Australian Politics Forum - A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia

lee

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #450 - Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 6:22pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

What hierachy?

So China has no hierarchy? That would mean they also have no responsibility when things go wrong. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

drawing from a vast field of local officials who themselves hold office by consensus.

Who is in charge of formulating this "consensus"? Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

Now you are displaying errors in logic, confusing personal beliefs/opinions, with China's one-party consensus government's policies guided by the principle of common prosperity.

You are the one using "consensus" with no overarching opinion on how this "consesnsus" is formulated. For there to be a consensus you need

1. candidates
2. an election of some type

Is it a formal election? Who decides the candidates? Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

(sigh) ALL politicians (just like you) erroneously believe the c-i government, which is an ISSUER of the currency - must 'balance its budget', which is the cause of govt. "austerity" creating widespread financial disstress; they believe this because citizens who are USERS of the currency are deluded (like you) by their own experiences in needing to balance their houshold budgets, to avoid the debtor's prison.

All poiticians? That would mean there are no politicians whoi believe in MMT. And yet you trust the polioticians to fix it. So you have nothing. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

You are confusing temporary loss of income (while repairs are made) with being broke; whereas the 'great unwashed' ie rioters who are demoralized by the system and are indeed permanently relying on 'welfare' payments to survive.

Ah, so you have prrof that for those shopkeepers affected it is "only" temporary? Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

That also needs to be explored by the aurhorites looking to understand his current mental state.

Ah you want to forget his property on which he lives, with the detritus of his poverty, of copious empty spirit and beer bottles. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

I reported (via google AI) Nugent's complaints discovered in social media; obviously the authorities need to examine the relevance of those complaints re any motivation for the attack.

Only those bits t hat favoured your conclusions. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

No "backtracking" on my part, just YOUR false conclusions, to wit:

Quote:
BTW- His social posts - Did they stop in 2022? That is your timeline -4 long years ago.

You were the one quoting his socila media posts, which only dhowed to 2022. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

Your error:

Not my error. I followed the quote to its logical conclusion

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

See Jasin's response...

And? What does that have to do with anything?

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Frank Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61321 Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #451 - Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 8:01pm Quote: China's one party meritocracy
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21766 Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #452 - Oct 23^rd, 2026 at 5:15pm *
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lee Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21766 Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #453 - Oct 23^rd, 2026 at 5:15pm *
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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #454 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am

lee wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 6:22pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2026 at 2:28pm:

What hierachy?

So China has no hierarchy?

(I'll use yours - and FD's - silly diversionary question technique...)

So democracies don't have hierachies?

Quote:

Who is in charge of formulating this "consensus"? Cool

Who is in charge of selecting candidates to stand for adversarial parties in democracies?

Quote:

You are the one using "consensus" with no overarching opinion on how this "consesnsus" is formulated. For there to be a consensus you need

1. candidates
2. an election of some type

Is it a formal election? Who decides the candidates? Cool

https://aceproject.org/ace-en/topics/pc/pcb/pcb02/pcb02a/default

In each election, thousands of persons could potentially stand for election, but it would be impossible for voters to make an informed choice among them. Political parties therefore act as useful and necessary gate-keepers narrowing down the list of candidates to a small enough pool.

Parties can select their candidates in many different ways. In numerous cases, the existing legal framework establishes that political parties should “democratically” elect their candidates, but this concept is very vague, and there are few if any applicable legal provisions. Only in a few cases does legislation lay down the process by which candidates should be selected, and the selection process can have a direct impact on the depth and breadth of the democratic process—particularly if a given party’s candidate selection process is non-transparent.

So by "consensus", where the rules aren't backed by legal provisions, as noted.

Quote:

All poiticians? That would mean there are no politicians whoi believe in MMT. And yet you trust the polioticians to fix it. So you have nothing. Cool

Indeed most politicians don't believe in MMT, and indeed many haven't heard of it, so determined is the media to suppress MMT; and, apart from the blind pollies who do know about MMT and yet reject it because it violates free markets), pollies accept the mainstream TINA dogma - and so persist with the silly low-tax/low spending versus high tax/high spending games, shouting at one-another in Question Time; while low income groups experiencing chronic financial stress because governements are cutting necessary public/social services, as the population ages.

