Australian Politics Forum - Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #45 - Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm

lee wrote on Dec 10^th, 2021 at 6:19pm:

Nope it is either a meritocracy or it is not.

What's your gender hang up?

Quote:

So what is it. Is it in Yuan or someone's guesstimate?

No, in $US equivalent.

Quote:

uhuh.

glad you conceded the irrefutable. ...

Quote:

What transition is that? From no reliable energy to what

Go back to sleep; your absolutist CO2 denialism is of no interest to researchers and engineers who are designing the 100% renewables economy.

Quote:

]he lent in whatever currency he wanted. I wasn't using it as a US denominated position.

either way, he committed a cardinal sin in MMT.

Note: "Petrodollars are oil revenues denominated in U.S. dollars."

Quote:

He said the debt ratio would be 160% by 2007 in 2006.

Whatever, the mainstreamers were caught sleeping at the wheel; they certainly have no idea how the economy works.

Quote:

So at least those of his pre-GFC predictions for Australia were wrong. But hey he claimed to predicted the GFC and all on the wrong conclusions.

Keen didn't claim that, the authors of the linked article nominated Keen as one of the first economists in the world to
predict the GFC. And other MMT economists also predicted it, eg Bill Mitchell (can't find a link at present)

Meanwhile here is the Das article, bemoaning the 'enforced' experiment with MMT:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/10/spending-without-taxing-no...

He mostly reveals he doesn't understand MMT, and rejects its solutions; but he certainly acknowledges we are confronted by a "serious situation", for which he offers no solutions apart from complaining about MMT...

Quote:

because I am not you.

I can only hope you don't lock yourself in with the ICE running...

Quote:

You really are a know nothing.

I know no government on the planet accepts that EVs release dangerous levels of ozone, whereas all governments accept deisels emit dangerous levels of poisonous gases. It's not me you will have to argue with...

Quote:

https://www.quora.com/Do-electric-vehicles-create-ozone?share=1

"Two of the largest emitters of these pollutants are vehicles and electricity generating units (EGUs) but as Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicles (PHEVs) have risen in popularity over the past decade the positive impact on the environment due to lack of fossil fuel exhaust fumes is offset by increased ozone."

https://www.science20.com/news_articles/solving_ozone_problem_caused_electric_ca...

Note the highlighted : not EV vehicles, as for hybrids, they only divert poisonous emissions from built up areas (when they are powered by their electric motor), to the environment when they are powered by filthy fossil fuels.

Quote:

I understand it it quite well. You however seem not to. Every breeze dispels emissions, you just can't do it in a clean room.

er a windless day...high buildings entrapping poisonous gases etc..

Quote:

Oh theoretical.

..at the end point: let's get on with the job, and simultaneously identify research yet to be funded.

Quote:

oh the battery does all that.

...will DO that (in the future) in conjunction with the yet to be rolled out smart grid, and long term backup.

Quote:

Oh only "well on the way".

That's correct, battery technology is advancing rapidly.

Quote:

Yea. On average.

"But often the amount of wind and solar that is generated has to be constrained to ensure that a certain amount of gas generation can supply “system strength”

That's because we don't have a smart grid connected to several Snowy2.0 equivalents yet.

Be patient.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18851
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #46 - Dec 12^th, 2021 at 8:24pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

What's your gender hang up?

Meritocracy - promotion on merit. Gender knows no restriction. What is your hangup? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

No, in $US equivalent.

A guesstimate.

"Q3: What does China actually spend on its military, and how does it compare to other major military powers?

A3: Estimates released by external organizations paint a more complete picture of what China actually spends on its military by accounting for expenditure outside the official budget."

https://www.csis.org/analysis/understanding-chinas-2021-defense-budget

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

glad you conceded the irrefutable.

Good to see you have a sense of humour. So where is the Control. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

either way, he committed a cardinal sin in MMT.

Good to know. perhaps you can advise Maduro. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

Whatever, the mainstreamers were caught sleeping at the wheel; they certainly have no idea how the economy works.

