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A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia (Read 18657 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #270 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 2:01pm
 
Lisa Jones wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:46pm:
So you are predicting that Australia will have 350 million homeless people in 10 years time then.


No I'm saying there will be no relative poverty in China in 2030, whereas the poverty rate in Oz will still be > c 10%, as at present.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/we-don-t-really-have-a-plan-warning-as-australia...

"We don’t really have a plan’: Warning as Australia fails to hit poverty goals.

Quote:
That's how many are homeless in China right now.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_

Australia has 2.5 times as many homeless as China per 10,000 population. 49.1 v. 18.
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Paki gob on a stick
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #271 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 4:56pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:48pm:
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 10:08am:
A GST taxes everyone the same, a wealth tax spreads wealth around. That's the economic fundamental: a progressive taxation system. Tax those who can afford it.


Valkie's a 'survival of the fittest' RW nut-job, no need to spread the wealth around.


Valkie's one of the least fittest survival-of-the-fittest types around, Laugh. He's an invalid pensioner undergoing forced "retirement".

Valkie's keen to spread the wealth around, as long as it doesn't go to any lazy Boongs, Muzzos, Jigaboos or Groggy socks.

You?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #272 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 5:52pm
 
Paki gob on a stick wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 4:56pm:
You?


I'm an MMTer.

Unfortunately covid didn't keep the economy locked down long enough to reveal the CB can simply type some numbers into the bank accounts of citizens so they can pay for the essentials while the non-essential part of the economy was locked down.

So we are back to square one, with mainstream New Keynesian  blockheads like Summers,  Krugman, and Satyajit Das...and ABC 'finance' journalists... claiming we have this huge government debt  which must be repaid.

Hopeless. 
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Frank
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #273 - Feb 12th, 2022 at 9:56am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 1:43pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 11th, 2022 at 11:30am:
Australia eradicated absolute poverty around the 1790s.


Of course. But owing to your vicious obsolete economic orthodoxy, in 10 years time there will be more relative poverty in Oz than in China.

Ludicrous attempt at a switcheroo, Mr Pong.

You have been howling about eliminating absolute poverty in China - redefined dishonestly by the CCP as living on less than $2 a day - and when that cheating is caught out you now sing of relative poverty.



Also, China's crippling poverty was the result of... er.... CCP policies under Mao and the Gang of Four, the stupid, ruthless commie bastards.  See also the difference between Taiwan and China. Taiwan's per capita gdp is almost 3 times that of China's.
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/china/taiwan?sc=XE34
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2022 at 2:04pm by Frank »  

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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #274 - Feb 12th, 2022 at 12:43pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 12th, 2022 at 9:56am:
Ludicrous attemot at a a switcheroo, Mr Pong.

You have been howling about eliminating absolute poverty in China - redefined dishonestly by the CCP as living on less than $2 a day - and when that cheating is caught out you now sing of relative poverty.


Oh dear,  I mentioned relative poverty because I knew you would claim there is no poverty in Oz relative to poverty in China!

No "switcheroo" at all. In fact there is now no absolute poverty in China (or Australia).  And as for your  "$2 a day":

" Based on information about basic needs collected from 15 low-income countries, the World Bank defines the extreme poor as those living on less than $1.90 a day.

So not the CCP's "redefining" at all.

Quote:
Also, China's crippling poverty was the result of... er.... CCP policies under Mao and the Gang of Four, the stupid, ruthless commie bastards.


Er...the collapse of the Qing dynasty at the hands of the West resulted in China being the poorest country in  the world.
Mao,  half a century later, was confronted with the task of lifting 700 million people out of that baleful condition. In fact it took Deng in the 80's  to begin to achieve the upward growth momentum in the Chinese economy which is now regarded as miraculous.

Quote:
See also the difference between Taiwan and China. Taiwan's per capita gdp is almost 3 times that of China's.
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/china/taiwan?sc=XE34


Taiwan has been receiving US assistance since the 1950's.

"The situation in the Strait deteriorated in late 1954 and early 1955, prompting the U.S. Government to act. In January 1955, the U.S. Congress passed the “Formosa Resolution,” which gave President Eisenhower total authority to defend Taiwan and the off-shore islands".
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2022 at 2:32pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #275 - Feb 12th, 2022 at 2:16pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Feb 12th, 2022 at 12:43pm:
Frank wrote on Feb 12th, 2022 at 9:56am:
Ludicrous attemot at a a switcheroo, Mr Pong.

