Australian Politics Forum - China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back

aquascoot

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #30 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:14pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

Quote:

They became economic slaves because once the system was established, making products as cheaply as possible was the only driver.

Hard work is not the same thing as slavery, despite the moral objection you seem to have to it. They literally lifted themselves out of poverty, and we have them to thank for our easy lifestyle.

that assumes we think an "easy " lifestyle is something to be thankful for.

it is actually catastrophic

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #31 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:15pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

Crap. All they ever achieved was trading off a few conditions for an increase in unemployment. They were not the driver for any real change.

No. It was the cause of all employers having to play by the same rules of justice and equity for the worker.

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freediver

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #32 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:16pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:14pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

Quote:

They became economic slaves because once the system was established, making products as cheaply as possible was the only driver.

Hard work is not the same thing as slavery, despite the moral objection you seem to have to it. They literally lifted themselves out of poverty, and we have them to thank for our easy lifestyle.

There's a difference between hard work and economic slavery... Read your Dickens.

Can you explain what the difference is?

Quote:

that assumes we think an "easy " lifestyle is something to be thankful for.

it is actually catastrophic

Life has been getting easier for centuries. When is this catastrophe going to come? Before or after Jesus?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back Reply #33 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:17pm aquascoot wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:14pm: that assumes we think an "easy " lifestyle is something to be thankful for. it is actually catastrophic so sell your cars, throw out your oven and microwave, throw out the washing machine and dryer ... and live by your beliefs.
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #34 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:18pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Can you explain what the difference is?

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

This is exactly what's happening in China, which is at about 1850 on European chronology.

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freediver

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #35 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:20pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

Crap. All they ever achieved was trading off a few conditions for an increase in unemployment. They were not the driver for any real change.

No. It was the cause of all employers having to play by the same rules of justice and equity for the worker.

It was not, as you claim, the fundamental driver for improved conditions. They can only ever fiddle around the edges, because unions play with the trade-off between unemployment and minimum standards. Every improvement they make comes at the expense of jobs. The improvements that result naturally from market forces do not.

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freediver

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #36 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:21pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:18pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Can you explain what the difference is?

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Crap.

Why do you deny market forces when it does not suit your propaganda, but trot them out when they do?

Here it is again for you. Try thinking before resp-onding:

You acknowledge market forces when it suits your childish, simplistic propaganda, but you deny the fact that factory owners etc also end up having to pay their employees more for less work, or risk losing them to the competition also.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #37 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:23pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:20pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:15pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:11pm:

Crap. All they ever achieved was trading off a few conditions for an increase in unemployment. They were not the driver for any real change.

No. It was the cause of all employers having to play by the same rules of justice and equity for the worker.

It was not, as you claim, the fundamental driver for improved conditions. They can only ever fiddle around the edges, because unions play with the trade-off between unemployment and minimum standards. Every improvement they make comes at the expense of jobs. The improvements that result naturally from market forces do not.

Anachronistic thought... What a curse.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #38 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:25pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:21pm:

NorthOfNorth wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:18pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:16pm:

Can you explain what the difference is?

Well, if there are no laws about how hard you can drive your workforce, then, ultimately they'll be driven to collapse.

Crap.

Why do you deny market forces when it does not suit your propaganda, but trot them out when they do?

Here it is again for you. Try thinking before resp-onding:

You acknowledge market forces when it suits your childish, simplistic propaganda, but you deny the fact that factory owners etc also end up having to pay their employees more for less work, or risk losing them to the competition also.

They all, equally, provide the worker with respectful conditions and pay, so the worker can have a life worth living and thereby securing the psychological wellbeing of his/her children and his/her children's children and... aww you get the point.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 53084 At my desk.	Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back Reply #39 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:26pm Quote: Anachronistic thought... What a curse Can you use reason and logic, rather than the simplistic, childish slogans you here at the local socialist club meeting? Quote: They all, equally Who are they?
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NorthOfNorth Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 17258 Gender:	Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back Reply #40 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:28pm freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:26pm: Quote: They all, equally Who are they? The employer.
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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41726 Gender:	Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back Reply #41 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:31pm China is sociopathic.
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freediver

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #42 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:31pm

Are you saying all employers are equal? Is this some form of absurd communism for the people you are jealous of?

The greatest driver for improved conditions, is employers offering people different conditions, and employees having the right to choose. The idea that improvement is driven by imposing the same standards on all employees and denying them choice is simply absurd. It is the unions playing God and pretending everyone wants the same thing and they know what it is.

Do you acknowledge that market forces force factory owners etc to pay their employees more for less work, or risk losing them to the competition?

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: China played dirty to get Huawei’s 'princess' back
Reply #43 - Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:34pm

freediver wrote on Sep 26^th, 2021 at 6:31pm:

The idea that improvement is driven by imposing the same standards on all employees and denying them choice is simply absurd.

It is the only reason employers are forced (and in many cases happy) to play fair to the employee.

Only the threat of proscription prevents exploitation... The lack of proscription is why slavery exists/existed and persisted for as long as it did.

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