Australian Politics Forum - Ukraine, Russia, Putin

MeisterEckhart

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Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:17am

Despite his disastrous logistical miscalculations, his anger at the Russian military’s strategic incompetence, his shock-and-awe battering by unwavering Ukrainian resistance, his underestimation of the world’s resolve against him, crippling sanctions, his surprise at NATO’s unity and self-control, Europe’s unanimous solidarity with Ukraine, his purging of his inner-circle advisors - indicating paranoia - Putin is rolling the dice for an outcome favouring himself, Russia, and Russia-aligned Ukrainians.

Whatever his presumptions were, from which he has now been rudely disabused, or even what his original objectives were, he appears to now have two goals in mind:

To drive all resistant Ukrainians west by all-out, scorched-earth, destruction of eastern Ukrainian cities, followed by an ethnic cleansing of all remaining non-Russian-aligned eastern Ukrainians.

To impose a partition of Ukraine into east (including Crimea) and west. The former likely to be subsumed into Russia (as opposed to being recognized as the sovereign nation of ‘East Ukraine’).

I’d bet this is the deal that the world will accept, with NATO and Europe tasked with convincing Zelensky of its realpolitik imperative; leaving Zelensky to sell the outcome to Ukrainians.

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issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #1 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:32am Essentially, Putin is holding a gun to Europe's head, while his thugs rough up a neighbour. It will work in the short term.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #2 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:38am

issuevoter wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:32am:

Essentially, Putin is holding a gun to Europe's head, while his thugs rough up a neighbour. It will work in the short term.

Putin's reference to a nuclear exchange is the card he is playing - a call to the west and the world - to play the next card, which appears to be forgoing the risk of a widened war leading to 'World War III' (a phrase already parroted throughout the world) and preparing the Ukrainian people for the inevitability of partition.

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Marla

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #3 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:41am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:38am:

Putin's reference to a nuclear exchange is the card he is playing - a call to the west and the world - to play the next card, which appears to be forgoing the risk of a widened war leading to 'World War III' (a phrase already parroted throughout the world) and preparing the Ukrainian people for the inevitability of partition.

As usual, you have zero idea what you talking about.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #4 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:44am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:41am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:38am:

Putin's reference to a nuclear exchange is the card he is playing - a call to the west and the world - to play the next card, which appears to be forgoing the risk of a widened war leading to 'World War III' (a phrase already parroted throughout the world) and preparing the Ukrainian people for the inevitability of partition.

As usual, you have zero idea what you talking about.

I noticed you ranted in another thread about Russians as fascists and how you'd like to kill all Russians. Have you heard of Svoboda and their current collaboration with the Ukrainian government in defence of Ukraine?

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Marla

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #5 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:49am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:44am:

I noticed you ranted in another thread about Russians as fascists and how you'd like to kill all Russians. Have you heard of Svoboda and their current collaboration with the Ukrainian government in defence of Ukraine?

Oh no! Not the whataboutism argument.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #6 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:53am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:49am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:44am:

I noticed you ranted in another thread about Russians as fascists and how you'd like to kill all Russians. Have you heard of Svoboda and their current collaboration with the Ukrainian government in defence of Ukraine?

Oh no! Not the whataboutism argument.

America! Where history is what happened last week.

By your own logic (and words), shouldn't it also 'make you hot' that any far-right group is eliminated?

Or do you think there are good far-right groups and bad ones?

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Marla

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #7 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:55am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:53am:

America! Where history is what happened last week.

By your own logic (and words), shouldn't it also 'make you hot' that any far-right group is eliminated?

Or do you think there are good far-right groups and bad ones?

Makes me hot when any fascist is eliminated.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #8 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:56am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:55am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:53am:

America! Where history is what happened last week.

By your own logic (and words), shouldn't it also 'make you hot' that any far-right group is eliminated?

Or do you think there are good far-right groups and bad ones?

Makes me hot when any fascist is eliminated.

How about ones protecting Ukrainian civilians?

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Marla

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #9 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:58am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:56am:

How about ones protecting Ukrainian civilians?

Oh I see. Once again in your usual pseudo-intellectual arguments you read about a far right fringe group and clusterf-ked them all together. Asa I said, you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #10 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:00am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:58am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 6:56am:

How about ones protecting Ukrainian civilians?

Oh I see. Once again in your usual pseudo-intellectual arguments you read about a far right fringe group and clusterf-ked them all together. Asa I said, you have no clue as to what you are talking about.

Which group was protecting Ukrainian citizens in that theatre in Mariupol?