What have I got?

I've got the reality that dysfunctional 'austerity' TINA economics is causing political mayhem around the globe......

Quote:

Ah, so you have prrof that for those shopkeepers affected it is "only" temporary? Cool

"Those shopkeepers affected" were seen boarding up their shops again the following weekend - presumably because the riots are hopefully only temporary - and the govt. is bringing in the army to fire on its own rioting citizens, oblivuous, like you, as to WHY they are rioting, apart from the majrioty who are peaceful protestors.

Quote:

Ah you want to forget his property on which he lives, with the detritus of his poverty, of copious empty spirit and beer bottles. Wink

No, I don't want to igore that: I want the police to tell us what motivated him to attack the politician Haines.

Quote:

Only those bits t hat favoured your conclusions. Grin

No; unlike you, I want ALL the evidence for his motivation to attack Haines to be revealed.

Quote:

You were the one quoting his socila media posts, which only dhowed to 2022. Roll Eyes

And you are ignoring his circumstances from 2022 on.

Quote:

Not my error. I followed the quote to its logical conclusion

Logic from you is an oxymoron, as shown above.

Quote:

And? What does that have to do with anything?

FD's silly 'ask a question' technique - instead of addressing the point made - is a speciality of yours.

Or maybe it's just the ideologically blind Conservative brain: eg according to you I'm a 'lefty' because I support China's common prosperity mission, as opposed to your Conservative 'lifters' versus 'leaners' bs.

More on Nugent:

(google AI)

Yes, Brendan Nugent was estranged from his family.

• Cut off contact: Over the preceding few years, Nugent had largely isolated himself and cut off his family, with his father, Rod Nugent, and stepmother, Christine Cunningham, reporting they had not had a civil interaction with him in at least four years, and last saw him briefly on New Year's Eve 2025 when he ranted at them.
• Family involvement of mediators: The family had previously hired a mediator to handle communication with him, though Nugent sacked the mediator about a month before his arrest.
• Financial and property arrangements: Despite the estrangement, his father had secretly finalized a property arrangement just days before the October 2026 incident to secure a home (on Greater Alpine Road near Wangaratta) for Nugent so he would not be homeless.
• Police investigation: Victoria Police have been investigating whether the October 2026 car attack on federal MP Helen Haines (who was a long-time family friend) was used as a "proxy" for Nugent's hostility toward his own family.
•

(RNZ)
Once a praised environmentalist, Brendan Nugent became isolated and frustrated with the system

The plot thickens, stay tuned...

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« Last Edit: Oct 26^th, 2026 at 3:00pm by thegreatdivide »

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Bobby.

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #455 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 1:12pm

Dear TGD - please stop bloviating:

bloviating meaning

To bloviate means to speak or write at length in a pompous, boastful, or self-important way, usually while offering very little real substance or meaning.

Key Details

• Definition: To talk on and on while blowing "hot air"—using big, inflated words to sound important without actually saying anything useful.

• Origin: An Americanism originating in the late 19th-century American Midwest (around Ohio), likely formed by combining the word blow with the mock-Latin suffix -ate.

• Famous Association: The word is famously linked to U.S. President Warren G. Harding, who used it and was widely mocked for his own long-winded, vague political speeches. Harding once defined Bloviation as "the art of speaking for as long as the occasion warrants, and saying nothing".

• Common Synonyms: Pontificate, rant, ramble, or windbag.

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lee

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #456 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 1:31pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

So democracies don't have hierachies?

Notionally they do. They are called various names, Cabinet ministers. But you said China had no hierarchies, Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Political parties therefore act as useful and necessary gate-keepers narrowing down the list of candidates to a small enough pool.

Ah, gatekeepers. That says it all. gatekeepers keep the proles at bay. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Indeed politicians don't believe in MMT, they accept mainstream TINA dogma

So all you have is blather and it must be correct. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

I've got the reality that dysfunctional 'austerity' TINA economics is causing political mayhem around the globe......

