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Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) (Read 132633 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1275 - Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:34pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 3:45pm:
What happened in Venezuela from money printing?


Government income from oil collapsed, and the nation could no longer afford essential imports (unlike Oz) - hence the resulting hyperinflation as Maduro tried to maintain Chavez' (up to then, successful and popular) welfare state.


They tried to print their way out of a recession - it failed.


Recessions, like inflationary episodes, have many causes.
It's important to identify the actual cause(s) in each specific case.

Quote:
What is Australia doing?


Practicing 'austerity'  - eg denying home ownership to an entire generation, and denying timely home care packages for aged people who are dying without assistance...

All in the name of achieving  'balanced budgets' ....
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Bobby.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1276 - Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:37pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:34pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 3:45pm:
What happened in Venezuela from money printing?


Government income from oil collapsed, and the nation could no longer afford essential imports (unlike Oz) - hence the resulting hyperinflation as Maduro tried to maintain Chavez' (up to then, successful and popular) welfare state.


They tried to print their way out of a recession - it failed.


Recessions, like inflationary episodes, have many causes.
It's important to identify the actual cause(s) in each specific case.

Quote:
What is Australia doing?


Practicing 'austerity'  - eg denying home ownership to an entire generation, and denying timely home care packages for aged people who are dying without assistance...

All in the name of achieving  'balanced budgets' ....



Yet they will find $368 billion for 8 submarines - 3 of them 2nd hand.  WTF?

How? - they will print money as they don't have that money.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1277 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 8:34am
 
The new 'democratic socialist' policies envisioned for New York:

(ABC News Australia)

New York City's mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani is planning a socialist overhaul. This is his plan

New York City's newly-elected mayor, Zohran Mamdani, is promising to make people's lives cheaper, but even some of his supporters are sceptical on whether he can deliver.

The city faces a deepening housing and cost-of-living crisis that has pushed thousands into homelessness or out of the city entirely.

The self-described democratic socialist is proposing bold measures to tackle these issues, but delivering on them will hinge on generating billions in new revenue and winning support from state politicians.

Here is what Mr Mamdani has promised New York City residents over the next four years.

Freeze some rents

New York City is notorious for its sky-high housing costs — some of the priciest in the world.

To curb sudden rent spikes and rising homelessness, Mr Mamdani is proposing a four-year freeze on the city's 1 million rent-stabilised apartments.

While this proposal would not require any additional city council funding, the freeze needs approval from the Rent Guidelines Board.

Critics argue this proposal fails to tackle the city's skyrocketing market-rate apartments or its broader housing shortage.

To address this, Mr Mamdani has put forward a plan to build 200,000 new affordable housing units over the next decade.

Expand free childcare

Mr Mamdani has pledged to make childcare free for every child in the city under the age of five.

This is the incoming mayor's most expensive proposal. His campaign estimates it could cost up to $US6 billion ($9.25 billion) a year.

The city already offers free childcare for children aged three and four years of age.

Despite that, childcare still costs New York City parents upwards of roughly $US20,000 a year a child.

Mr Mamdani argues his expanded policy would help more mothers return to the workforce, generating an estimated $US900 million in additional income tax revenue.

No-cost buses

New York City's buses are among the slowest in the United States, often crawling through streets clogged with traffic that are not designed for public transport.

Mr Mamdani is proposing to make every bus across the city's five boroughs free for the next four years — a move he says would boost patronage as shown by a previous pilot program.

His plan also includes expanding dedicated bus lanes to speed up service.

The proposal has drawn scepticism from some critics who point out that many low-income riders already board without paying.

This policy is estimated to cost the city $US800 million every year and would require approval from the state-run Metropolitan Transit Authority.

Tax the rich (more)

New York City is home to the highest concentration of millionaires and billionaires in the world.

Mr Mamdani argues that those at the top should contribute more to help fund the city's public services.

His plan would raise the city tax rate, which is currently set at 3.876 percentage points, by 2 points. New York City's ultra rich are already subjected to the highest non-federal income tax rates in the country.

Mr Mamdani also wants to increase corporate taxes on the city's biggest businesses.

Doing all this would require approval from state politicians, including New York Governor Kathy Hochul — a moderate Democrat who backs Mr Mamdani but opposes raising the tax rate.

Create city-owned grocery stores

In a bid to bring down the soaring cost of groceries, Mr Mamdani is proposing to create a city-run grocery store in all five boroughs of New York City.

The initiative would start as a pilot program and be expanded if successful.

These stores would buy and sell goods at wholesale prices, aiming to prevent price gouging along the supply chain.

This policy is set to cost an estimated $US60 million in its first phase.

Already high grocery prices in the city have increased more since US President Donald Trump returned to the White House earlier this year and introduced tariffs on some items.

Arrest Benjamin Netanyahu

Mr Mamdani says he would direct the the NYPD to arrest Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu if he visited New York City.

