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Socialism (Read 29696 times)
Frank
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Re: Socialism
Reply #420 - Yesterday at 1:45pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 6th, 2026 at 4:38pm:
Abdul El-Sayed explaining his stance on on radio today:

"I'm not confined by definitions of Right or Left; I promote what the people tell me they want eg, medicare for all, and secure affordable housing for all".

Conservative ideologues like lee consider these things to be beyond a government's capacities, even though various governments have delivered them since 1946, either in the keynesian deficit spending era, or in high taxing Scandinavian regimes. 





LANSING, MI — During a live interview on Fox News, Democratic Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed forcefully defended the beheading of infidels, explaining it was really the same thing as a haircut.

"Have you had a haircut, Jesse?" retorted El-Sayed, upon being asked whether he supported cutting off people's heads with a machete. "Clearly you have no problem with people using sharp objects to cut off parts of your head. Yet, because of your bigotry, you want to deny infidels the opportunity to have their heads cut off with a machete. Your disgusting hypocrisy could not be more apparent."

Watters tried to argue that slicing a person's head off was actually different than a haircut, but to no avail. "It's too late. I completely owned you, Jesse. You and your gorgeous head of hair," said El-Sayed. "Everyone can see how foolish you are, getting haircuts but thinking that beheading is morally wrong. Scissors are literally just two machete blades put together. What a dope you are! Oh man. I'm so embarrassed for you right now."

At publishing time, a sobbing Watters had admitted that he was beaten, then went to the salon for a trim to lift his spirits.


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Re: Socialism
Reply #421 - Yesterday at 4:17pm
 
Frank wrote Yesterday at 1:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 6th, 2026 at 4:38pm:
Abdul El-Sayed explaining his stance on on radio today:

"I'm not confined by definitions of Right or Left; I promote what the people tell me they want eg, medicare for all, and secure affordable housing for all".

Conservative ideologues like lee consider these things to be beyond a government's capacities, even though various governments have delivered them since 1946, either in the keynesian deficit spending era, or in high taxing Scandinavian regimes. 





LANSING, MI — During a live interview on Fox News, Democratic Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed forcefully defended the beheading of infidels, explaining it was really the same thing as a haircut.

"Have you had a haircut, Jesse?" retorted El-Sayed, upon being asked whether he supported cutting off people's heads with a machete. "Clearly you have no problem with people using sharp objects to cut off parts of your head. Yet, because of your bigotry, you want to deny infidels the opportunity to have their heads cut off with a machete. Your disgusting hypocrisy could not be more apparent."

Watters tried to argue that slicing a person's head off was actually different than a haircut, but to no avail. "It's too late. I completely owned you, Jesse. You and your gorgeous head of hair," said El-Sayed. "Everyone can see how foolish you are, getting haircuts but thinking that beheading is morally wrong. Scissors are literally just two machete blades put together. What a dope you are! Oh man. I'm so embarrassed for you right now."

At publishing time, a sobbing Watters had admitted that he was beaten, then went to the salon for a trim to lift his spirits.



What gives?

Satire (?) won't save you.

Even Menzies, Oz's longest serving PM,  delivered housing (public or private) and jobs for all, with low-inflation economic growth, during the Keynesian 'welfare state' -'deficit spending' era (1946-1973), aka 'the golden age of  capitalism'.
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Frank
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Re: Socialism
Reply #422 - Yesterday at 5:02pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:17pm:
Frank wrote Yesterday at 1:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 6th, 2026 at 4:38pm:
Abdul El-Sayed explaining his stance on on radio today:

"I'm not confined by definitions of Right or Left; I promote what the people tell me they want eg, medicare for all, and secure affordable housing for all".

Conservative ideologues like lee consider these things to be beyond a government's capacities, even though various governments have delivered them since 1946, either in the keynesian deficit spending era, or in high taxing Scandinavian regimes. 





LANSING, MI — During a live interview on Fox News, Democratic Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed forcefully defended the beheading of infidels, explaining it was really the same thing as a haircut.

"Have you had a haircut, Jesse?" retorted El-Sayed, upon being asked whether he supported cutting off people's heads with a machete. "Clearly you have no problem with people using sharp objects to cut off parts of your head. Yet, because of your bigotry, you want to deny infidels the opportunity to have their heads cut off with a machete. Your disgusting hypocrisy could not be more apparent."

