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Israel did not win the war on Gaza (Read 24452 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #240 - Oct 6th, 2023 at 10:22am
 
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freediver
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #241 - Oct 6th, 2023 at 10:34am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


Is this why the CCP stooges were carrying on recently with some gibberish about the Israeli constitution not defining the borders?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #242 - Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:39pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Yes, it's all about ideology, in the post 1945 era.

But before 1945, conquest of lands by force was considered as 'reality';  eg the British empire in India et al, and the Qing empire in east Asia.
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« Last Edit: Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:44pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #243 - Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:43pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2023 at 10:34am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


Is this why the CCP stooges were carrying on recently with some gibberish about the Israeli constitution not defining the borders?


No.

Borders were defined by the dominant empire, before 1945. 

After 1945, "the conquest of territory by force is admissible" - except the UN, at this early stage of the development of international law, is still unable to defend its rulings re borders.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #244 - Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:45pm
 
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freediver
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #245 - Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:23pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2023 at 10:34am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


Is this why the CCP stooges were carrying on recently with some gibberish about the Israeli constitution not defining the borders?


No.

Borders were defined by the dominant empire, before 1945. 

After 1945, "the conquest of territory by force is admissible" - except the UN, at this early stage of the development of international law, is still unable to defend its rulings re borders.


Israel's borders were defined after 1945.
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Karnal
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #246 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 2:02am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


No, dear. Such conquest was "illegal" in 1950, when Mao went in.

There goes your entire rules-based global order in one fell swoop.

If you claim to support that, you can't logically support this. The Chows did not colonise Tibet 300 years ago, they merely chucked out its ruler. Tibet was left intact until the CCP invaded.

If you continue to support the occupation of Tibet, a totally different culture, language and people to the Middle Kingdom, you can never claim the moral high ground.

I'm torn on Taiwan - there, I can see a rationale, even if I respect the right to self determination. But not Tibet. China has utterly decimated the place and the people. There is no justification, and you know it.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #247 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 12:14pm
 
freediver wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 3:23pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 9th, 2023 at 1:43pm:
freediver wrote on Oct 6th, 2023 at 10:34am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


Is this why the CCP stooges were carrying on recently with some gibberish about the Israeli constitution not defining the borders?


No.

Borders were defined by the dominant empire, before 1945. 

After 1945, "the conquest of territory by force is admissible" - except the UN, at this early stage of the development of international law, is still unable to defend its rulings re borders.


Israel's borders were defined after 1945.


So why is  Israel occupying territory not defined as Israel?
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #248 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 12:50pm
 
Karnal wrote on Oct 10th, 2023 at 2:02am:
thegreatdivide wrote on Oct 5th, 2023 at 9:29pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


Er...the Chinese conquered Tibet 300 years ago, before such conquest was illegal; and after  the collapse of the Qing dynasty in 1912, the following applied  (wiki) ;

"The Provisional Constitution of the Republic of China adopted in 1912 specifically established frontier regions of the new republic, including Tibet, as integral parts of the state"

Israel of course ceased to exist 2000 years ago...until the partition of Palestine by the UN in 1947.  Spot the difference?


No, dear. Such conquest was "illegal" in 1950, when Mao went in.

There goes your entire rules-based global order in one fell swoop.


There is no rules-based global order - which would require a UNSC without access to the veto power, to facilitate resolution of disputes between nations without resort to war. 

Quote:
If you claim to support that, you can't logically support this. The Chows did not colonise Tibet 300 years ago, they merely chucked out its ruler. Tibet was left intact until the CCP invaded.


"merely chucked out its ruler".....: 

(wiki)

"Tibet under Qing rule refers to the Qing dynasty's rule over Tibet from 1720 to 1912. The Qing rulers incorporated Tibet into the empire along with other Inner Asia territories, although the actual extent of the Qing dynasty's control over Tibet during this period has been the subject of political debate.

Subject to debate.....

Quote:
If you continue to support the occupation of Tibet, a totally different culture, language and people to the Middle Kingdom, you can never claim the moral high ground.

I'm torn on Taiwan - there, I can see a rationale, even if I respect the right to self determination. But not Tibet. China has utterly decimated the place and the people. There is no justification, and you know it.


Note the complications resulting from a change in the ideology of Chinese governance, in 1949, not recognized by the UN until 1971 (just before Nixon's visit to China) :

(wiki) 

"Three UN resolutions of 1959, 1961, and 1965 condemned human rights violation in Tibet. These resolutions were passed at a time when the PRC was not permitted to become a member and of course was not allowed to present its singular version of events in the region (however, the Republic of China on Taiwan, which the PRC also claims sovereignty over, was a member of the UN at the time, and it equally claimed sovereignty over Tibet and opposed Tibetan self-determination). Professor and sinologist A. Tom Grunfeld called the resolutions impractical and justified the PRC in ignoring them".
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #249 - Oct 10th, 2023 at 12:50pm
 
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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #250 - Oct 13th, 2023 at 9:52pm
 
Sorry I haven't been around. You see, I won a prize - a luxury Shock N Awe weekend retreat at the Al Mathaf Hotel resort on Gaza Beach.

https://www.facebook.com/mathaf.hotel/

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #251 - Nov 7th, 2023 at 9:32am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


It's also about primitive survival and competitive instincts...the human condition, in fact.