The pledge reflects his pro-Palestinian stance. He has been scathing of Mr Netanyahu, who is the subject of an International Criminal Court arrest warrant for alleged war crimes and and crimes against humanity over the course of the war in Gaza.

While Mr Netanyahu is a frequent visitor to the city, experts say such an arrest is unlikely and unlawful.

Mr Mamdani has also pledged to divest city funds from Israeli companies and institutions, signalling a clear departure from mainstream Democratic Party positions that has typically offered unwavering support for Israel.


Always great to see a 'democratic socialist' win a free election.

BUT.....

the establishment will destroy him; he won't be able to increase taxes on the wealthy.

Pity free public money  (treasury issued n money) is still rejected by the ignorant mainstream who have no understanding that new money is always created out of thin air.

The real concern for society is managing  competition between the public and private sectors, not 'balancing a (government) budget'. 
 




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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1278 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 8:47am
 
And right on cue, the 'tech exec' whose parents escaped 'communism' lodges his objections:

(Daily Mail)

Tech exec warns of NYC's decline under Mamdani

(©antoniogarciamartinez.com)

Martínez sounded the alarm on Mamdani as 'prognostications from someone who saw this movie in San Francisco', suggesting he fears NY will end up like his home (SF). He predicted rent will skyrocket, the quality of public schools will diminish and that the local media will be 'flying cover for all of it'. Martínez shared his terrifying prophesy on social media just minutes after Mamdani was officially declared mayor-elect. 'Great time to mention that I've officially given up searching for a home in SF, and am moving to NYC to be closer to the Base team (his employer),' Martínez tweeted Tuesday night.

My parents might have fled communism, but I'm moving to newly-elected socialism to work on onchain hyper-capitalism. Man plans and God laughs.' He said he was abandoning real estate shopping in San Francisco because it was 'too expensive, too much hassle' and was 'not even sure I want to be here long-term.' But he also disclosed his apparent fears for the city he will soon call home. Citing the crime wave that has ravaged the Bay Area lately (in SF), Martínez warned that under Mamdani's leadership New Yorkers can expect a rise in unfettered shoplifting, car break-ins, assaults and all types of criminal activity.


.......

Ah...no recognition that massive inequality and entrenched social disadvantage itself is a cause of crime....which the 'radical  socialist' (according to Trump) Gavin Newsom failed to fix. 

Newsom is mainstream, Mamdani is radical...hopefully he becomes aware he has access to free money at his fingertips, to solve some of NY's crushing social problems.

....... 

Note about democratically-elected socialists, ie, real socialists like Mamdani and Sanders, not fake socialists like Newsom who belongs to the same Party as the silly woman Perlosi who once asserted  to a group of students "we are all capitalists in America"  (despite Trump's absurd designation of the Democratic Party as 'radical socialists':

They often end up being destroyed by the CIA...

1.  Mossedagh in Iran in 1953.

2.  Allende in Chile in 1973

3.  Chavez in Venezuala:

Venezuela's economy was heavily dependent on oil exports, so the drop in oil prices was a significant blow to government revenue and a major contributor to the economic crisis.

Sanctions imposed by 'other countries' in response to 'human rights abuses, corruption, and democratic backsliding' further hurt the economy.


....ie, the US - leader of the "free world",  instead of assisting a democratically-elected socialist leader to deal with a collapse in global oil prices, actively sought to destroy his government via sanctions designed to worsen the economy.

Deplorable.   

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« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2025 at 9:20am by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Jasin
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1279 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 8:58am
 
Today makes the USSR of the 70s & 80s feel appealing in some respects.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1280 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 9:31am
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:37pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:34pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:17pm:
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 3:45pm:
What happened in Venezuela from money printing?


Government income from oil collapsed, and the nation could no longer afford essential imports (unlike Oz) - hence the resulting hyperinflation as Maduro tried to maintain Chavez' (up to then, successful and popular) welfare state.


They tried to print their way out of a recession - it failed.


Recessions, like inflationary episodes, have many causes.
It's important to identify the actual cause(s) in each specific case.

Quote:
What is Australia doing?


Practicing 'austerity'  - eg denying home ownership to an entire generation, and denying timely home care packages for aged people who are dying without assistance...

All in the name of achieving  'balanced budgets' ....



Yet they will find $368 billion for 8 submarines - 3 of them 2nd hand.  WTF?

How? - they will print money as they don't have that money.


I'll explain your confusion between  free public money,  and central bank 'money printing' later today.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1281 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 8:33pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 5th, 2025 at 8:37pm:
Yet they will find $368 billion for 8 submarines - 3 of them 2nd hand.  WTF?

How? - they will print money as they don't have that money.