You have been howling about eliminating absolute poverty in China - redefined dishonestly by the CCP as living on less than $2 a day - and when that cheating is caught out you now sing of relative poverty.


Oh dear,  I mentioned relative poverty because I knew you would claim there is no poverty in Oz relative to poverty in China!

No "switcheroo" at all. In fact there is now no absolute poverty in China (or Australia).  And as for your  "$2 a day":

" Based on information about basic needs collected from 15 low-income countries, the World Bank defines the extreme poor as those living on less than $1.90 a day.

So not the CCP's "redefining" at all.

Quote:
Also, China's crippling poverty was the result of... er.... CCP policies under Mao and the Gang of Four, the stupid, ruthless commie bastards.


Er...the collapse of the Qing dynasty at the hands of the West resulted in China being the poorest country in  the world.
Mao,  half a century later, was confronted with the task of lifting 700 million people out of that baleful condition. In fact it took Deng in the 80's  to begin to achieve the upward growth momentum in the Chinese economy which is now regardless as miraculous.

Quote:
See also the difference between Taiwan and China. Taiwan's per capita gdp is almost 3 times that of China's.
https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/china/taiwan?sc=XE34


Taiwan has been receiving US assistance since the 1950's.

"The situation in the Strait deteriorated in late 1954 and early 1955, prompting the U.S. Government to act. In January 1955, the U.S. Congress passed the “Formosa Resolution,” which gave President Eisenhower total authority to defend Taiwan and the off-shore islands".



That "lifting 700 million people out of poverty" is a great big fat typical Chinese distortion and propaganda slogan. They lifted them out of absolute poverty into mere poverty, from less than $2 a day to the princely some of what? $4 a day?
Meanwhile, the great lifting out of poverty and shared prosperity BS produced more billionnaires than Europe, Australia and Canada put together.



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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #276 - Feb 12th, 2022 at 2:58pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 12th, 2022 at 2:16pm:
That "lifting 700 million people out of poverty" is a great big fat typical Chinese distortion and propaganda slogan. They lifted them out of absolute poverty into mere poverty, from less than $2 a day to the princely some of what? $4 a day?


Well, in 1960 the entire population of 700 million lived in absolute poverty (total GDP c. $60 billion). 

Today the total population is 1.4 billion people, GDP is c.$18 trillion, per capita GDP c.$12,000, and no-one less than $1000 a year (absolute poverty according to the world bank).

Middle class is 400 million people, larger than the entire US population.

Quote:
Meanwhile, the great lifting out of poverty and shared prosperity BS produced more billionnaires than Europe, Australia and Canada put together.


But not more than the US......but yes, the CCP is now cracking down on the excesses of free market capitalism in China, on its way to create a "prosperous socialist society in all respects" by 2035.

Meanwhile those ghettos will still scar US cities, in 2035.




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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #277 - Feb 12th, 2022 at 3:19pm
 
As far as a wealth tax is concerned:

"Money doesn't grow on rich people".... as wittily asserted by Stephanie Kelton, leading MMT advocate and  author of The Deficit Myth'.

Unfortunately covid didn't keep the economy locked down long enough to reveal to one and all that  the central bank of a sovereign currency-issuing government  can simply type some numbers into the bank accounts of citizens so they can pay for the essentials while the non-essential part of the economy was locked down.

Note: in Oz and the US,  central banks made the mistake of pumping borrowed funds into bank accounts of citizens over and above what was needed to pay essential bills during the lock-down, leading to excess  spending capacity into supply constrained economies, which is now causing inflation (especially in the US). 

So we are back to square one, with mainstream New Keynesian  blockheads like Summers,  Krugman, and Satyajit Das...and ABC 'finance' journalists... claiming we have this huge government debt  which must be repaid, and urging the central bank to lift interest rates, as if this will help to create more truck drivers or stop omicron infections.

Hopeless.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=49191

Covid-specific inflationary pressures are dominant and are transitory.


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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2022 at 3:27pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #278 - Aug 14th, 2026 at 12:47pm
 
(The Conversation)

Calls to tax billionaires are growing. Is there a better way to tax the rich?

Published: August 10, 2026

Should billionaires pay more tax? Californians will vote for whether to introduce a billionaire tax in November. In the United Kingdom, economists recently called for a net wealth tax on assets over £10 million (about A$19 million).

