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Israel did not win the war on Gaza (Read 24488 times)
Sir Grappler Truth Teller
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #300 - Dec 19th, 2023 at 1:40pm
 
Jasin wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 12:06am:
The Cronulla Riots proved Aussies don't need Arab-Moslem consent.
I mean, what's a little 'biffo' Aussie style with some beer thrown in?
The Arab-Moslems on the other hand, needed Police, Political and Media protection.
Their need for Police was like a craving for Pork.


Missed a golden opportunity when they were gang-banging their way in convoys gangstah style down King George's Road to get to Cronulla and the bikies etc were lining up with chains etc.... one hyperbaric and a little collateral damage would have done the trick... pigs did a conciliatory instead of a KristallNacht on them ... and then blamed the Others!!  Now after all these years the history is being changed there as well - they didn't assault two lifesavers after harassing women on the beach ....  Nah... it this keeps up they'll run out of halos for ethnics including Aborigines...

Who in his/her right mind would want to live in El Cidney, especially Bankistan, Lidcomecca and environs?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #301 - Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:30pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1621916534/221#221 date=1623227354]Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Tibet was culturally backward and poverty stricken  in 1950, even more so than China itself. Like the vast poverty-stricken Indian hordes today.   
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #302 - Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:34pm
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 1:32pm:
Israeli government in exile always said it was there..... now they've taken back the farm...
 

Your unshakable delusion; the Balfour Declaration doesn't mean a 'government in exile' existed, it means an ideology existed. 

Quote:
"Olive trees, date palms, and pine - millions of trees, most planted by humans, adorn the landscapes of Israel. But it wasn't always like that. Since 1901, the Jewish National Fund-USA (JNF) what you could call Israel's Forestry service - planted over 250 million trees throughout the country."

Wait one - 1901??    Cool

"The persistence of conflict in Syria, Iraq, and Yemen remains one of the main drivers of poverty regionally. In Syria, after five years of civil war it is estimated that 80 percent of the population lives in poverty, and life expectancy has been cut by 20 years."    Cool

Well - buggar me.


Yes, Muslims  do fight one another, the fools; but UN res 242 remains to be implemented, to achieve peace in the ME. The Muslims are learning, S Arabia and Iran  have kissed and made up...
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #303 - Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:35pm
 
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Setanta
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #304 - Dec 19th, 2023 at 6:39pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1621916534/221#221 date=1623227354]Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Tibet was culturally backward and poverty stricken  in 1950, even more so than China itself. Like the vast poverty-stricken Indian hordes today.   


Ah I see, China is just helping them out eh? Yellow man's burden.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #305 - Dec 20th, 2023 at 12:00pm
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #306 - Dec 20th, 2023 at 12:13pm
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 6:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1621916534/221#221 date=1623227354]Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Tibet was culturally backward and poverty stricken  in 1950, even more so than China itself. Like the vast poverty-stricken Indian hordes today.   


Ah I see, China is just helping them out eh? Yellow man's burden.


Correct, considering the then recently destroyed  Qing dynasty ruled Tibet, as an autonomous district. 

Of course the CCP is angered by the 'century of humiliation' (at the hands of foreigners) and wants to reinstate China's borders.

And  certainly Tibet's standard of living has soared in the past 40 years, under CCP administation.

Unlike comparable states in India.





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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #307 - Dec 20th, 2023 at 12:13pm
 
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Setanta
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #308 - Dec 20th, 2023 at 7:30pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 6:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1621916534/221#221 date=1623227354]Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Tibet was culturally backward and poverty stricken  in 1950, even more so than China itself. Like the vast poverty-stricken Indian hordes today.   


Ah I see, China is just helping them out eh? Yellow man's burden.


Correct, considering the then recently destroyed  Qing dynasty ruled Tibet, as an autonomous district. 

Of course the CCP is angered by the 'century of humiliation' (at the hands of foreigners) and wants to reinstate China's borders.

And  certainly Tibet's standard of living has soared in the past 40 years, under CCP administation.

Unlike comparable states in India.


I see. Are you suggesting Britain take administration of India once more?
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Frank
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #309 - Dec 21st, 2023 at 10:36am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:34pm:
Yes, Muslims  do fight one another, the fools; but UN res 242 remains to be implemented, to achieve peace in the ME. The Muslims are learning, S Arabia and Iran  have kissed and made up...

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the UN Charter.[1] The resolution was sponsored by British ambassador Lord Caradon and was one of five drafts under consideration.[2]

The preamble refers to the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security".[3]

Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."[4]

Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Lebanon entered into consultations with the UN Special representative over the implementation of 242.[5] After denouncing it in 1967, Syria "conditionally" accepted the resolution in March 1972. Syria formally accepted[6] UN Security Council Resolution 338, the cease-fire at the end of the Yom Kippur War (in 1973), which embraced Resolution 242.[7]

On 1 May 1968, the Israeli ambassador to the UN expressed Israel's position to the Security Council: "My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."

Resolution 242 is one of the most widely affirmed resolutions on the Arab–Israeli conflict and formed the basis for later negotiations between the parties. These led to peace treaties between Israel and Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994), as well as the 1993 and 1995 agreements with the Palestinians.




There are two footings to this resolution and the termination of all belligenence is the FIRST foot to be put forward, NOT the withdrawal from disputed territories.