First:  all new money is created ex nihilo, whether (a) by issuance of debt-free money in the nation's treasury, or (b) by central  bank 'money printing', or - as is the case for 90% of new money under the current system - (c) in private banks when they write loans  (create credit) for credit-worthy customers. 

(a) is currently illegal.

(b) is generally confined to economic emergencies like recessions (eg GFC) or pandemics (eg, covid-19).

Note: unlike (a), central bank-issued money is accounted as government debt, which must be repaid with interest to bond holders.

(c) represents money creation in the private sector - which, when borrowed (eg by you and me), must also be repaid with interest.


Now to your questions:

1. The $368 billion is issued over the time of the contract to deliver 8 submarines (2 decades?), so the annual impact on the government budget is managable.

Note:

Over the pandemic, Australian Government gross debt increased from $534.4 billion in March 2019 to $885.5 billion in April 2022 and is now at the highest level relative to GDP (gross domestic product) since the 1950s when debt accrued during the Second World War was still on the Australian Government balance sheet

ie c. $350 billion was added to government debt over 3 years of the pandemic, a bit less than the total submarine contract with funds to be spent over some decades.

The important thing is  this "money printing" to which you allude is accounted by the bond holders who will finance the government debt.

........

Now, to save the world's governments from democracy-wrecking 'austerity' caused by attempting to 'balance their budgets', governments will need to authorize issuance of free pubic money via their national treasuries.

This will require currency-issuing governments to manage overall resource allocation, (while avoiding inflation) including by decreeing the resources required to deliver the essentials for all (determined via a political choice of the electorate) ....which implies a smaller role for the private sector - in opposition to the current orthodoxy where the private sector plays the major role in the economy.

No doubt this is what Trump means by "communism".... though I doubt 'communist' Mamdani will be asking Trump to authorize funds issued via (a).


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« Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2025 at 8:46pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Bobby.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1282 - Nov 6th, 2025 at 9:22pm
 
Thanks TGD,

the same money printing that happened in Venezuela?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venezuelan_bol%C3%ADvar


From 2016 to 2019 and again in 2020, the currency experienced hyperinflation for a total period of 38 months.[7]

The rampant inflation prompted another two redenominations. The first occurred in August 2018, when Bs.F 100,000 were exchanged for 1 sovereign bolívar (bolívar soberano in Spanish, sign: Bs.S, code: VES).[8] The second one, dubbed the "nueva expresión monetaria" or new monetary expression, occurred on 1 October 2021, when Bs.S 1,000,000 were exchanged for 1 digital bolívar[a] (bolívar digital in Spanish, sign: Bs.D, code: VED),[9][10] thus making

one digital bolívar worth 100,000,000,000,000


(1014, or Bs. 100 trillion in short scale) of the pre-2008 bolívares.


Bank notes in rubbish bins:

https://www.facebook.com/reel/850763357627250
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Bobby.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1283 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 10:35am
 

The Hidden System Controlling Your Life: The Global Debt Trap.


Nov 6, 2025 

Debt isn’t just a financial tool — it’s the invisible force shaping nations, economies, and our daily lives. From ancient clay tablets to modern digital markets, we’ve built a world dependent on endless borrowing. But what happens when the system reaches its breaking point? This video uncovers the history, the mechanics, and the future of the global debt machine — and why the next reset may already be in motion.



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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1284 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 11:23am
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 6th, 2025 at 9:22pm:
Thanks TGD,

the same money printing that happened in Venezuela?



Yes and no...which is to say:

In Venezuela, the "money printing" produced a different result - hyperinflation.

Why?

Because Venezuela was 90% dependent on one sorce of export revenue - oil.


A closer examination of the Venezuelan economy:

https://theconversation.com/what-caused-hyperinflation-in-venezuela-a-rare-blend...

These (oil) export earnings had enabled the government headed by Hugo Chavez from 1999 to 2013 to pay for social programs intended to combat poverty and inequality. From subsidies for those on low incomes to health services, the government’s spending obligations were high.

Then the global price of oil dropped. Foreign demand for the bolívar to buy Venezuelan oil crashed. As the currency’s value fell, the cost of imported goods rose. The Venezuelan economy went into crisis.

The solution of Venezuela’s new president Nicolas Maduro, who succeeded Chavez in March 2013, was to print more money.

That might seem silly, but it can keep the economy moving while it gets over a hump caused by a short-term price shock.

The Venezuelan crisis, however, just got worse as the oil price continued to fall, compounded by other factors that reduced Venezuelan oil output. International investors began looking elsewhere, driving the value of the bolívar even lower.

In these conditions, printing more money simply made the problem worse. It added to the supply of currency, pushing the value down even further. As prices rose, the government printed more money to pay its bills. This cycle is what causes hyperinflation.


Note:  "in these conditions".......ie, not all "money printing" has the same negative outcomes, it depends on the particular circumstances. 