Whatever. he got his assumptions wrong. So he made his predictions on bad assumptions. But hey he made a prediction so it's all good. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

Keen didn't claim that, the authors of the linked article nominated Keen as one of the first economists in the world to
predict the GFC.

So he didn't predict the GFC it was just a puff piece. Grin

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/10/spending-without-taxing-no...

Oh the garudian that's believable - not. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

I can only hope you don't lock yourself in with the ICE running...

Poor petal. You seem severely afflicted with CO Poisoning. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

I know no government on the planet accepts that EVs release dangerous levels of ozone, whereas all governments accept deisels emit dangerous levels of poisonous gases. It's not me you will have to argue with...

Ah an appeal to authority. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

Note the highlighted : not EV vehicles, as for hybrids, they only divert poisonous emissions from built up areas (when they are powered by their electric motor), to the environment when they are powered by filthy fossil fuels.

Poor petal it is the electric part that emits ozone. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

er a windless day...high buildings entrapping poisonous gases etc..

Ah windless days also affect ozone emissions. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

...will DO that (in the future) in conjunction with the yet to be rolled out smart grid, and long term backup.

Ah WILL do. So no current design DOES that. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

That's correct, battery technology is advancing rapidly.

Rubbish. Provide a link. Your assertions carry no weight. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 1:38pm:

That's because we don't have a smart grid connected to several Snowy2.0 equivalents yet.

And we don't have such a system designed. Technology should precede not follow the dreams. Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #47 - Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm

lee wrote on Dec 12^th, 2021 at 8:24pm:

Meritocracy - promotion on merit. Gender knows no restriction. What is your hangup?

No hangup, just an observation that a consensus one-party meritocracy might be able to achieve sustainable national development with common prosperity, better than by election of adversarial two-party "democratic" rabbles of blind-leading-the-blind self-interested no-hopers, "freedom fighters", and conspiracy theorists.

We live in exciting times...the next decade will present a clearer picture of the relative merits of the two systems.

Quote:

A guesstimate.

"Q3: What does China actually spend on its military, and how does it compare to other major military powers?

A3: Estimates released by external organizations paint a more complete picture of what China actually spends on its military by accounting for expenditure outside the official budget."

Well we can see 12 US carrier fleets on the high seas ( inc. sailing in the Tawain straits...); China has 2 such fleets, confined to Chinese waters.

But if Chinese missile technology renders the 12 US fleets obsolete, while spending a fraction of what the Pentagon does to maintain those fleets, so be it...

Quote:

Whatever. he got his assumptions wrong. So he made his predictions on bad assumptions. But hey he made a prediction so it's all good.

Wrong; his predictions re the actual outcomes of the crisis were off the mark, but he correctly predicted the occurrence of the crisis, and identified its cause, namely a bank-driven, private-debt-binge aka 'subprime lending'.

Quote:

Oh the garudian that's believable - not.

You can disagree with the analysis, but you cannot deny the fact governments HAD to issue vast amounts of debt...by typing some numbers into computers...to avoid people dying like flies from covid, or unable to pay household bills while forced into unemployment in locked-down economies.

Quote:

You seem severely afflicted with CO Poisoning.

Bad joke. Whereas you are an 'anti-anti'- CO2 ideologue.

Quote:

Ah an appeal to authority.

True, but in this case, 193 governments say you lose, and the prospect of free electricity is enticing....

Quote:

Poor petal it is the electric part that emits ozone.

The world's car manufacturers are all converting to EVs, because.....?

Quote:

Rubbish. Provide a link. Your assertions carry no weight.

again, apparently 193 nations and the world's vehicle manufacturers disagree with you.

Quote:

And we don't have such a system designed. Technology should precede not follow the dreams. Roll Eyes

Snowy 2.0 will be operational by mid decade. Batteries and smart grid can get us to at least 60% renewables by then.

The technology you speak of is not needed yet, to change the balance from fossils to renewables ASAP; though certainly research for any technology that IS needed to achieve 100% renewables needs to be funded starting now (which of course you will resist)

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18851
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #48 - Dec 13^th, 2021 at 8:13pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

No hangup, just an observation that a consensus one-party meritocracy might be able to achieve sustainable national development with common prosperity, better than by election of adversarial two-party "democratic" rabbles of blind-leading-the-blind self-interested no-hopers, "freedom fighters", and conspiracy theorists.

