i/status/1551685352200486913
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1116 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:26pm
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1117 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:29pm
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1118 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:31pm
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1119 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:39pm https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYrxEonXgAAUwhX?format=jpg&name=large
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athos

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1120 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:52pm

Breaking news

Afghanistan is sending volunteers in Ukraine to fight Nazis

The representatives of the Republic of Afghanistan in Moscow recently informed the representatives of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation that they are ready to recruit and send volunteer detachments as soon as possible to fight against NATO proxy forces on the territory of the DNR and LNR. The detachments would be made up of people who already had experience in fighting with units of US troops and coalition forces in Afghanistan, but also specialists with extensive experience in handling various types of weapons in the official use of the US army, and those who once underwent special military training under the leadership of NATO instructors. The representatives of Afghanistan also believe that it is necessary to hand over to the military specialists of the armed forces of the Russian Federation the documentation and samples of weapons that the liberation army of Afghanistan seized in the bases after the escape of the American army. The representatives of the Republic of Afghanistan also expressed great hope for the further development of long and friendly relations between the people of Russia and Afghanistan.

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Do we need to be always politically correct.
In the world of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #1121 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:53pm

athos wrote on Jul 28^th, 2022 at 12:29pm:

[]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-j8Y-A2m6E[]

Typical of CCP stupidity.

Comparing Putin to Rasputin - a conman priest who manipulated aristocrats for money and power - would not be a compliment to Putin, any more than Xi would be complimented by being compared to the Empress-Dowager Cixi or Winne-the-Pooh.

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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1122 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 1:03pm The whole free and decent world supports China and Russia Football fans of the Turkish football club Fenerbahce chanted - Vladimir Putin at their club's match with Dynamo from Kyiv. In fact, the entire stadium erupted into a song of support for Putin.
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1123 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 1:14pm https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYrRJRhXwAEVblb?format=jpg&name=large
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athos Gold Member Offline Re-educate barbarians Posts: 6421 Hong Kong Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1124 - Jul 28^th, 2022 at 1:19pm A Chinese volunteer soldiers captured a Ukrainian tank. https://twitter.com/i/status/1550000419790888960
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