Hence central bank money printing (normally less than c. 10% of a nation's money creation, as already noted)  in an economy with a large degree of self-sufficiency and/or export capability,  does not result in hyperinflation.

This is why central bank money printing in most economies doesn't result in out of control inflation. 

So don't worry about Oz's debt and money printing; Oz has both export and import capability. 

In the meantime, government 'austerity' is the real threat to Oz's political stability  - as in the extreme case of the US where the government shut-down continues as hyperpartisanship leads to government gridlock.

Solution?

Free public money - the subject of this board - not borrowed "printed money".

https://publicmoneypublicgood.net/











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Bobby.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1285 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 12:04pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 7th, 2025 at 10:35am:
The Hidden System Controlling Your Life: The Global Debt Trap.


Nov 6, 2025 

Debt isn’t just a financial tool — it’s the invisible force shaping nations, economies, and our daily lives. From ancient clay tablets to modern digital markets, we’ve built a world dependent on endless borrowing. But what happens when the system reaches its breaking point? This video uncovers the history, the mechanics, and the future of the global debt machine — and why the next reset may already be in motion.






Dear TGD,
did you watch that video?
It makes me more worried than ever.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1286 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 12:29pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 7th, 2025 at 10:35am:
The Hidden System Controlling Your Life: The Global Debt Trap.


Nov 6, 2025 

Debt isn’t just a financial tool — it’s the invisible force shaping nations, economies, and our daily lives. From ancient clay tablets to modern digital markets, we’ve built a world dependent on endless borrowing. But what happens when the system reaches its breaking point? This video uncovers the history, the mechanics, and the future of the global debt machine — and why the next reset may already be in motion.




At the end, the speaker admits he doesn't have a clue about fixing the manifold public and private debt crises.

That's because he doesn't know there is a difference between currency-ISSUERS  (ie, national governments) and currency-USERS, ie the private sector. 

Which is the topic of this board.

National governments - being currency-issuers - can cancel their debt at any time with money created ex nililo in the national treasury at no cost to the taxpayer.

Bobby ignores the fact most new money (in the current gruesome system) is created in private banks, ie interest bearing money - a practice which used to be called 'usury'....

Bobby's concerns about "money printing" and "inflation" have been thoroughly debunked in the last several posts here.

The real issue is proper resource allocation between the public and private sectors, to eradicate poverty - as explained at the end of #1281. 





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Bobby.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1287 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 12:52pm
 

OK then TGD,

what if our RBA decided to stop printing more money?

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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1288 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 2:41pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Nov 7th, 2025 at 12:52pm:
OK then TGD,

what if our RBA decided to stop printing more money?



Currently our RBA is not "printing" ie, creating new money** in any significant quantity; they are content to let the $trillion covid-caused "printed" debt stand, while the government attempts to achieve surpluses  and pay down debt over time.

** we are talking about digital money, not minting coins and printing paper notes which wear out and must be replaced - an operation which does not increase the money supply.

But if the governemt stopped borrowing money altogether, then it would have to increase taxes - assuming 'normal' conditions, ie, outside emergencies like recessions and pandemics when taxpayer money is insufficient to fund the immediate needs of government (in the emergency).

Meanwhile, see the following post for the opinion of a mainstream RW nut job re Rachel Reeves upcoming budget in the UK.
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Re: Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Reply #1289 - Nov 7th, 2025 at 3:01pm
 
(Daily Mail)

Opinion: Britain's doom loop has begun. The signs are everywhere

Story by Alex Brummer

My deeper concern, though, is what it reveals about the socialist creed that infects every economic decision this government makes. Labour’s disastrous belief that ministers always know best is trapping the British people and our most productive businesses in a never-ending round of tax increases and higher prices – a ‘doom loop’. Our bloated state will continue swelling even as the private sector –which generates the wealth in the first place – withers away. This government has zero appetite for cutting the size of the state – despite a national debt which, already at £2.9 trillion, is heading towards 100 per cent of our national output, meaning the public sector will soon consume every penny Britain earns.

Socialist creed?

(btw the last sentence: "public sector consuming every penny..." is meaningless waffle,the actual debt repayments depend on the headline interest rate). 

Yeh, I get the picture ...this garbage from a Thatcherite  ideologue with as much understanding of how modern fiat economies work as she had - which is to say, very little.

Note: the private sector does NOT create wealth alone, or even in the first place; both sectors are vital for wealth creation (eg pubic education, public infrastructure, public university research).

So - bring on government 'austerity'.... after all, it won't hurt ogres like Brummer.

Meanwhile the guy in your video who claims  abandoning the gold standard caused the unrepayable debt crises; there isn't enough gold in the world to cover global trade, which is why Nixon was forced to ditch the gold standard, as the US changed from being the world's largest creditor nation to the world's largest debtor nation.


The real problem of course is Reeves is forced to tax taxpayers as per ancient custom....
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