Watters tried to argue that slicing a person's head off was actually different than a haircut, but to no avail. "It's too late. I completely owned you, Jesse. You and your gorgeous head of hair," said El-Sayed. "Everyone can see how foolish you are, getting haircuts but thinking that beheading is morally wrong. Scissors are literally just two machete blades put together. What a dope you are! Oh man. I'm so embarrassed for you right now."

At publishing time, a sobbing Watters had admitted that he was beaten, then went to the salon for a trim to lift his spirits.



What gives?

Satire (?) won't save you.

Even Menzies, Oz's longest serving PM,  delivered housing (public or private) and jobs for all, with low-inflation economic growth, during the Keynesian 'welfare state' -'deficit spending' era (1946-1973), aka 'the golden age of  capitalism'.

You are parotinb silly rot again.

Between 1945 and 1972, the Australian Government maintained exceptionally low deficit levels, frequently achieving budget surpluses while aggressively reducing the massive public debt accumulated during World War II. This post-war era, dominated by the Chifley Labor government and the long-running Menzies-led Coalition, is recognized as a period of extreme fiscal conservatism and structural economic growth.


There was very limited welfare for non-citizens. Integration and assimilation, not multiculturaliam, was the policy  - a lot easier with culturally compatible European immigrants.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Socialism
Reply #423 - Yesterday at 5:55pm
 
Frank wrote Yesterday at 5:02pm:
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 4:17pm:
Frank wrote Yesterday at 1:45pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Aug 6th, 2026 at 4:38pm:
Abdul El-Sayed explaining his stance on on radio today:

"I'm not confined by definitions of Right or Left; I promote what the people tell me they want eg, medicare for all, and secure affordable housing for all".

Conservative ideologues like lee consider these things to be beyond a government's capacities, even though various governments have delivered them since 1946, either in the keynesian deficit spending era, or in high taxing Scandinavian regimes. 





LANSING, MI — During a live interview on Fox News, Democratic Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed forcefully defended the beheading of infidels, explaining it was really the same thing as a haircut.

"Have you had a haircut, Jesse?" retorted El-Sayed, upon being asked whether he supported cutting off people's heads with a machete. "Clearly you have no problem with people using sharp objects to cut off parts of your head. Yet, because of your bigotry, you want to deny infidels the opportunity to have their heads cut off with a machete. Your disgusting hypocrisy could not be more apparent."

Watters tried to argue that slicing a person's head off was actually different than a haircut, but to no avail. "It's too late. I completely owned you, Jesse. You and your gorgeous head of hair," said El-Sayed. "Everyone can see how foolish you are, getting haircuts but thinking that beheading is morally wrong. Scissors are literally just two machete blades put together. What a dope you are! Oh man. I'm so embarrassed for you right now."

At publishing time, a sobbing Watters had admitted that he was beaten, then went to the salon for a trim to lift his spirits.



What gives?

Satire (?) won't save you.

Even Menzies, Oz's longest serving PM,  delivered housing (public or private) and jobs for all, with low-inflation economic growth, during the Keynesian 'welfare state' -'deficit spending' era (1946-1973), aka 'the golden age of  capitalism'.


You are parotinb silly rot again.

Between 1945 and 1972, the Australian Government maintained exceptionally low deficit levels, frequently achieving budget surpluses while aggressively reducing the massive public debt accumulated during World War II. This post-war era, dominated by the Chifley Labor government and the long-running Menzies-led Coalition, is recognized as a period of extreme fiscal conservatism and structural economic growth
.

Your first error:

(google AI)

No, the Australian Government did not frequently achieve budget surpluses during the post-war Keynesian era (1946–1973); rather, it maintained exceptionally low and stable deficits. While it is true that the government maintained remarkably disciplined fiscal metrics, the primary mechanism of debt reduction was rapid economic expansion and inflation rather than structural budget surpluses.

The Fiscal Reality (1946–1973)
Consistent Small Deficits: Throughout the 1950s and 1960s economic booms, the federal government typically ran minor, planned budget deficits averaging around 1% to 2% of GDP.

The "Denominator" Effect: Gross public debt drastically plummeted from an all-time peak of 120% of GDP in 1946 down to just 8% by 1974. This occurred not because the government paid off the nominal debt through surpluses, but because the size of the Australian economy (the denominator) grew at a pace that made the pre-existing war debt negligible.