No you haven't. That is your asssumption. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

"Those shopkeepers affected" were seen boarding up their shops again the following weekend - presumably because the riots are hopefully only temporary -

Ah, prsumably, That is anotrher assumption. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

No, I don't want to igore that:

you were the one that called him "homeless". Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

No; unlike you, I want ALL the evidence for his motivation to attack Haines to be revealed.

So, So far you have no evidence. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

And you are ignoring his circumstances from 2022 on.

No you haven't provided any. Your assumptions are not evidence, and I don't need to do your work for you. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Logic from you is an oxymoron, as shown above.

Whereas you are just a moron. Sorry, sometimes your rhetoric goes ove rthe top. And that means I may also do that. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

FD's silly 'ask a question' technique - instead of addressing the point made - is a speciality of yours.

No. You specifically suggested I was FD. Man up. Show it. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

as opposed to your Conservative 'lifters' versus 'leaners'

What is a "leaner"? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

hey had not had a civil interaction with him in at least four years, and last saw him briefly on New Year's Eve 2025 when he ranted at them.

So they were supposed to have a civil interaction when he ranted at them, one year ago? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Family involvement of mediators: The family had previously hired a mediator to handle communication with him, though Nugent sacked the mediator about a month before his arrest.

That is then solely on him. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Financial and property arrangements: Despite the estrangement, his father had secretly finalized a property arrangement just days before the October 2026 incident to secure a home (on Greater Alpine Road near Wangaratta) for Nugent so he would not be homeless.

Ah, So he was about to get kicked out of where he was living, not homeless, and his estranged parents went in to bat for him again. Sounds very apposite. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Police investigation: Victoria Police have been investigating whether the October 2026 car attack on federal MP Helen Haines (who was a long-time family friend) was used as a "proxy" for Nugent's hostility toward his own family.

O, a proxy for his family who were still bankrolling him, but it wasn't enough. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 11:24am:

Once a praised environmentalist, Brendan Nugent became isolated and frustrated with the system

oh he became an isolated, frustrated environmentalist and took it out on someone. Roll Eyes

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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #457 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 2:54pm

lee wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 1:31pm:

[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1642444396/454#454 date=1792977886]

So democracies don't have hierachies?

Interesting debating technique: YOU introduced the term 'hierachy' in #447, when asking your question "so China doesn't have hierachy?"

Hence your diversionary response to my assertion re Chinese consensus politics, which also happens in Western political parties when they select candidates for election by the entire electorate in an adversarial-party general election.

Quote:

Notionally they do. They are called various names, Cabinet ministers. But you said China had no hierarchies, Cool

Thank you; and no I didn't say that, you did, as noted above.

Quote:

Ah, gatekeepers. That says it all. gatekeepers keep the proles at bay. Cool

Yes, hence consensus selection by the 'gatekeepers'.

Quote:

No you haven't. That is your asssumption. Cool

Common sense: if govt. delivers the essentials for all, people don't riot about lack of public housing, public education, public health care and lack of jobs. (It's bad in the EU, but even New York voters are turning to the socialist left....and social breakdown caused by financial stress is happening in Oz, with family violence and violence against pollies increasing.

You ofcourse won't explain the increasing disillusionment (of a sizable proportion of the electorate) with mainstream politics.

Quote:

Ah, prsumably, That is anotrher assumption. Cool

Dummy lee again: shopkeepers are boarding up their shops in order to (insert your own words...)

Quote:

you were the one that called him "homeless". Cool

Dummy lee: I reported content supplied by AI from Nugent's social media; the police will sort out the details.

Quote:

Whereas you are just a moron. Sorry, sometimes your rhetoric goes ove rthe top. And that means I may also do that. Cool

No: I read the relevant reports and I am waiting for the investigating authorites to determine Nugent's motivation, whereas you are so ideologically crippled you have resorted to attacking me.

Quote:

No. You specifically suggested I was FD. Man up. Show it. Cool

Your debating technique is as ideoloigally blind as FD's, as anyone following this exchange can observe.

Stop mindlessly attacking me re Nugent's motivation, and dare to look at Nugent's motivations instead.