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Marla Gold Member Offline A joint a day keeps the MAGA away Posts: 15048 Colorado Gender:	Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end? Reply #11 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:03am I'll take pseudo-intellectual arguments over Mariupol for $1,000 Alex. Get a life, you creep.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #12 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:08am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:03am:

I'll take pseudo-intellectual arguments over Mariupol for $1,000 Alex.

Get a life, you creep.

When this is over, how does Zelensky extricate the Ukrainian armed services and political infrastructure from Svoboda, whose members will now be able to claim they also spilled their blood in defense of Ukraine?

As I said, as an American, you're bred to be ignorant of history and world political geography.

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Marla

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #13 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:26am

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:08am:

When this is over, how does Zelensky extricate the Ukrainian armed services and political infrastructure from Svoboda, whose members will now be able to claim they also spilled their blood in defense Ukraine?

As I said, as an American, you're bred to be ignorant of history and world political geography.

Oh, I'm sorry, kangaroo rooter, I did not know your "down under" feces don't stink. My bad.

What is your arguiment again? Oh, that's right, you don't have one. Political geography? Such as? how about how Mother Russia is a such a shithole country it has been the terrain of so many invasions including, need I mention, the extermination war launched by Nazi Germany only 80 years ago, which claimed the lives of between 30 and 40 million citizens.

Bu this is about "history" right, you Foster's drinking spastic retard. Funny how you Putin/Russian war sympathizers conveniently overlook Putin of the mob scene outside Stasi headquarters in Berlin back 1989. You know, that incident affected him more than the enduring societal recollection of the “Great Patriotic War” and its aftershocks that lead to his fascistic autocratic state?

Get the f-k out of here with your lame right-wing pseudo-intellectual drivel. You are part of the problem.

That whole bugger- king country's history has been one momentous event after another such as as wars and revolutions invariably raise complex problems of causation. So do go on and Google some more claptrap horseshit of history and its indispensable foundation of serious political analysis, kangaroo boy.

So go on, give me more of your smug knowledge in any discussion of Russia. That country was the crux of arguably the most significant political event of the twentieth century, the 1917 October Revolution (something I'm sure you know nothing about) whose historical, political and intellectual legacy still reverberates to this day. Shame fascist depots like Putin f- ked it all up. So yeah, the only good Russian these days is a dead one.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: Ukraine, Russia, Putin – So how does it all end?
Reply #14 - Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:37am

Marla wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:26am:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Mar 21^st, 2022 at 7:08am:

When this is over, how does Zelensky extricate the Ukrainian armed services and political infrastructure from Svoboda, whose members will now be able to claim they also spilled their blood in defense Ukraine?

As I said, as an American, you're bred to be ignorant of history and world political geography.

Oh, I'm sorry, kangaroo rooter, I did not know your "down under" feces don't stink. My bad.

What is your arguiment again? Oh, that's right, you don't have one. Political geography? Such as? how about how Mother Russia is a such a shithole country it has been the terrain of so many invasions including, need I mention, the extermination war launched by Nazi Germany only 80 years ago, which claimed the lives of between 30 and 40 million citizens.

Bu this is about "history" right, you Foster's drinking spastic retard. Funny how you Putin/Russian war sympathizers conveniently overlook Putin of the mob scene outside Stasi headquarters in Berlin back 1989. You know, that incident affected him more than the enduring societal recollection of the “Great Patriotic War” and its aftershocks that lead to his fascistic autocratic state?

Get the f-k out of here with your lame right-wing pseudo-intellectual drivel. You are part of the problem.

That whole bugger- king country's history has been one momentous event after another such as as wars and revolutions invariably raise complex problems of causation. So do go on and Google some more claptrap horseshit of history and its indispensable foundation of serious political analysis, kangaroo boy.

So go on, give me more of your smug knowledge in any discussion of Russia. That country was the crux of arguably the most significant political event of the twentieth century, the 1917 October Revolution (something I'm sure you know nothing about) whose historical, political and intellectual legacy still reverberates to this day. Shame fascist depots like Putin f- ked it all up. So yeah, the only good Russian these days is a dead one.

See! There you go! American ignorance - Australians don't drink Fosters!

Even Lenin thought Russia was too backward for communism. He was hoping the communist revolution would happen first in Germany (everyone having given up on it happening in Britain). He needn't have worried; Communism has failed everywhere.

As an American, you need to continue to chew on the aftermath of slavery which, to this day, haunts the US and skews ethnic debate to the ultra-simplistic black and white. The rest of the world must deal with ethno-chauvinism which is a broader, more accurate and more complex problem than Americans are taught.

American ignorance is why Sikhs in the US were targeted as collaborators in 9/11... Y'know 'cos they're darkees wearing a hat'.

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