Australian Politics Forum - Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)

thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1305 - Nov 15^th, 2025 at 11:59am

Transferred from a debate with a Conservative Thatcherite "taxpayer money" ogre:

https://www.ozpolitic.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1762994556/0#11

(#11)

TGD: See the big batteries already rolled out in Oz

Lee: You mean those huge ones that can provide power for 1 hour?

TGD: That's right, we need hundreds of them; but also combined with millions of small batteries connected to PVs on all suitable household roofs, subsidized by (....free) government money.

Now we are talking GWs of storage equivalent to the entire Oz energy output and usage.

Lee: China is about the sole supplier, and like to control their product, which means controlling the market.

TGD: ever heard of transfer of technology, and manufacturing under licence?

The resulting global boom in battery manufacturing could enrich the whole world.

Lee: Yes, but you can't back up (public money) . It is not proven.

TGD: Logic - admittedly not available for the terminally deluded like you.

Note: money is created ex nihilo, by the legal issuer; what's your problem?

Lee: Ah Government by decree.

TGD: Crippled Conservative brain: 'by decree', when the private market results in market failure - and worse...

Lee: (on ownership of resources): ever heard of MRRT?

TGD: as if that's a defence of your absurd argument re ownership of fossils in the ground, cf 'ownership' of sunshine and wind.

Note: fossils in the ground belong to the Commonwealth.....sunshine and wind belong to the world; 'ownership' is moot....

........

For all deluded Thatcherite "taxpayer money" ignoramuses:

'Public Money: Public Good'

https://publicmoneypublicgood.net/

“The ultimate, hidden truth of the world is that it is something that we make, and could just as easily make differently.”

— David Graeber

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« Last Edit: Nov 15^th, 2025 at 12:25pm by thegreatdivide »

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1306 - Nov 15^th, 2025 at 2:00pm

You'll never force your 1% Abos to work for a living while ever they are allowed to make specious claims for everything. Why would they?

Why would a Musso with four wives get a job when the gu'mint pays him dole or pension while his four 'single mother' wives' get single mothers plus - apparently - each get to claim all the kids in the 'extended' family?

$7k a fortnight .. who'd work when all you need to do is go from 'wife' to 'wife' - enjoy a bit of peace and pussy - catch up with the kids - maybe sprog another brat - and Uncle Albo pays you to do it!!

No wonder they all think we're stupid and too lazy or too cowed down after decades of brutal social science punishment to stand up and tell them..... two words....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 114362 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #1307 - Nov 15^th, 2025 at 6:20pm MMT led to the housing bubble:
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1308 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:23pm

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on Nov 15^th, 2025 at 2:00pm:

You'll never force your 1% Abos to work for a living while ever they are allowed to make specious claims for everything. Why would they?

Interestingly, after years of negotiation between Cannon-Brookes' proposed massive 6 GW SunCable PV project and a NT aboriginal land council, an agreement has been reached to proceed with the $30 billion project.

Obviously the project will deliver very attractive benefits to the local aboriginal communty, hence the agreement - as well as clean energy to the NT and Singapore-Indonesia (via an undersea cable).

Quote:

Why would a Musso with four wives get a job when the gu'mint pays him dole or pension while his four 'single mother' wives' get single mothers plus - apparently - each get to claim all the kids in the 'extended' family?

Your racist narrative exposed: well-paying secure jobs are attractive to anyone regardless of race, including real abos (...."1%" ?), as shown above.

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« Last Edit: Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:14pm by thegreatdivide »

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 114362 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #1309 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:31pm MMT is caught up in the Derivative markets. The $600 Trillion Market That Will Crash Everything in 2025
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1310 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:36pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 15^th, 2025 at 6:20pm:

MMT led to the housing bubble:

Your tired, ignorant ' money printing' narrative?

(I'm not tempted to watch the video, unless you can confirm it's NOT your usual ignorant 'money printing by the RBA' narrative.

In fact, the Oz housing bubble was caused by

1. Governments abandoning public housing after the Thatcher-Reagan-Friedman Neoclassical orthodoxy took hold.

2. Increasing demand in Oz leading to higher prices fueled by a private bank led
boom in bank lending.

Indeed, a credit boom via by 'money printing' (ex nihilo) in private banks, which is always the main source of new money in the economy.

Not money printing by the government.

Do try to keep up.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1311 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:45pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:31pm:

MMT is caught up in the Derivative markets.

The $600 Trillion Market That Will Crash Everything in 2025

Again, not temped to watch the video, given your ignorant and delusional 'RBA money printing' narrative, when in fact the derivatives market casino is fueled by private bank credit, as noted in my previous post.