High post-war inflation effectively eroded the real value of old debt, allowing the government to comfortably run small deficits to fund massive nation-building projects (such as the Snowy Mountains Scheme) and public infrastructure for immigration (including public and private housing).

Macroeconomic Performance:

According to historical papers from the Australian National University (ANU) Press, the late Menzies and early Whitlam years (specifically 1961–1973) did manage to balance out closely, with brief pockets of surplus. However, overall fiscal management focused primarily on "fine-tuning" demand to maintain full employment rather than prioritizing a zero-deficit balance sheet. Because recoveries from recessions were so swift during this "Golden Age of Keynesianism," the modest deficit spending never threatened long-term fiscal sustainability


Quote:
There was very limited welfare for non-citizens.


That's because employment, housing and education (aka the 'Keynesian welfare state') was delivered for all by post war governments. Unemploymnet was typically c 2% - cf c. 4% in the post Tharcher neoliberal/neoclassical era ushered in by the Arab oil embargo (1973).

 
Quote:
Integration and assimilation, not multiculturaliam, was the policy  - a lot easier with culturally compatible European immigrants.


Diversion: the economic system, not cultural identity, is key to an economy which works for all.

Yes, islamic terrorism caused by the UN's recreation of Israel is wreaking social havoc in the 'infidel' Western democracies, but it's the market economy ideologues directed by Neoclassical stooges who will destroy national economies, as governments forced to lower taxes and cut spending  are no longer able to  deliver essential public services for the working class.

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lee
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Re: Socialism
Reply #424 - Yesterday at 6:28pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 5:55pm:
However, overall fiscal management focused primarily on "fine-tuning" demand to maintain full employment rather than prioritizing a zero-deficit balance sheet. Because recoveries from recessions were so swift during this "Golden Age of Keynesianism," the modest deficit spending never threatened long-term fiscal sustainability



Whereas now the the current government is tax and spend more.

BTW - How did you go with the Law of Diminishing Return? You never responded. Wink
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Re: Socialism
Reply #425 - Today at 10:50am
 
lee wrote Yesterday at 6:28pm:
thegreatdivide wrote Yesterday at 5:55pm:
However, overall fiscal management focused primarily on "fine-tuning" demand to maintain full employment rather than prioritizing a zero-deficit balance sheet. Because recoveries from recessions were so swift during this "Golden Age of Keynesianism," the modest deficit spending never threatened long-term fiscal sustainability


Whereas now the the current government is tax and spend more



Your error:after post-Thatcher Neoclassical governments REDUCED top marginal tax rates on the wealthy,  govts are now  forced to reduce spending while chasing surpluses.

Quote:
BTW - How did you go with the Law of Diminishing Return? You never responded. Wink


I didn't see it, please cite the post number.

(Speaking of responding, I wonder how long it will take Frank to respond....) 
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Frank
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Re: Socialism
Reply #426 - Today at 10:55am
 
U.S. — Singer-songwriter Billie Eilish unveiled a brand-new perfume on Friday called "Socialism," which will retail for just $72,000.

Eilish, a staunch opponent of capitalism, sought to create a fragrance that, like its namesake, would create a wide chasm between the general populace and the ruling elite.

"'Socialism' smells like death, which is a thing I like," Eilish said of the cadaverous-scented fragrance. "So I decided to dump a bunch of chemicals into a vat and stir it around until it smelled how I imagine socialism would smell, which is bad."

"It smells like the way I see the world," she said. "Which is why I never smile."

The expensive perfume is priced at a premium, designed to build as much capital as possible to fund Eilishland, a floating island fortress in international waters where Eilish can rule her own socialist utopia with an iron fist.

Early sales of Socialism were reportedly scant, however, as many of Eilish's diehard fans remained unemployed and destitute, unable to afford even an ounce of the exotic fragrance.

Senator Bernie Sanders said of the new perfume, "Finally, I will be able to love the way my wife smells! It's just terrific, I tell you. Terrific."

Eilish expressed hope that demand for Socialism would soon outperform bread lines in Cuba.