History shows that when withdrawal is done first, as in Gaza in 2005, termination of belligerence by Muslims does not follow.

So Muslims prevent the full implementation of this resolution and peace generally. As they said in the Khartoum Declaration, "main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country."
Hamas, Hizb'allah, Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, ISIS etc are still operating under these three principles. There can be no peace with such people and Israel would be suicidal nuts to surrender to them.

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #310 - Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:17pm
 
Setanta wrote on Dec 20th, 2023 at 7:30pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 20th, 2023 at 12:13pm:
Setanta wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 6:39pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:30pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 18th, 2023 at 4:44pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
[quote author=AusbetterWorld link=1621916534/221#221 date=1623227354]Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Tibet was culturally backward and poverty stricken  in 1950, even more so than China itself. Like the vast poverty-stricken Indian hordes today.   


Ah I see, China is just helping them out eh? Yellow man's burden.


Correct, considering the then recently destroyed  Qing dynasty ruled Tibet, as an autonomous district. 

Of course the CCP is angered by the 'century of humiliation' (at the hands of foreigners) and wants to reinstate China's borders.

And  certainly Tibet's standard of living has soared in the past 40 years, under CCP administation.

Unlike comparable states in India.


I see. Are you suggesting Britain take administration of India once more?


No, I'm suggesting chaos followed the withdrawal of Britain....everywhere;  an educative program should have been enacted to maintain India's borders, Gandhi was already a spokesman for such religious enlightenement as necssary,  BEFORE UK withdrawal.
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #311 - Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:21pm
 
I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

Winston Churchill
To the Peel Commission on a Jewish Homeland in Palestine, 1937.
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #312 - Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:48pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 21st, 2023 at 10:36am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Dec 19th, 2023 at 5:34pm:
Yes, Muslims  do fight one another, the fools; but UN res 242 remains to be implemented, to achieve peace in the ME. The Muslims are learning, S Arabia and Iran  have kissed and made up...

United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 (S/RES/242) was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the UN Charter.[1] The resolution was sponsored by British ambassador Lord Caradon and was one of five drafts under consideration.[2]

The preamble refers to the "inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in the Middle East in which every State in the area can live in security".[3]

Operative Paragraph One "Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

(i) Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force."[4]


But already 2 points of confusion arise:

1. in (i), "...withdrawal from territories..." should have read "withdrawal from THE territories..."

2. Palestine had not yet been formally established as a state.

Quote:
Egypt, Jordan, Israel and Lebanon entered into consultations with the UN Special representative over the implementation of 242.[5] After denouncing it in 1967, Syria "conditionally" accepted the resolution in March 1972. Syria formally accepted[6] UN Security Council Resolution 338, the cease-fire at the end of the Yom Kippur War (in 1973), which embraced Resolution 242.[7]


Yes, due the points I noted above, the UN(SC)  failed to establish the  Palestinian state envisioned since 1947. Meanwhile, Muslims have been  dragged kicking and screaming into acceptance of Israel,  by endless defeats in war, as in the Yom Kippur war mentioned.   

Quote:
On 1 May 1968, the Israeli ambassador to the UN expressed Israel's position to the Security Council: "My government has indicated its acceptance of the Security Council resolution for the promotion of agreement on the establishment of a just and lasting peace. I am also authorized to reaffirm that we are willing to seek agreement with each Arab State on all matters included in that resolution."


Note the highlighted - weazel words from the ambassador. The UNSC should have said; here is the new Palestinian state, and we will gurantee the security of both, as required by UN res. 242.  Fullstop.

Israeli fundamentalists don't want a Palestinian state , as shown by their continuous encroachment in the WB; the confusion I mentiuoned above allow them to eternally avoid settlement of the issues identified by UN res 242.   

Quote:
Resolution 242 is one of the most widely affirmed resolutions on the Arab–Israeli conflict and formed the basis for later negotiations between the parties. These led to peace treaties between Israel and Egypt (1979) and Jordan (1994), as well as the 1993 and 1995 agreements with the Palestinians.


And still no Palestine...what went wrong (.....see above, sneaky Zionists ensuring the status quo)

Quote:
There are two footings to this resolution and the termination of all belligenence is the FIRST foot to be put forward, NOT the withdrawal from disputed territories.


Oh - is that so? 

Quote:
History shows that when withdrawal is done first, as in Gaza in 2005, termination of belligerence by Muslims does not follow.


That was a cynical move by Sharon; he knew fundamentlist Muslims would take power in Gaza.

Quote:
So Muslims prevent the full implementation of this resolution and peace generally. As they said in the Khartoum Declaration, "main principles by which the Arab States abide, namely, no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with it, and insistence on the rights of the Palestinian people in their own country."
Hamas, Hizb'allah, Muslim Brotherhood, Iran, ISIS etc are still operating under these three principles. There can be no peace with such people and Israel would be suicidal nuts to surrender to them.


PM Rabin paid with his life for thinking Israel could cede the WB to a Palestinian state; fundamentalists on both sides are the problem. 
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #313 - Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:48pm
 
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #314 - Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:53pm
 
Frank wrote on Dec 22nd, 2023 at 12:21pm:
I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.

Winston Churchill
To the Peel Commission on a Jewish Homeland in Palestine, 1937.


Churchill didn't forsee Dubai or Doha  (or possibly didn't even see the Erdine Ottoman Selimiye Mosque); even London looks old beside them.
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