Note: you better hope the profits of world's largest company Nvidia - to be reported tomorrow or Thursday - support its HUGE valuation by the stock market .....or buckle up for a rough ride in the finance markets...

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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 114362 Melbourne Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #1312 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:49pm TGD, Quote: Again, not temped to watch the video Yes - you won't watch anything which disagrees with your ideas. forgiven namaste
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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1313 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:01pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:49pm:

TGD,
Quote:

Again, not temped to watch the video

Yes - you won't watch anything which disagrees with your ideas.

forgiven

namaste

I said I will watch if you can confirm it's NOT a rehash of your ignorant 'RBA money printing' narrative.

As for your scary $600 trillion derivatives market story, don't blame MMT which is concerned with funding resources and services development in the REAL economy, not the 'get rich with borrowed money schemes' in the derivatives casinos led by JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and other pied-pipers...

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Bobby.

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1314 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:04pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:49pm:

TGD,
Quote:

Again, not temped to watch the video

Yes - you won't watch anything which disagrees with your ideas.

forgiven

namaste

I said I will watch if yoi can confirm it's NOT a rehash of your ignorant 'RBA money printing' narrative.

As for your scary $600 trillion derivatives market story, don't blame MMT which is concerned with funding resources and services development in the REAL economy, not the 'get rich with borrowed money schemes in the derivatives casinos led by the JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs etc peid-pipers...

It's all part of the greed of borrowing MMT funny money
and gambling with extreme leverage in highly risky bets.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1315 - Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:26pm

Bobby. wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:04pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 9:01pm:

Bobby. wrote on Nov 18^th, 2025 at 8:49pm:

TGD,
Quote:

Again, not temped to watch the video

Yes - you won't watch anything which disagrees with your ideas.

forgiven

namaste

I said I will watch if yoi can confirm it's NOT a rehash of your ignorant 'RBA money printing' narrative.

As for your scary $600 trillion derivatives market story, don't blame MMT which is concerned with funding resources and services development in the REAL economy, not the 'get rich with borrowed money schemes in the derivatives casinos led by the JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs etc peid-pipers...

It's all part of the greed of borrowing MMT funny money
and gambling with extreme leverage in highly risky bets.

One last time - listen carefully:

All new money is 'funny money' ie created out of thin air, whether in the nation's Treasury (as per MMT - but currently forbidden), or private banks when they write loans for credit-worthy customers , or - rarely - in the central bank in emergencies like recessions and pandemics, when central bank 'funny money' is accounted as government debt.

Spend some time to let it sink in...

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thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1316 - Yesterday at 1:48pm

Musk today says "most people won't need to work in 10 or 20 years time".

(....presumably inspired by the fact the Nvidia-AI boom appears to be still intact....)

And what does he have in mind - a socialist paradise in which all are supported by a healthy universal income, and free to pursue their own interests?

.........

Hopefully before that time, he will wake up to the fact that currency-issuing governments can eradicate poverty NOW, because such governments are not limited by money, deficits and debt; rather they need to mobilize and manage allocation of available resources while avoiding inflation - even as most people still need to work.

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kU6mdn74 New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 17	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #1317 - Yesterday at 3:01pm Quote: Musk today says "most people won't need to work in 10 or 20 years time". Sounds like antic Athenian democracy only the manual labor will be performed by robots (robotnik) instead of human slaves.
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 53773 Gender:	Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) Reply #1318 - Yesterday at 4:36pm Asimov has already proved why AI-Robots will never work for humanity, not even as slaves.
Back to top	AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1319 - Today at 8:23am

kU6mdn74 wrote Yesterday at 3:01pm:

Quote:

Musk today says "most people won't need to work in 10 or 20 years time".

Sounds like antic Athenian democracy only the manual labor will be performed by robots (robotnik) instead of human slaves.

Yes, human civilization is proving itself capable of progress, despite the blind, competitive, self-defense instincts based in the pre-conscious reptilian brain located at the back of every human skull.

But it's a pity Musk - who said "currencies will be irrelevant and work will be optional" - is still deluded by Neoclassical low-tax/low-spending/balanced-budget economic orthodoxy: he like most of the population thinks the government's budget is like the citizen's own household budget.

(Note: the currency-issuing government ISSUES the currency, the citizens are USERS of the currency).

Hence Musk - as the penny pinching CEO of DOGE - fell out with Trump because the latter's 'Big Beautiful Bill' increases US deficits and debt...Trump's instinct to ignore the government debt when the US economy is growing and inflation is low, is correct.

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« Last Edit: Today at 1:13pm by thegreatdivide »

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