Australia may seem absent from the debate, but it shouldn’t be. The same question confronting other countries applies here too: should people with extraordinary wealth contribute more tax, and if so, what’s the best way to achieve it?

How do billionaires accumulate wealth?

To answer that question, it’s first important to understand that people with substantial wealth accumulate it differently from most Australians.

They use a range of structures, assets and strategies, including trusts, private companies, capital gains and tax minimisation.

Let’s take a closer look at just one of these: getting wealthier “on paper” with unrealised capital gains.

Wealth and wages are taxed differently
While most Australians receive the bulk of their income as wages or salaries, much of the increase in wealth for high net worth individuals comes from the rising value of assets they already own. Increases (or decreases) in the value of these assets are known as unrealised capital gains (or losses).

Suppose you buy a share for $1 in 2025. By 2026, its value has increased to $3. The share has generated a capital gain of $2. If you sell the share, you realise the gain. If you continue to hold it, the gain remains unrealised.

For billionaires, unrealised capital gains on shares in companies, real estate and other valuable assets, such as artwork or classic cars, account for a large share of the growth in their wealth.

For example, over the past 10 years, the wealth of Australia’s 200 richest people has grown from $197 billion to $707 billion, according to the Australian Financial Review’s Rich List.

From an economic perspective, these unrealised gains increase a person’s purchasing power just as wages do for workers. The key difference is how they are taxed, with unrealised capital gains receiving preferential treatment.

How do billionaires have lower tax rates than workers?
Unlike wages and salaries, unrealised capital gains are generally not taxed each year. Instead, they are usually taxed when the asset is sold. Deferring tax until sale provides a significant tax advantage because the investor continues to earn returns on money that would otherwise have been paid in tax.

If an asset is never sold, the owner’s wealth continues to grow, and no income tax is paid on that asset.

The ability to defer tax on unrealised capital gains (potentially forever) is one common reason why billionaires can face lower tax rates than people whose income primarily comes from wages.

So what are the solutions?
One solution would be to impose a wealth tax on individuals with very high levels of wealth, such as billionaires. Such a tax would capture wealth that has accumulated outside the annual income tax system, including unrealised capital gains.

Another solution would be to tax unrealised capital gains each year as they arise. In theory, this approach would treat increases in wealth much like wages and salaries.

In practice, however, very few countries attempt anything close to this because many assets are difficult and expensive to value, and their values can fluctuate considerably from year to year.

The billionaire debate is therefore really a symptom of a broader issue.

Australia doesn’t just tax billionaires inconsistently; it taxes different forms of wealth and saving inconsistently across the entire economy. Fixing that broader problem would promote economic growth and make the tax system more equitable for everyone, not just billionaires.

Australia already has some wealth taxes in place, but they are limited in scope and application. Some examples of wealth taxation are:

land taxes, which are imposed on investment real estate properties

taxes on large superannuation balances over $3 million

superannuation benefits inherited by some recipients.

But the family home, one of the largest stores of Australian household wealth, remains completely untaxed – except for stamp duty on purchase – regardless of how much it is worth.

Australia also taxes income from savings inconsistently. The forms of savings that face the lightest tax treatment tend to have the highest barriers to entry, such as real estate, while some of the most accessible forms of household saving face the heaviest tax burden, such as savings accounts.

The tax system needs to be consistent
These inconsistencies impact all Australians, generate substantial inequity and discourage economic growth. The Australian government’s recent tax changes to negative gearing and the capital gains tax discount make some headway on this dimension, but more is needed.

Taxing billionaires more may be part of the solution.

But the real question isn’t whether Australia should tax wealth — it already does. It’s whether the mechanisms we have are working well. A billionaire-specific levy, on its own, won’t answer that question.

The larger and more consequential task is building a tax system that treats different forms of wealth consistently. That would do more than make billionaires pay their share; it would make the system fairer and more productive for everyone.

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Bobby.
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #279 - Aug 14th, 2026 at 1:08pm
 
Hi TGD,
on the other side of the equation -
Govts should stop wasting our tax money:

$500 million on a Voice referendum,
the highest number of public servants per capita in the world.......

can we list 1000 other wasteful spending examples?
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lee
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #280 - Aug 14th, 2026 at 1:37pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2026 at 12:47pm:
From an economic perspective, these unrealised gains increase a person’s purchasing power just as wages do for workers



Unrealised gains don't increase purchasing power. They are UNREALISED, they are a figment until sold. They confer no benefit to borrowing, as the price may fall, that would leave the bank in an unenviable position. Perhaps that could lend money at rate commensurate to purchase price, but that is different to the unrealised gain. Or perhaps a discount rate, but that would assume you know the actual correction when/if it comes.  Cool
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #281 - Aug 14th, 2026 at 1:58pm
 
Australia should succeed, where the USSR failed.

www.Com Commonwealth Communism.
...its all about family dynamics here in Oz.
Its where Communism truly works.
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Daves2017
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #282 - Aug 14th, 2026 at 3:22pm
 
We already do have a wealth tax.