Just a meritocracy not based on merit. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

But if Chinese missile technology renders the 12 US fleets obsolete, while spending a fraction of what the Pentagon does to maintain those fleets, so be it...

Where do you get your magical thinking? What fraction?

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

Wrong; his predictions re the actual outcomes of the crisis were off the mark, but he correctly predicted the occurrence of the crisis, and identified its cause, namely a bank-driven, private-debt-binge aka 'subprime lending'.

Did he? The "actual outcomes of the crisis were off the mark" No they were his benchmarks. Each one a separate benchmark. He failed abysmally. The " I got the numbers wrong but I was really right" doesn't cut it. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

You can disagree with the analysis, but you cannot deny the fact governments HAD to issue vast amounts of debt...by typing some numbers into computers...to avoid people dying like flies from covid, or unable to pay household bills while forced into unemployment in locked-down economies.

And nothing to do with MMT. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

Bad joke. Whereas you are an 'anti-anti'- CO2 ideologue.

I go where the science goes. Climate models are not science. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

True, but in this case, 193 governments say you lose, and the prospect of free electricity is enticing....

Yeah freeeee electricity. Grin

So why are Germany and the UK using more fossil fueled electricity? Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

The world's car manufacturers are all converting to EVs, because.....?

Wrong. That say they are planning to. Plans are not accomplished facts. Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

again, apparently 193 nations and the world's vehicle manufacturers disagree with you.

They do. So what did China actually say? India? Africa in general? Grin

;

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

Snowy 2.0 will be operational by mid decade. Batteries and smart grid can get us to at least 60% renewables by then.

That is a hope. There is no current design or experimental plant. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 3:10pm:

The technology you speak of is not needed yet, to change the balance from fossils to renewables ASAP; though certainly research for any technology that IS needed to achieve 100% renewables needs to be funded starting now (which of course you will resist)

Nope. Companies can fund what they like. Feel good government "projects" should not be a part of it. If the returns are good the investors will flock. Just no real subsidies as opposed to the IMF calling tax deductions, that even solar and wind can use, subsidies. Roll Eyes

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #49 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm

lee wrote on Dec 13^th, 2021 at 8:13pm:

Just a meritocracy not based on merit

Nonsense. Commitment to the goal - national development and common prosperity - helps, but the most able rise up by consensus through the ranks of the party, armed with advice from the nation's scientific institutions.

Quote:

Where do you get your magical thinking? What fraction?

Don't divert. The US is currently the biggest economy, spends more on 'defense' and has the biggest stick...eg, 800 overseas bases, China....NONE. So wake up: China will soon have the biggest economy and have the biggest stick, so reform of the UNSC might come in handy....

Quote:

Did he? The "actual outcomes of the crisis were off the mark" No they were his benchmarks. Each one a separate benchmark. He failed abysmally. The " I got the numbers wrong but I was really right" doesn't cut it.

Meanwhile the mainstream didn't even SEE the GFC coming.

Quote:

And nothing to do with MMT.

You forgot Das already?: the "covid-enforced experiment with MMT..."

Quote:

I go where the science goes. Climate models are not science.

MMT economists predicted the GFC; likewise AGW scientist's predictions are too significant to ignore merely because the climate is difficult to model accurately.

The EU and the UK (like all nations abused by mainstream economic orthodoxy, ie all of us) don't understand resources, not money, is the issue, so they are dragging their feet on investment in renewables while they are trying to work out how to get the reluctant private sector to come up with the money (ie $trillions in 'green' investment) via carbon taxes which the electorate don't want.

Quote:

Wrong. That say they are planning to. Plans are not accomplished facts.

Dragging you kicking and screaming....

Quote:

So what did China actually say? India? Africa in general?

Everyone has signed up to zero emissions, didn't you know?

But the argument over the date is related to the fight over who is going to pay, as always, courtesy of flat-earth economic orthodoxy which thinks money not resources is the controlling factor; they have it exactly back to front, of course. See:

http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/mmt-overcoming-the-political-div...

