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Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks (Read 7104 times)
NorthOfNorth
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #60 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 3:43pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 2:40pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 2:33pm:
Frank wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 11:23am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 11:05am:
Frank wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 11:00am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 9:33am:
tickleandrose wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 9:25am:
Gordon wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 9:17am:
Democracy and modernity was handed to them with a cherry on top but they didn't want it. 

Afghanistan is Taliban and Taliban is Afghanistan.


Gordon, aside, from select regions, and the capital, there was never any democracy or modernity for the general population of Afghanistan.   

You cant give democracy via a handful of military bases, guns and humvees.  It just wont happen. 

Those living in established democracies forget that democracy was not given by the gods; it evolved from internal socio-political baptisms of fire.

And very importantly, secular democracy has no presence in Islam. People are not created equal by Allah. Ideas matter and the idea of secular democracy is alien, even hostile, to the ideas of Islam. It is always an imposed facade, corrupted and deformed where it is adopted by Muslim countries.
What did the Afghans do after the Russians left? They had themselves a vicious civil war with the Taliban victorious. Thank you, Pakistan.

People are not created equal... Children work that out before they're 10.

Orthodox Christianity is fundamentally opposed to secular democracy by definition.

And so it is no accident that democracy really exists only in protestant countries, Britain  and its settler countries and north west Europe. Totally not accidentally, these are the only countries that never had totalitarian communist or fascist regimes.

Depends on who you ask, I guess. There was Oliver Cromwell, an authoritarian and dictator...

Although he did use his brand of puritanical Christianity to justify his rule of Britain and Ireland. Hitler pulled a similar trick on Pius XII regarding his dictatorship of Germany (being a mash of northern Protestantism and southern Catholicism) and Jewish persecution.

Trotsky viewed Cromwell as a class revolutionary.

Yeah, you could ask anyone completely irrelevant and they would give you completely irelevant answers, like what Leon thought of Oliver.  Or you could ask any other dictator in the various People's Democratic Republics about any number of other 17th or 18th century figures. Or you could ask a 10 year old child.

Agatha's back in the freezer, then...
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #61 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 4:01pm
 
The Axis of Arse'oles

As Taliban prepare to yet again, a quarter of a century later, take over Afghanistan, an olive branch is extended to China. China is a “friend,” says Taliban spokesman in Qatar, Suhail Shaheen, and Taliban are keen to discuss their participation in the Belt and Road initiative “as soon as possible”: “We have been to China many times, and we have good relations with them. China is a friendly country, and we welcome it for reconstruction and developing Afghanistan.”

The Taliban has assured Beijing it won’t tolerate Uighur separatists. The Taliban has strong ties with China’s close friend Pakistan.  But the Uighur jihadis are like the Taliban jihadis.

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/why-chinas-relationship-with-the-taliban-pose...



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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #62 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 5:13pm
 

'HEARTS AND ROSES' WAS PLAYING ON THE ABC NATIONAL RADIO TODAY......




2021-Aug-16  Mon....

Just been listening today, to interviews on the ABC radio, with some Afghani's, some now in Australia, and some still in Afghanistan.

They were speaking of their fears for their family members still in Afghanistan, and what the Taliban may do to their family members, now that the Taliban had authority in government there.

Understandable fears.

And, in case you did not know, the Taliban, in Afghanistan, follow Sunni ISLAM.


.


And yet....

In all of those interviews, none of those persons being interviewed, were identified as coming from the Shia ISLAM community.

Why was that ???

Perhaps it was assumed [by the ABC program producer], that the ABC radio listeners were already aware of this fact ?

Shia moslems are about 10% of the Afghanistan population.


.


And also, at no time during this radio broadcast was an important contrast made plain,
about what these particular Shia moslems would be doing to members of the Sunni ISLAM community in Afghanistan,
....if the circumstances in Afghanistan had been 180 degrees reversed.  !!

i.e.
If instead, the Afghanistan population were in fact, made up of 90% Shia
[and if it was the Taliban who were the minority Sunnis] !!

e.g.
IN 'CONTRAST'...... in Shia majority Iran,
minorities who do not obey the mullahs and who do not comply with the [ISLAMIC] laws of Shia ISLAM,
can find themselves interred within Iranian prisons,
and being tortured, raped and murdered   ...sorry, executed.

100% TRUE.



QUESTION;
So, should we Australians, all have so much sympathy, for one murderous group of moslems, who are being persecuted by another murderous group of moslems [because the 1st group are a minority - in situ. ] ?


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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Frank
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #63 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 5:39pm
 
Yadda wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 5:13pm:
QUESTION;
So, should we Australians, all have so much sympathy, for one murderous group of moslems, who are being persecuted by another murderous group of moslems [because the 1st group are a minority - in situ. ] ?





No, not at all.