At publishing time, Billie Eilish blamed poor sales of the perfume on capitalism.
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Re: Socialism
Reply #427 - Today at 10:55am
 
TheGreatDivide v Lee.
Good stoush.
My $$$ is on Lee.
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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.
 
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Re: Socialism
Reply #428 - Today at 12:38pm
 
Frank wrote Today at 10:55am:
U.S. — Singer-songwriter Billie Eilish unveiled a brand-new perfume on Friday called "Socialism," which will retail for just $72,000.

Eilish, a staunch opponent of capitalism, sought to create a fragrance that, like its namesake, would create a wide chasm between the general populace and the ruling elite.

"'Socialism' smells like death, which is a thing I like," Eilish said of the cadaverous-scented fragrance. "So I decided to dump a bunch of chemicals into a vat and stir it around until it smelled how I imagine socialism would smell, which is bad."

"It smells like the way I see the world," she said. "Which is why I never smile."

The expensive perfume is priced at a premium, designed to build as much capital as possible to fund Eilishland, a floating island fortress in international waters where Eilish can rule her own socialist utopia with an iron fist.

Early sales of Socialism were reportedly scant, however, as many of Eilish's diehard fans remained unemployed and destitute, unable to afford even an ounce of the exotic fragrance.

Senator Bernie Sanders said of the new perfume, "Finally, I will be able to love the way my wife smells! It's just terrific, I tell you. Terrific."

Eilish expressed hope that demand for Socialism would soon outperform bread lines in Cuba.

At publishing time, Billie Eilish blamed poor sales of the perfume on capitalism.


Just as I expected: rather than addressing the Keynes deficit spending versus Neoclassical balanced buget debate -  which he lost (courtesy google AI),  Frank descends into gibberish.

A loss for Thatcher economics....


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Re: Socialism
Reply #429 - Today at 12:51pm
 
Jasin wrote Today at 10:55am:
TheGreatDivide v Lee.
Good stoush.
My $$$ is on Lee.


What part of "after post-Thatcher Neoclassical governments REDUCED top marginal tax rates on the wealthy, govts are now forced to reduce spending while chasing surpluses"
did you fail to understand?

And how do you propose to reverse the socially disastrous explosion of inequality in 1st world countries?

eg.

https://patrioticmillionaires.org/

Tax the Rich
Pay the People
Spread the Power


America currently faces two interrelated problems: 1) authoritarianism and 2) the destabilizing level of inequality that led to its rise. If we do not solve both problems, democratic capitalism in America will fall to authoritarian forces by 2028. The fall of democratic capitalism in America will open the door to global oligarchic dominance which, exacerbated by AI and climate change, will become permanent.

The solution to this problem is surprisingly simple: structure the economy so that it naturally produces the results needed for a rich, stable and free nation.


Unfortunately  Trump has failed to deal with the "destabilizing level of inequality" - the reason he was elected.

Ditto in the UK, where  Starmer was booted out after only 2 years...and now Burnham is facing the same fate.





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Re: Socialism
Reply #430 - Today at 1:42pm
 
less than ten years after the war people already were talking about the German economic miracle.

What caused the so-called miracle? The two main factors were currency reform and the elimination of price controls, both of which happened over a period of weeks in 1948. A further factor was the reduction of marginal tax rates later in 1948 and in 1949.
https://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/GermanEconomicMiracle.html


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Re: Socialism
Reply #431 - Today at 1:46pm
 
Nations do not flourish primarily because they are well endowed with natural resources. Geography, climate, culture and natural resources matter, but at the margins.

There is ample evidence, with several compelling longitudinal case studies in history to substantiate that point.

Korea was one people, one culture, one geography in 1945. Today, South Korea is 50 times richer than the North.

The city of Berlin offers perhaps the closest thing to a pure laboratory “experiment” of all. Here was a single city – same people, same language, same industrial heritage, facing the same rubble in 1945 – split down the middle by an accident of military occupation.

Within a generation West Berliners drove Mercedes, BMWs and Audis, whereas their Eastern cousins had to wait for 15 years to take delivery of a Trabant. The gap grew so visible, so undeniable over time, that the East German state had to build a wall not to keep enemies out but to keep its own citizens in.

Then there is the Argentina and Australia case study, which shows how differing institutions divide near-identical starting points.

