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the Great Chinese Famine (Read 14010 times)
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #240 - Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:58pm
 
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So many farkwits, so little time.
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #241 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 9:40am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 6:01pm:
Quote:
No, you claimed I was contradicting myself, then said you were merely asking a question.


Do you know how to identify a question?


Yes, though your question here shows intent to commit fraud, as usual, to avoid debate...as identified in the voice debate.

Fraud.

speaking of the debate: (from #231)

"Truth always deserves to be known; but past events may have little relevence to present problems.

Most elderly Chinese  remember the experience of absolute poverty, they are amazed by the nation's progress over a mere 4 decades.

Of course, recently Xi has discovered the evil side-effects of neoliberlism, and is taking the necessary steps to eliminate those evils, as the paranoid US - intent on maintaining global hegemony - is attempting to decouple from China's vast supply chains in the 'factory of the world'
."

You of course ignored everything after the first paragraph, the very thing you erroneously  accused me of doing  in the voice debate.

Your fraudulence knows no bounds.

btw, Chinese life expectancy surpassed the US's this year: in the US not only due to covid, but also inter alia guns, drugs, traffic accidents, malnutriton leading to obesity, and suicide.

The most neoliberal ("individual self-reliance"/"personal responsibility") economy in the world.

You harking back to events in China pre 1990's won't save your evil ideology from world-wide condemnation, as US life expectancy continues to fall behind China's.
   

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freediver
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #242 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:36pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:26am:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 9:49am:
random wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 8:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 5:42pm:
Is the Great Chinese Famine a truth that people deserve to know about?


No.


Why not?


Truth always deserves to be known; but past events may have little relevence to present problems.


Do you think history has nothing to teach us? Like how the CCP might behave in the future?
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random
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #243 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 7:02pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:26am:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 9:49am:
random wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 8:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 5:42pm:
Is the Great Chinese Famine a truth that people deserve to know about?


No.


Why not?


Truth always deserves to be known; but past events may have little relevence to present problems.


Do you think history has nothing to teach us? Like how the CCP might behave in the future?


Well played FD!

In two sentences, two more rhetorical questions designed to troll and elicit a flame war to generate yet more clicks!

What a master at the top of his game.

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freediver
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #244 - Sep 12th, 2022 at 8:56pm
 
Maybe I actually want to know what sort of denial you two are in regarding the Great Chinese Famine. You feel compelled to respond on the subject, but you are afraid to say anything.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #245 - Sep 13th, 2022 at 5:37pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 12th, 2022 at 6:36pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 10:26am:
freediver wrote on Sep 11th, 2022 at 9:49am:
random wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 8:11pm:
freediver wrote on Sep 9th, 2022 at 5:42pm:
Is the Great Chinese Famine a truth that people deserve to know about?


No.


Why not?


Truth always deserves to be known; but past events may have little relevence to present problems.


Do you think history has nothing to teach us?


No.

Quote:
Like how the CCP might behave in the future?


Hopefully we all - including the CCP - learn from experience.....in the search,  for example, for common prosperity. 

aka  'promoting the general welfare', in the preamble to the US constitution - a goal miserably eluding the US still.....

 
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freediver
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #246 - Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm
 
Quote:
Hopefully we all - including the CCP - learn from experience.....in the search,  for example, for common prosperity.


Are the Chinese people generally aware of how many people died in the Great Chinese Famine?

What lesson do you think the CCP might learn from getting away with starving 50 million people to death?
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #247 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:12pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 13th, 2022 at 6:04pm:
Quote:
Hopefully we all - including the CCP - learn from experience.....in the search,  for example, for common prosperity.


Are the Chinese people generally aware of how many people died in the Great Chinese Famine?


Don't know; I do know most elderly Chinese remember the actual experience of absolute poverty, and are amazed by the nation's transformation since those days.

Meanwhile the US is in decline, with China's average life expectancy - for 1.4 billion people - surpassing the US's 330 million -  last year. Ouch.

Quote:
What lesson do you think the CCP might learn from getting away with starving 50 million people to death?


Don't do it again....
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #248 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 6:25pm
 
Quote:
I do know most elderly Chinese remember the actual experience of absolute poverty


The starvation was not equally spread. I think it actually tended to be in the agricultural regions. So they may remember being hungry, but not all the dead people. Also, even while it was starving the Chinese people to death, the CCP propaganda machine still managed to keep them convinced that they were wealthier than westerners.
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #249 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:34pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 12:12pm:
Meanwhile the US is in decline, with China's average life expectancy - for 1.4 billion people - surpassing the US's 330 million -  last year. Ouch.


Ha ha! Ahhh! CCP stats.

Saw one CCP poll that claimed China was the 4th most popular destination for Americans!

Even the Chinese people weren't buying it, making jokes on social media about what an attraction it must be to come to a paranoid, suspicious country, with no access to world internet services and content, to queue up to be tested 3 times a week for covid and locked down in their hotel room for days on end with no food.
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #250 - Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:38pm
 
If the average American wage went down from $50k to $49k, and the average Chinese wage went up from 1 bowl of rice to two bowls, TGD would claim it as a victory for communism.
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #251 - Sep 15th, 2022 at 11:34am
 
freediver wrote on Sep 14th, 2022 at 7:38pm:
If the average American wage went down from $50k to $49k, and the average Chinese wage went up from 1 bowl of rice to two bowls, TGD would claim it as a victory for communism.


eventually of course 'communisn' WOULD triumph.... if that process kept replicating....

meanwhile the declining life expectancy stats in the US are a disgrace to the US's extreme neoliberal  free market 'sink or swim' ethos.
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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #252 - Sep 15th, 2022 at 5:03pm
 
Quote:
eventually of course 'communisn' WOULD triumph.... if that process kept replicating....


When would they triumph? Four bowls of rice a day? 6?

Wouldn't they just get fat like the Americans?

An interesting excerpt from the wikipedia article on the great Chinese famine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine#Initial_reactions_and_cover-u
ps

Researchers outside China have argued that the massive institutional and policy changes which accompanied the Great Leap Forward were the key factors in the famine, or at least worsened nature-induced disasters.[128][129] In particular, Nobel laureate Amartya Sen puts this famine in a global context, arguing that lack of democracy is the major culprit: "Indeed, no substantial famine has ever occurred in a democratic country—no matter how poor." He adds that it is "hard to imagine that anything like this could have happened in a country that goes to the polls regularly and that has an independent press. During that terrible calamity the government faced no pressure from newspapers, which were controlled, and none from opposition parties, which were absent."
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« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2022 at 5:13pm by freediver »  

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #253 - Sep 16th, 2022 at 4:00pm
 
freediver wrote on Sep 15th, 2022 at 5:03pm:
[quote]eventually of course 'communisn' WOULD triumph.... if that process kept replicating....


When would they triumph? Four bowls of rice a day? 6? Quote:
you haven't heard of the surplus value of production, please educate yourself.


[quote]An interesting excerpt from the wikipedia article on the great Chinese famine:


like i said: irrelevant to present circumstances, in which neoliberalism is about to cause another global recession. 

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #254 - Sep 16th, 2022 at 6:47pm
 
8 bowls?
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