"Everything You Thought You Knew About Economics May Be Wrong".

and

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=48850

"Central banks are resisting the inflation panic hype from the financial markets – and we are better off as a result".

Quote:

That is a hope. There is no current design or experimental plant.

Snowy 2.0 is fully designed, and the associated smart grid technology is proceeding apace.

Quote:

Nope. Companies can fund what they like. Feel good government "projects" should not be a part of it. If the returns are good the investors will flock. Just no real subsidies as opposed to the IMF calling tax deductions, that even solar and wind can use, subsidies.

The private sector is too conflicted; they want carbon taxes which the electorate don't want, and they want to retain their fat fossil profits, so of course they will not invest fast enough in renewables or green R&D. Only governments will do that.

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:32pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18851
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #50 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 4:30pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

Commitment to the goal - national development and common prosperity - helps, but the most able rise up by consensus through the ranks of the party, armed with advice from the nation's scientific institutions.

Consensus is not merit based either. You are a complete failure.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

So wake up: China will soon have the biggest economy and have the biggest stick, so reform of the UNSC might come in handy....

poor petal. You don't know schist.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

Meanwhile the mainstream didn't even SEE the GFC coming.

And because they didn't he was right for all the wrong reasons? Grin

Another fail. you didn't even know about his multitude of predictions that would cause a recession. And tried to pretend they were post-GFC. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

You forgot Das already?: the "covid-enforced experiment with MMT..."

No petal. One lonely writer. And no economist.

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

MMT economists predicted the GFC; likewise AGW scientist's predictions are too significant to ignore merely because the climate is difficult to model accurately.

MMT'ers like to claim it.. But they haven't shown they can control the economy. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

AGW scientist's predictions are too significant to ignore merely because the climate is difficult to model accurately.

Too significant? How are they significant? Grin

According to the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO), Climate is merely 30 years of weather. They originally said 30 years was the best data available. And yet organisations reckon they know a global temperature to 1/100 of a degree. Global temperatures according to Gavin Schmidt can only be estimated to 0.5C and I have doubts about that. Wink

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

Dragging you kicking and screaming....

That's me dragging you kicking and screaming towards the light Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

Everyone has signed up to zero emissions, didn't you know?

"According to the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit’s Net Zero Tracker, Canada, Denmark, the EU, France, Germany, Hungary, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden, and the U.K. have signed net-zero commitments into law, with Germany and Sweden aiming to reach carbon neutrality already by 2045. Chile, Fiji, and Ireland have proposed net-zero legislation. Forty-five countries, including major emitters such as China and the U.S., have net-zero goals reflected in policy documents, [highlight]and almost 80 are considering targets[/highlight]."

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/11/24/cop26-and-solar-satellites-for-net-zero-e...

OOPS. India by 2070. China by 2060. But we are told it is an "existential" crisis. Surely the big emitters, which is NOT Australia, should be doing it now. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

Snowy 2.0 is fully designed, and the associated smart grid technology is proceeding apace.

Proof on the smart grid? Roll Eyes

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 1:23pm:

The private sector is too conflicted; they want carbon taxes which the electorate don't want, and they want to retain their fat fossil profits, so of course they will not invest fast enough in renewables or green R&D.

They want a fair return. Which is more than Solar and wind - they get paid when there is too little or too much

Seeing as you can't tell your a*se from your elbow - I'm off - Bye.

Back to top

IP Logged

philperth2010 Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21057 Perth Gender:	Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies Reply #51 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 5:29pm Something has to be done about these big corporations paying little or no tax....Why does the Government allow this to happen???
Back to top	If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we can solve them. Isaac Asimov (1920 - 1992) IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #52 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 7:49pm

philperth2010 wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 5:29pm:

Something has to be done about these big corporations paying little or no tax....Why does the Government allow this to happen???

Huh

Because global trade and global companies have developed in the absence of an effective international financial system.

