Australian Politics Forum - the Great Chinese Famine

thegreatdivide

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #165 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 3:57pm

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 5:05pm:

You deflected. Let's try again. Do you deny that the CCP helped the virus spread by covering up the initial outbreak?

I don't know. It was apparently already circulating overseas.

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How many of them starved to death?

The entire population were slowly starving to death, that's what absolute poverty does - dead on average at 35 years of age.

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Have they since developed any rules about not killing millions of people with incompetence?

Certainly have; and since 1990 they have overseen the fastest increase in living standards and life expectancy of any nation in history ( now exceeding the US life expectancy)

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Can you name any other non-communist nation on earth, from any time in history, that starved 50 million people to death by actually trying to feed them?

No. But China and India have always been the most populous nations, and your point has already been addresed: incompetence in 1960 is irrelevant to success now.

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Are you slow or something? Why do you keep parroting this nonsense? 50 times nothing is still nothing.

Wrong. 50 times $200 (absolute poverty) = $10,000...almost middle income level.

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You are like a teenager bragging about his income going up 1000000% when he gets his first job.

Never in history have a billion people increased their income from $200 to $10,000 in a mere generation.

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Except instead of giving birth to them, the CCP merely refrained from starving them to death with lies and incompetence.

Refuted by the facts, above. Middle income status is not to be sneezed at.

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FutureTheLeftWant

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #166 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 4:04pm

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 5:05pm:

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The journalists picked up on what the doctor had not yet determined, naturally the CCP was not pleased.
So how many journalists were jailed, in the two months before the doctor was exonerated by the CCP?

The CCP can give itself a million gold stars for it's handling of the virus outbreak. That doesn't change the fact that it tried to cover it up, and in doing so probably condemned millions of innocent people to death.

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Addressed above

You deflected. Let's try again. Do you deny that the CCP helped the virus spread by covering up the initial outbreak?

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Er ....with a poverty-induced life expectancy of less than 35 years in China, 1900 - 1950, there's your figure.

How many of them starved to death?

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They were incompetent because there was no set of rules to follow, to lift the vast population out of poverty.

Have they since developed any rules about not killing millions of people with incompetence?

Can you name any other non-communist nation on earth, from any time in history, that starved 50 million people to death by actually trying to feed them?

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Meanwhile, "Marxist" China has increased per capita GDP for over a billion people, since 1980, by 50 times.

Are you slow or something? Why do you keep parroting this nonsense? 50 times nothing is still nothing. You are like a teenager bragging about his income going up 1000000% when he gets his first job. Except instead of giving birth to them, the CCP merely refrained from starving them to death with lies and incompetence.

you don't seem very bright.....

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freediver

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #167 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:07pm

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I don't know.

You know an aweful lot about the things you think the CCP did right with covid. Who is controlling what you know?

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The entire population were slowly starving to death, that's what absolute poverty does - dead on average at 35 years of age.

Such a low average age was not unusual in history and does not necessarily imply people literally starving to death. It can arise from high infant mortality, lack of medical care, war etc. Furthermore, the CCP didn't achieve 50 millions deaths by reducing food production alone. They had the food. It was their efforts at distributing food equally to everyone, and their tendency to lie, that did it.

If people have just enough food to eat, and a bunch of habitual liars take control of that food promising to distribute it evenly, it is inevitable that people will starve, because if everyone is lying you have no way of even knowing where the food needs to be sent.

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Certainly have

What are they?

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incompetence in 1960 is irrelevant to success now

Only if they learn from their mistakes, which they obviously have not, seeing as they repeat them whenever the opportunity arises.

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Never in history have a billion people increased their income from $200 to $10,000 in a mere generation.

The wonders of capitalism. And all they had to do was get out of the way.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 52095 At my desk.	Re: the Great Chinese Famine Reply #168 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:08pm thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 3:36pm: freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 7:16pm: If you answer, I will stop asking. Already done: incompetence in 1960. Yea. What about incompetence in 1960? You cannot actually bring yourself to give a straight answer can you?
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thegreatdivide

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #169 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:26pm

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 7:16pm:

If you answer, I will stop asking.

Already done: incompetence in 1960.

Yea. What about incompetence in 1960? You cannot actually bring yourself to give a straight answer can you?

You are claiming the CCP murdered 50 million people in 1960.

I am claiming CCP incompetence in 1960.

Your point?

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freediver

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #170 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:35pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:26pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 7:16pm:

If you answer, I will stop asking.

Already done: incompetence in 1960.

Yea. What about incompetence in 1960? You cannot actually bring yourself to give a straight answer can you?

You are claiming the CCP murdered 50 million people in 1960.

I am claiming CCP incompetence in 1960.

Your point?

Just trying to figure out what you are saying.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #171 - Jun 14^th, 2022 at 8:26pm

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:26pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:08pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 3:36pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 13^th, 2022 at 7:16pm:

If you answer, I will stop asking.

Already done: incompetence in 1960.

Yea. What about incompetence in 1960? You cannot actually bring yourself to give a straight answer can you?

You are claiming the CCP murdered 50 million people in 1960.

I am claiming CCP incompetence in 1960.

Your point?

Just trying to figure out what you are saying.

No need to think too hard about it.

If he's Chinese, one of two things are for sure:

If he lives in China, he only has access to a VPN while he's advancing CCP propaganda.

If he lives outside of China, with family in the mainland, the CCP will get to his family if he crosses the CCP line.

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thegreatdivide Gold Member Offline Australian Politics<br /> Posts: 14831 Gender:	Re: the Great Chinese Famine Reply #172 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:05pm freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:35pm: Just trying to figure out what you are saying. Well now you know. Now let's see what Meister says I am saying....
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #173 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:15pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:05pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 5:35pm:

Just trying to figure out what you are saying.