I am not for the massacre and enslavement of women and girls, no matter what their religion. It is shame on the Afghan men who did not join the effort to make something of their country and folded faster than a cheap card table in the face of STRICT Islamic jihadis.

I have enormous sympathy for the small minority of Afghan men and women who, out of conviction not opportunism, helped the Americans, Australians and the rest of the West, trying to make something of the help they were given in order to make something better out of their own country. They are a small, very small minority, true, but they made sacrifices along with their Western helpers, to get Afghanistan up as a functioning, humane place. They failed, the West failed because the numbers were against them all along - but I still  sympathise with their heroism and efforts. They overestimated their own countrymen and the West. I think the Australian government and the bureaucracy let them down really badly.

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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #64 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 5:56pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 3:39pm:
The reason to go in was sound - to kill Bin Laden and Al Qaida.


That is kind of weird to kill off an employee and destroy the United States own terrorist network.

Quote:
Staying on for nation building was a naive mistake, although well-intentioned.


By the look of things, the Afghanis just do not want to be anything other than miserable.

Quote:
Staying on for 20 years when the futility of nation building became obvious was an unforgivable blunder by the top brass of the US. At that point limited Australian - and other non-American -  involvement was maintained for US alliance cultivation purposes, not for the sake of Afghans.

Now the Afghans can have another bloody and brutal jihad against each other, thee Taliban supported by Pakistan and the America and West left with its diplomatic, military, cultural, moral credibility in the toilet. If America cannot impose its will on a load of goatherds in sandals then it has no chance with the Chinese commies in Taiwan.


Best quote so far. The Americans cannot take on China.
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #65 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 10:27pm
 
Kabul Could Fall To The Taliban Within 90 Days, U.S. Intelligence Warns
Siladitya Ray
Updated Aug 12, 2021, 04:12am EDT


More like U.S. unintelligence.

Hillary's management of the Libyan Embassy was a disgrace. The Dementia Kid's management of Afghanistan is insane AND a disgrace.



The utter enervation and spineless self-evisceration of American and Western civilisational confidence is happening before our very eyes. Historic.



US embassy in Kabul  on twatter on 2 june 2021:


The month of June is recognized as (LGBTI) Pride Month. The United States respects the dignity & equality of LGBTI people & celebrates their contributions to the society. We remain committed to supporting civil rights of minorities, including LGBTI persons. #Pride2021 #PrideMonth

I do hope they've managed to evacuate the embassy's LGBTQWERTY flag before the sacking commences.


Prioriries, priorities.





The Taliban now controls more of Afghanistan than it did before the US invaded in 2001.
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« Last Edit: Aug 16th, 2021 at 10:38pm by Frank »  

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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #66 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 10:41pm
 
America is now "harmless as an enemy, and treacherous as a friend".

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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #67 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 10:48pm
 
Did the United States land their helicopter at their embassy to evacuate their staff, yet? Because that is what the president said that they would not do.
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #68 - Aug 16th, 2021 at 11:28pm
 
Apparently Kabul has fallen today - the President has fled - despite promises by the 'Taliban' that they would not actually invade the city, but would hold outside pending settlement.

Now, Poppets - that shows clearly how much faith you can place in 'Taliban' promises.  They promised a government of power sharing if the 'Allies' left - then instantly turned against that promise and launched a massive offensive.  then they said but yesterday that they would not enter the city, but would hold outside etc, and that nobody would be killed etc.

Now reports are of killings.... and anyone with any sense is struggling to get on a chopper or a plane out..

Tune the soundtrack, Igor.......

Well, the last plane out of Kabul is almost gone,
And in eleven flying hours,
They'll be landing far from home,
And there ain't nothing like the moxie,
Of a Dutton playing foxy,
To hump some Afghan asshole for months long...
You know, the last plane out of Kabul is almost go-one...
The last plane out of Kabul is almost gone
And it's really got 'em worried,
They're going nowhere in a hurry,
The last plane out of Kabul is almost gone.


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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #69 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 3:53pm
 
I just read the headlines in the New York Times because I am not going to pay to lied to: After not opposing the invasion, the NYT is now suggesting that the fall of Kabul is Joe Biden's fault. The pull-out has been on the US agenda for years. Long before Biden won the election.
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #70 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 4:04pm
 
issuevoter wrote on Aug 17th, 2021 at 3:53pm:
I just read the headlines in the New York Times because I am not going to pay to lied to: After not opposing the invasion, the NYT is now suggesting that the fall of Kabul is Joe Biden's fault. The pull-out has been on the US agenda for years. Long before Biden won the election.

Gives an insight to what kennedy, Johnson and Nixon feared during the Vietnam war and what Gerald Ford had to do in 1975.
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #71 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 4:33pm
 
Brave enough to climb aboard the wing of a plane. But not brave enough to fight against the Taliban. Could it be that the Afghanis have a problem killing other Islamists?
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #72 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 4:44pm
 
The fall of Kabul lies at the feet of the Military leadership. They were the one's saying that the Afghani military could hold out. That applies equally to the USA, Australia and others.