It's time for effective international law, to defend universal well-being and security.
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Frank
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #252 - Nov 7th, 2023 at 10:51am
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Nov 7th, 2023 at 9:32am:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:35pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Jun 9th, 2021 at 6:29pm:
Israel should never have been recreated in Arab lands, without the consent of the Arabs.

Aww... Like the Chinese regime and Tibet.

It's all about ideology... But the Chinese don't have a 'Talmud' on Tibet... Or do they?


It's also about primitive survival and competitive instincts...the human condition, in fact.

It's time for effective international law, to defend universal well-being and security. 



You are welcome to effectively stick the UN up yes Khyber, silly parrot.


The UN General Assembly adopted an Arab-drafted resolution today calling for a “humanitarian truce” in Gaza, after rejecting a Canadian amendment that would have condemned the Oct. 7 terrorist attacks by Hamas and demanded immediate release of hostages taken by Hamas.

Israel’s U.N. Ambassador Gilad Erdan called it “a day that will go down in infamy.”

The resolution was adopted by a vote of 120 to 14 with 45 abstentions.

Outrageously, the resolution failed to condemn Hamas for its October 7th massacre of 1400 Israelis, or for its abduction of more than 200 Israelis including children and babies, or even to mention the word Hamas.

The resolution also failed to recognize Israel’s right to defend itself and its citizens against terrorism.



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Frank
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #253 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 10:02am
 
Israel will win. The West is over
Support for Hamas originates in the heart of darkness of Western consciousness, There are more fans of Hamas in the West than in Gaza.

Giulio Meotti


What is this strange evil that afflicts the West and for which the war in Gaza is both a pretext and a revelation? Self-hatred? Fascination with collective suicide?
Hamas is an Islamo-Nazi sect that intended to destroy Israel and its people before attacking the West when the time comes. But it found million of helpers among Western people. Sorcerers' apprentices, new converts and useful idiots...

Their brainwashing is effective. Newsweek polls say that among young Americans, 48 percent are with Hamas. More than half – 51 percent – believe that the October 7 pogrom in which 1,400 Israelis were massacred was somehow justified. If we did the same survey in Europe we would get the same results.

Of 67 million "Generation Z" Americans (those born after 1996), 52 percent want racial reparations for blacks, 60 percent believe systemic racism is "widespread" in society, 51 percent that the "gender binary" (male and female) is "obsolete", 41 percent are in favor of censoring "hate speech" (unless it encourages destroying Israel), 66 percent are in favor of silencing speakers they consider "offensive" and 61 percent have positive views of socialism.

This is where support for Hamas originates: in the heart of darkness of Western consciousness in full decadence.

Meanwhile, from Al Azhar in Cairo - the "Vatican of Islam" - to the International Union of Muslim Scholars in Doha, the large Islamic organizations launch their fatwa against Israel: "There are no Israeli civilians, they are all targets". And we talk about the institutions with which the West has a dialogue and with which the Vatican signed the document on "Human Brotherhood".

On the London Review of Books - one of the most renowned literary magazines in the world - hundreds of writers attack... Israel. The intellectual James Lindsay in Le Point explains: “There is an intellectual complicity between them and they share the same objective: to inflict maximum damage on the West and Western values. I'm not saying that Hamas shares all the values of the North American and European left, but it uses the woke left to advance its agenda. The United States and Canada, due to woke infiltration at all levels, are experiencing a cultural revolution like that experienced by China in the 1960s."

Fortunately, positive news is also arriving from America, such as the new organization Catholics against anti-Semitism.

A demagogic left, pacifist squares, corrupt universities and degenerated media meanwhile are playing with matches. And for the electoral reasons that we know, now we have this great left that has in its eyes, instead of stars, only veils, crescents, minarets.

An example of this sick left are the Belgian socialist leaders André Flahaut and Jean-Pascal Labille, who have just compared Israel to Nazism. André Flahaut is the former Minister of Defense and former President of the Chamber, among others, today a federal deputy of the Socialist Party. Jean-Pascal Labille, a former federal minister, shared a drawing allegedly showing Israeli soldiers firing on what represents Gaza, surrounded by a barrier on which a swastika appears in a Star of David.

“Since the end of the Cold War we have found ourselves, with the exception of the period following September 11, in a sort of end-of-history and permanent carnival atmosphere” American scholar Walter Russell Mead tells Le Figaro. “We were excited by the idea of all the possibilities, of a 'win-win' world. Debt also seemed insignificant as interest rates were at zero. We were living in an illusion. But the world does not allow this for a long time. Today we return to earth, we will see how quickly."

Israel is fighting for its survival.

The question is whether Western civilization understands that this is a turning point and really wants to be saved, since its weak and nihilisticleaders seem to have concluded that it is inherently evil and not worth fighting for.

This week, Israeli President Isaac Herzog issued a warning to Europeans in an interview with Die Welt. “You have to understand: if Israel no longer exists, Europe will be next.”

Israel will win this battle – sadly, at a very high cost – because it is determined to survive. But there are more fans of Hamas and Jihad in the West than in Gaza. The barriers of Western civilization, such as Israel's southern border, have to be defended and we can rely only on Israel's determination to do so.

We in the West are in grave danger.
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John Smith
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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #254 - Nov 11th, 2023 at 10:35am
 
That guy is a simpleton like you Frank.





Supporting the Palestinian people is not supporting Hamas. Only an absolute cretin would claim otherwise.
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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