In 1900, Argentina and Australia were twin economies: vast, temperate, resource-rich settler nations, both among the richest countries on earth per capita, both feeding and clothing the world from fertile plains.

Australia built durable, impartial institutions – an independent judiciary, a professional civil service, stable democratic transitions – and, crucially, when its post-war protectionist model ran out of road, it found the political means to reform, opening its economy up in earnest from the 1980s onward and locking in decades of unbroken growth.

In comparison, Argentina fell into a cycle of institutional volatility: coups and constitutional ruptures, courts bent to executive will, property rights that shifted with each government and repeated resort to inflation and default as instruments of policy.

Same endowments, same era, same opportunities in the world economy – but one country made its rules predictable and its politics self-correcting, while the other made both negotiable and unstable.

Nations flourish when they build effective, inclusive, democratic institutions: secure property rights, enforceable contracts, impartial courts and constraints on those who hold power.

Beneath all of this lies something harder to legislate: trust.

Trust is both a cause and a consequence of good institutions.

...
A useful recent illustration comes from a large panel study covering 113 countries from 1995 to 2022, examining what actually predicts long-run income per capita once you control for the usual suspects.

The finding, put simply, is that the rule of law, control of corruption and judicial effectiveness are among the strongest predictors of per capita income, even accounting for other national characteristics and global shocks.

Political ideology matters, in that it shapes the size of the state and its openness to trade. But its effect on growth is substantially absorbed by the strength of the underlying institutions and the commitment to preserving them.

As the authors of that study put it, a government of the right with weak institutions rarely produces a genuine economic boom and a government of the left with strong rule of law rarely produces a crisis.

China is the standing counter-example thrown at anyone who makes the case I am making.

It has produced extraordinary growth over four decades while ranking, on the most recent World Justice Project index, 92nd in the world for rule of law.

China’s institutions are not weak in the sense of lacking capacity. They can design, decide and enforce with formidable effectiveness. What they lack, by deliberate design, is what we mean by the rule of law: independent adjudication, transparency and binding constraints on the exercise of state power.

Growth can indeed occur for a period without those features, where a state substitutes administrative discretion, forced savings and a determined industrial strategy for the predictability that the rule of law would otherwise provide.

But it is worth noting two things.

First, that model has real costs – misallocated capital, the economic risks associated with overcapacity because of production decisions that are too insulated from market signals, non-performing loans and a growth trajectory now visibly decelerating as the low-hanging fruit of catch-up growth is exhausted.

Second, and more important for this room, China’s path is not an available alternative for economies such as ours – nor one we would want.

For open, rules-based, trade-dependent economies the rule of law and institutional capacity and strength are the core foundation of strong economic development and growth.

The nations that flourish are those that have found ways, through crisis, leadership or good luck, to make democratic rules self-enforcing, so that prosperity no longer depends on the virtue of any individual but on the architecture of the system itself.

(From an edited extract of the 2026 Quayside Chambers Oration delivered by Mathias Cormann, secretary-general of the OECD and the longest serving finance minister in Australia – serving under the Abbott, Turnbull and Morrison Liberal governments – to a private gathering of lawyers and judges in Perth on Wednesday.)
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Re: Socialism
Reply #432 - Today at 1:55pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote Today at 10:50am:
after post-Thatcher Neoclassical governments REDUCED top marginal tax rates on the wealthy,  govts are now  forced to reduce spending while chasing surpluses.


Nope. They now have a higher number of cattle class to glean. Spending on failed projects tops the bill. Cool

thegreatdivide wrote Today at 10:50am:
I didn't see it, please cite the post number.



Find it yourself. you do know how to use the search function don't you? Shocked

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Re: Socialism
Reply #433 - Today at 2:08pm
 
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1635668533/429#429 date=1787971903]The solution to this problem is surprisingly simple: structure the economy so that it naturally produces the results needed for a rich, stable and free nation.

...
https://patrioticmillionaires.org/[/quote]

Unfortunately for you, you haven't read it properly.

"Wealthy investors now pay far lower tax rates selling their stocks, bonds, and real estate holdings than most working people do on their biweekly paychecks."  Edit: note the word selling.

"Creates a tax code that treats income the same, regardless of source."

Capital gains are not income.

https://patrioticmillionaires.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/03/America-250_-The-Mo...


So you have a giant souffle, made up of nothing really. Cool


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