Quote:

What is a "leaner"? Roll Eyes

A worker, as opposed to an 'aspirational' shopkeeper, in Conservative ideology. I note you didn't ask who are the 'lifters' in that Conservative bs rhetoric.

Quote:

So they were supposed to have a civil interaction when he ranted at them, one year ago? ;

You deplorable low IQ ideologue: the point is Nugent was alienated from his family at least 4 years ago.

Quote:

That is then solely on him. Cool

Low IQ lee: Nugent is responsible for his actions, but did govt. 'austerity' economics play a role in his social alienation?

...while 'austerity' economics is causing political mayhem around the world....and while you think housing and c-o-l crises should be meekly accepted by the populace.

Note: Even if pollies agree to stop shouting at oneanother, the current economic crises won't go away, under our Neoclassical 'austerity' regime.

Quote:

Ah, So he was about to get kicked out of where he was living, not homeless, and his estranged parents went in to bat for him again. Sounds very apposite. Roll Eyes

Why was he "about to get kicked out of where he was living", and what is "apposite" about his mental state vis a vis his estranged parent's actions? These are among the many questions the relevant authorities need to answer.

Quote:

O, a proxy for his family who were still bankrolling him, but it wasn't enough. ;

Dummy lee: estrangement and mental illness isn't necessarily amenable to an offer of a home.

Quote:

oh he became an isolated, frustrated environmentalist and took it out on someone. Roll Eyes

Looks like it - frustrated by a failing system rendered vicious by Neoclassical 'austerity' economics.

The system YOU support.

"Deplorable".

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tallowood Gold Member Offline Израиль Навсегда Posts: 9778 Gender:	Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia Reply #458 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 2:59pm Most countries that adopted wealth taxes in the late 20th century (such as Sweden, Germany, Austria, Denmark, and Finland) eventually repealed them due to high administrative costs, difficulties valuing illiquid assets, and capital flight concerns.
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thegreatdivide

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #459 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 3:17pm

tallowood wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 2:59pm:

Most countries that adopted wealth taxes in the late 20th century (such as Sweden, Germany, Austria, Denmark, and Finland) eventually repealed them due to high administrative costs, difficulties valuing illiquid assets, and capital flight concerns.

Yes, taxing wealth is extremely difficult, as Gary Stevenson admits.

So how do you propose to enable govts to deliver essential public services eg, public housing, education and health for those who need but can't afford these necessities?

btw, is Nugent like the guy in the US who shot a greedy private health insurance company CEO in the US?

...caused by inadequate public health spending in the US, also manifested by Oz's increasingly inadequate health spending - despite the much vaunted Medicare - due to mainstream 'austerity' economics.

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aquascoot

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #460 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 3:38pm

Creators become wealthy.
You have to be a creator and a contributor to make money.

So we should probably do the exact opposite.

Most broke people are very selfish
It's why they are brokies
They refuse to offer value that would result in them being compensated.
This is not a good behaviour.
We could perhaps have a poverty tax to encourage them to be better and snap out of the world of " me, me, me "

Any cash raised could be given to brokies who are starting on an upward trajectory.

This could really improve productivity

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tallowood

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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #461 - Oct 26^th, 2026 at 3:41pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 3:17pm:

tallowood wrote on Oct 26^th, 2026 at 2:59pm:

Most countries that adopted wealth taxes in the late 20th century (such as Sweden, Germany, Austria, Denmark, and Finland) eventually repealed them due to high administrative costs, difficulties valuing illiquid assets, and capital flight concerns.

Yes, taxing wealth is extremely difficult, as Gary Stevenson admits.

So how do you propose to enable govts to deliver essential public services eg, public housing, education and health for those who need but can't afford these necessities?

btw, is Nugent like the guy in the US who shot a greedy private health insurance company CEO in the US?

...caused by inadequate public health spending in the US, also manifested by Oz's increasingly inadequate health spending - despite the much vaunted Medicare - due to mainstream 'austerity' economics.

I propose not to enable government, experience shows that government will only waste taxpayers money.

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