Well now you know. Now let's see what Meister says I am saying....

That depends on whether you're Chinese with mainland connections:

Then, if you live in China, you'd only have access to a VPN while you're advancing CCP propaganda.

Or if you live outside of China, with family in the mainland, the CCP will get to your family if you cross the CCP line.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #174 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:23pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 8:26pm:

No need to think too hard about it.

Not a good start....

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If he's Chinese, one of two things are for sure:

He's not Chinese but let's read on...

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If he lives in China, he only has access to a VPN while he's advancing CCP propaganda.

At this stage of China's development toward achieving "a moderately prosperous socialist society in all respects" (by 2049, the centenary of CCP rule), the CCP needs to resist violent individual "freedom" ideologues who would tear the country apart ...like the mob in the US Capitol riots.

Hence censoring of some Western media...just as Trump himself has been blocked by Twitter....

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If he lives outside of China, with family in the mainland, the CCP will get to his family if he crosses the CCP line.

I'm here to expose the egregious evils of your delusional "natural individual rights" ideology.

I support the UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights, not your paranoid 'national sovereignty' demand for the "right" to wage "legal" war.

I'm not sure what the CCP thinks of this stance, though the CCP supports multilateralism as opposed to US ("America First") exceptionalism.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #175 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:51pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 14^th, 2022 at 8:26pm:

No need to think too hard about it.

Not a good start....

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If he's Chinese, one of two things are for sure:

He's not Chinese but let's read on...

Ah, a geriatric 50's style 'commie' still in the grip of Uncle Joe's charisma.

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MeisterEckhart

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #176 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:59pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:23pm:

At this stage of China's development toward achieving "a moderately prosperous socialist society in all respects" (by 2049, the centenary of CCP rule), the CCP needs to resist violent[i] individual "freedom"

Yes, of course.

Banning the Chinese people from access to a VPN has nothing to do with preventing CCP crimes and corruption from being exposed.

So why does the CCP go hysterical when something leaks that shows up the CCP for the brutal power-hungry regime it is?

I saw a video recently taken by a Chinese citizen of his best friend's wedding. He uploaded it onto Weibo. It was instantly taken down and he was arrested.

Why? The friend and he happened to be poor so, naturally, their circumstances were obvious in the video. This (apparently) made the CCP look bad ('cos there's been no poverty in China since the CCP said there wasn't in 2018) so he was charged with smearing China's image.

The sad thing is, neither he nor his friend were ashamed of their poverty. They wanted people of the area to share in the happiness of the occasion.

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thegreatdivide

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #177 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:23pm

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:23pm:

At this stage of China's development toward achieving "a moderately prosperous socialist society in all respects" (by 2049, the centenary of CCP rule), the CCP needs to resist violent[i] individual "freedom"

Yes, of course.

Banning the Chinese people from access to a VPN has nothing to do with preventing CCP crimes and corruption from being exposed.

Not more so than dealing with corruption in government of ANY stripe, let's see if Albo can get an ICAC up and running. Xi is well known for his reforming efforts.

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So why does the CCP go hysterical when something leaks that shows up the CCP for the brutal power-hungry regime it is?

It doesn't, and it isn't.

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I saw a video recently taken by a Chinese citizen of his best friend's wedding. He uploaded it onto Weibo. It was instantly taken down and he was arrested.

Why? The friend and he happened to be poor so, naturally, their circumstances were obvious in the video. This (apparently) made the CCP look bad ('cos there's been no poverty in China since the CCP said there wasn't in 2018) so he was charged with smearing China's image.

The sad thing is, neither he nor his friend were ashamed of their poverty. They wanted people of the area to share in the happiness of the occasion.

Hmmm... not ashamed of their poverty? ...I wonder what that poverty looked like...disfigured bodies?

Meanwhile aboriginal poverty - or ANY poverty - can be very confronting.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 55130 Gender:	Re: the Great Chinese Famine Reply #178 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:32pm When American White Men 'invaded' Yellow Vietnam. Black Men invaded their white women and got some hippy free love back in the States.
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MeisterEckhart

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Re: the Great Chinese Famine
Reply #179 - Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:34pm

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 5:23pm:

MeisterEckhart wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:59pm:

thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 15^th, 2022 at 2:23pm:

At this stage of China's development toward achieving "a moderately prosperous socialist society in all respects" (by 2049, the centenary of CCP rule), the CCP needs to resist violent[i] individual "freedom"

Yes, of course.

Banning the Chinese people from access to a VPN has nothing to do with preventing CCP crimes and corruption from being exposed.

Not more so than dealing with corruption in government of ANY stripe, let's see if Albo can get an ICAC up and running. Xi is well known for his reforming efforts.

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So why does the CCP go hysterical when something leaks that shows up the CCP for the brutal power-hungry regime it is?

It doesn't, and it isn't.

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I saw a video recently taken by a Chinese citizen of his best friend's wedding. He uploaded it onto Weibo. It was instantly taken down and he was arrested.

Why? The friend and he happened to be poor so, naturally, their circumstances were obvious in the video. This (apparently) made the CCP look bad ('cos there's been no poverty in China since the CCP said there wasn't in 2018) so he was charged with smearing China's image.

The sad thing is, neither he nor his friend were ashamed of their poverty. They wanted people of the area to share in the happiness of the occasion.

Hmmm... not ashamed of their poverty? ...I wonder what that poverty looked like...disfigured bodies?

Meanwhile aboriginal poverty - or ANY poverty - can be very confronting.

Xi is well known for his vengeance against the anti-Xi factions. Those in the Xi faction get a pass.

Anytime you want some examples of the lengths the CCP will go to exact revenge on those reporting CCP crimes and corruption internationally, let me know. There are hundreds of examples out there.

Would you like a link to the video of the wedding the guy published?

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