Only recently: "The G7's call for a 15% minimum tax is ground-breaking but a long way from reality. Businesses should engage with broader global tax reforms. The G7 is nudging 139 countries to finish an OECD project to overhaul tax laws affecting cross-border businesses". 5 July 2021

Back to top

« Last Edit: Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:59pm by thegreatdivide »

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #53 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:52pm

lee wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 4:30pm:

[quote]Consensus is not merit based either.

With a defined goal, it is. The most able are chosen by consensus and they take advice from the most qualified.

Companies and political parties use consensus within their organisations; no reason why a one-party meritocracy cannot use the same mechanism, to govern a nation.

Quote:

And because they didn't he was right for all the wrong reasons?

No, because they didn't predict the GFC, whereas he did, while correctly identifying the private debt binge as the cause.

Quote:

Another fail. you didn't even know about his multitude of predictions that would cause a recession. And tried to pretend they were post-GFC

Irrelevant, Keen was merely one of several MMT economists who predicted the private debt binge would end badly, requiring capitalism to be bailed out by the public sector...AGAIN...

Quote:

One lonely writer. And no economist.

"Das received bachelor's degrees in Commerce and Law from the University of New South Wales followed by an MBA from the Australian Graduate School of Management.[1]"

So not an economist...which explains why he hasn't studied MMT and hence incorrectly concluded MMT isn't the solution.
His comments were recently refuted in Bill Mitchell's MMT blog.

Quote:

MMT'ers like to claim it.. But they haven't shown they can control the economy

The mainstream can't control it, and MMT has explained why; it's time for a new approach. Nice to know that governments don't actually have to go broke because of covid debt, or force their populations to choose between starving or dying of covid because the government has "run out of money" ...as Bolsanaro ridiculously claimed in Brazil last year.

Quote:

Too significant? How are they significant?

Tonight's TV report on the Antartic ice sheet decline?

Quote:

According to the World Meteorological Organisation (WMO), Climate is merely 30 years of weather. They originally said 30 years was the best data available. And yet organisations reckon they know a global temperature to 1/100 of a degree. Global temperatures according to Gavin Schmidt can only be estimated to 0.5C and I have doubts about that.

What if heat is being absorbed by the oceans, before showing up as atmospheric temp. rises?

Quote:

"According to the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit’s Net Zero Tracker, Canada, Denmark, the EU, France, Germany, Hungary, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Spain, Sweden, and the U.K. have signed net-zero commitments into law, with Germany and Sweden aiming to reach carbon neutrality already by 2045. Chile, Fiji, and Ireland have proposed net-zero legislation. Forty-five countries, including major emitters such as China and the U.S., have net-zero goals reflected in policy documents, [highlight]and almost 80 are considering targets[/highlight]."

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2021/11/24/cop26-and-solar-satellites-for-net-zero-e...

OOPS. India by 2070. China by 2060. But we are told it is an "existential" crisis. Surely the big emitters, which is NOT Australia, should be doing it now.

Like I said, the private sector is too conflicted to move, and governments are too beholden by mainstream economic orthodoxy, so are reduced to pointing fingers at one-another for "not doing enough". And obviously governments do NOT believe it is an 'existential' crisis; if they did, all factories would immediately be commandeered by the government for production of green infrastructure, in a type of planned 'war' economy...

Quote:

Proof on the smart grid? Roll Eyes

Patience, it will be wondrous in your lifetime.

Quote:

They want a fair return. Which is more than Solar and wind - they get paid when there is too little or too much

The private sector fossil industry wants to keep gouging consumers.

Quote:

Seeing as you can't tell your a*se from your elbow - I'm off - Bye.

That will certainly be a relief for at least one reader of this thread, who I hope - using the links I supplied - can now explore the significance of what the BIS itself said: "Central banks might have to buy the fossil industry. "

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18851
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #54 - Dec 14^th, 2021 at 9:56pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:52pm:

Tonight's TV report on the Antartic ice sheet decline?

Oh noes. MAY shatter? Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:52pm:

What if heat is being absorbed by the oceans, before showing up as atmospheric temp. rises?