"Since early 2002, the war in Afghanistan never had a chance of succeeding. After President Bush’s initial objectives of disrupting al-Qaida and punishing the Taliban were accomplished by March 2002, the mission was changed to a nation-building operation that included objectives that were outright militarily unattainable. Presidents Obama and Trump continued the nation-building focus, guaranteeing the war would never be “won” and thus never end.

The illusion of success could be maintained so long as US and Nato military remained engaged. Now that the military cover is being withdrawn, the ugly and bloody truth is emerging: 20 years’ worth of senior leaders claiming progress, success, and “on the right azimuth” were always fiction.

The ANDSF have proven utterly incapable of defeating the Taliban offensive. On paper, this shouldn’t even be possible. Consider that the personnel for both the Taliban and the ANDSF are largely drawn from the same Afghan talent pool.

The side being routed right now has an army, on paper, of 300,000 men, been given training by the most powerful military alliance on earth, received hundreds of billions in support, has at least a rudimentary air force, an armored fleet and the backing of its government.

The Taliban, in contrast, has approximately 75,000 men, no formal backing from any state, no trained army, no air force, no technology, and only what vehicles and weapons they can scrounge on the open market – yet they are dominating their more numerous, better equipped and better-funded opponents. The reasons the ANDSF has thus far failed, however, are not hard to identify.

For the better part of at least the past 15 years, senior US civilian and uniformed leaders have been publicly telling the American people that the war in Afghanistan was necessary for US security, making progress, and supporting an Afghan security force that was performing well. All of it, from the beginning, was a lie.

In 2010 I wrote an article titled War on the Brink of Failure in the Armed Forces Journal that plainly stated, that “absent a major change in the status quo that currently dominates in Afghanistan, the US-led military effort there will fail … and despite our best effort to spin it otherwise, we will lose the war in Afghanistan.”

Two years later, while still an active-duty army officer and after my second combat deployment to Afghanistan, I wrote a detailed report which revealed that things had gotten much worse. Senior ranking US military leaders, I revealed, had intentionally deceived the American public.

“Despite overwhelming physical evidence of our failure to succeed on the military front,” I wrote, “senior US and [Nato] leaders inexplicably continue a steady stream of press releases and public statements that imply the exact opposite.” Without a change in strategy, I concluded, “the likelihood of the United States Armed Forces suffering an eventual defeat in Afghanistan is very high.”

The Pentagon’s response to my argument that we were losing the war? Lt Gen Curtis Scaparrotti, commander of US troops in Afghanistan at the time, dismissed my views as “one person’s opinion,” and said he was confident in the military’s optimistic appraisal. “These [Afghan] soldiers will fight,” the general confidently said, “There is no question about that. They are going to be good enough as we build them to secure their country and to counter the insurgency.” Scaparrotti was far from the only one to deceive the American people, however."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/14/afghanistan-taliban-us-tro...

Australian General's have also said similar about the Afghan National Defense Security Forces (ANDSF).
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #73 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 4:57pm
 
I always thought it was odd teaching Afghans how to fire a bullet. Australians do football, Afghans do guns.  The problem was not the soldiers, it was the politicians who failed everything, down to sending bullets to the camps.
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Re: Afghanistan ... Kabul may fall in weeks
Reply #74 - Aug 17th, 2021 at 7:21pm
 
Frank wrote on Aug 16th, 2021 at 10:27pm:

Kabul Could Fall To The Taliban Within 90 Days, U.S. Intelligence Warns

Siladitya Ray
Updated Aug 12, 2021, 04:12am EDT
......
......


US embassy in Kabul  on twatter on 2 june 2021:

The month of June is recognized as (LGBTI) Pride Month. The United States respects the dignity & equality of LGBTI people & celebrates their contributions to the society. We remain committed to supporting civil rights of minorities, including LGBTI persons. #Pride2021 #PrideMonth





Matt Walsh: There Are No More Rainbow Flags In Afghanistan

https://www.dailywire.com/episode/ep-776-there-are-no-more-rainbow-flags-in-afghanistan-2




Quote:

.....The utter enervation and spineless self-evisceration of American and Western civilisational confidence is happening before our very eyes.

Historic.



Without fail, it is moral degeneracy, which kills empires.

Historic.


.


Proverbs 14:34
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.


"Glory follows virtue as if it were its shadow."
- Marcus Tullius Cicero, Roman Statesman


To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it.
- Martin Luther King, Jr.


"There are only two races in the world, the decent and the indecent."
Victor Frankl - Nazi Holocaust survivor


"Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil."
- Thomas Mann


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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
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