We pay taxes and Albo and Minns gives the money to wealthy multinationals like Rio Tinto.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #283 - Aug 20th, 2026 at 12:07pm
 
lee wrote on Aug 14th, 2026 at 1:37pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 14th, 2026 at 12:47pm:
From an economic perspective, these unrealised gains increase a person’s purchasing power just as wages do for workers



Unrealised gains don't increase purchasing power. They are UNREALISED, they are a figment until sold.


Apparently you failed to read the explanation of why unrealized gains may increase a billionaire's purchasing power:

" The key difference is how they are taxed, with unrealised capital gains receiving preferential treatment.

How do billionaires have lower tax rates than workers?

Unlike wages and salaries, unrealised capital gains are generally not taxed each year. Instead, they are usually taxed when the asset is sold. Deferring tax until sale provides a significant tax advantage because the investor continues to earn returns on money that would otherwise have been paid in tax."

So a billionaire's wealth increases each year, owing to the tax advantage, enabling increased purchasing  power not available to wealth from wages  which are taxed annually.


Quote:
They confer no benefit to borrowing, as the price may fall, that would leave the bank in an unenviable position.


No-one wants to consume based on borrowed money.

Quote:
Perhaps that could lend money at rate commensurate to purchase price, but that is different to the unrealised gain.

Or perhaps a discount rate, but that would assume you know the actual correction when/if it comes.  Cool


The cumulative effect of lower tax rates over many years confers the significant advantage in purchasing power over that period.  (cf tax rates on wages). Successful businesses increase in value over time. Owners of businesses which fail are in the same position as workers who are made redundant.



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thegreatdivide
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Re: A wealth Tax Should Be Introduced In Australia
Reply #284 - Aug 20th, 2026 at 1:22pm
 
Bobby. wrote on Aug 14th, 2026 at 1:08pm:
Hi TGD,
on the other side of the equation -
Govts should stop wasting our tax money:


Indeed: currency-issuing govts. don't NEED to tax (or borrow from rich people/institutions); they need to mobilize the nation's resources to avoid inflation.

https://publicmoneypublicgood.net/

Note: public money , NOT 'taxpayer money'.

Quote:
$500 million on a Voice referendum,


Of course a Voice won't close the gap - only poverty eradication can close the gap.

Quote:
the highest number of public servants per capita in the world.......


Fact check:

(google AI)

What the Data Shows Per Capita Rankings: Reports cite a ratio of about 143–150 public sector workers for every 1,000 Australians, putting the nation at the top of comparative international charts.
Total Headcount: Figures from the Australian Bureau of Statistics track roughly 2.6 million public sector jobs across federal, state, and local governments.Composition: The vast majority—nearly 77%—are employed by state and territory governments, which includes essential frontline workers like public school teachers, nurses, and police officers alongside administrative staff.

Why the Claim is Debated

Frontline Inclusion:

Australia’s federal model delegates major service delivery (like healthcare and education) directly to state public payrolls, inflating headline totals compared to countries with privatized or heavily localized models.

Data Discrepancies: Economic researchers and think-tanks frequently debate whether international datasets accurately capture equivalent non-standard or outsourced government roles across different legal and administrative systems.


Hm  - your claim is misleading at best.

Quote:
can we list 1000 other wasteful spending examples?


Maybe,  but we can also list examples of inadeqate govt. spending on schools, health, infrastructure and housing,
...while Tim Wilson is banging on about goverment debt - debt which is immaterial for a currency-issuer.

Of course Wilson, a comfortable  Neoclassical clown,  wants lower taxes and lower govt. spending, whereas the electorate wants lower taxes and HIGHER government spending...he thinks the public's ignorance of public financing - like yours - will tip the votes  in his favour at the the next election...

Fat chance, ON is polling higher than the Coaltion, while ON rides hgh on the public's ignorance of economics.
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