The oceans have a far greater heat capacity than the atmosphere. So how much extra heat is required to heat the oceans by 0.1C? Grin

"The Southern Ocean (>30° S) has taken up a large amount of anthropogenic heat north of the Subantarctic Front (SAF) of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC). Poor sampling before the 1990s and decadal variability have heretofore masked the ocean’s dynamic response to this warming. Here we use the lengthening satellite altimetry and Argo float records to show robust acceleration of zonally averaged Southern Ocean zonal flow at 48° S–58° S"

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-021-01212-5

Wow.48-58 South? That's not even IN the Antarctic Circle. And apparently it is warming twice as fast as the Northern Hemisphere where the warming is. iI guess Northern Hemisphere waters are migrating, the first climate refugees. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:52pm:

Like I said, the private sector is too conflicted to move, and governments are too beholden by mainstream economic orthodoxy, so are reduced to pointing fingers at one-another for "not doing enough". And obviously governments do NOT believe it is an 'existential' crisis; if they did, all factories would immediately be commandeered by the government for production of green infrastructure, in a type of planned 'war' economy...

poor petal you were the one claimed EVERYONE had signed up. Grin

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 8:52pm:

The private sector fossil industry wants to keep gouging consumers.

And not those paragons of virtue solar and wind? Grin

Back to top

IP Logged

issuevoter Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 9200 The Great State of Mind Gender:	Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies Reply #55 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 8:40am With this policy, the Greens are "preaching to the converted." Anything they achieve will have to be done with a major party, and that will mean compromise and focus on the "doable." Their general idea is good, but they need focus, perhaps starting with a reduction in subsidies for the Petroleum industry.
Back to top	No political allegiance. No philosophy. No religion. IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #56 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:28pm

issuevoter wrote on Dec 15^th, 2021 at 8:40am:

With this policy, the Greens are "preaching to the converted." Anything they achieve will have to be done with a major party, and that will mean compromise and focus on the "doable." Their general idea is good, but they need focus, perhaps starting with a reduction in subsidies for the Petroleum industry.

The Greens are hoping the general current strong support for climate action will give them the balance of power in the Senate...and in combination with enough like-minded independents in the Reps., control over a minority government. Not long to wait to test that theory....

Certainly these independents challenging mainly Liberal incumbents are causing ScoMo some grief.

Back to top

IP Logged

lee

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics

Posts: 18851
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #57 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:45pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:28pm:

The Greens are hoping the general current strong support for climate action will give them the balance of power in the Senate...and in combination with enough like-minded independents in the Reps., control over a minority government.

Is that before or after voters are told the hit to the hip pocket? Or will it again be MMT'ers Paradise?

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #58 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:46pm

lee wrote on Dec 14^th, 2021 at 9:56pm:

Oh noes. MAY shatter?

That's right: aka as the"Doomsday" scenario. You still want to ignore the IPCC?

Quote:

The oceans have a far greater heat capacity than the atmosphere. So how much extra heat is required to heat the oceans by 0.1C?

The point is AGW may melt polar ice over the ocean faster than rises in atmospheric temp. ?

Quote:

I guess Northern Hemisphere waters are migrating, the first climate refugees.

Yes.

Quote:

poor petal you were the one claimed EVERYONE had signed up.

Everyone is signed up, or considering signing up, which is the reality. But no-one wants to pay for the transition....because they still think money is a scarce commodity. They will change their tune if extinction really is on the horizon...

Quote:

And not those paragons of virtue solar and wind?

Nationalized, these are indeed free (apart from opportunity cost). No need to gouge consumers, like the filthy fossil industry does.

Back to top

IP Logged

thegreatdivide

Gold Member

Offline

Australian Politics 

Posts: 13884
Gender: male

Re: Greens Release Corporate Tax Policies
Reply #59 - Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:58pm

lee wrote on Dec 15^th, 2021 at 12:45pm:

Is that before or after voters are told the hit to the hip pocket? Or will it again be MMT'ers Paradise?

You are catching on at last. The Greens are MMT-literate, I'm told; they just don't want to waste time explaining economics to flat-earthers like yourself.

Meanwhile, maybe you can explain why the government had to go into debt to the tune of $1 trillion, to pay peoples' bills in a pandemic-enforced lockdown?

Back to top

IP Logged