Australian Politics Forum - Israel did not win the war on Gaza

Baronvonrort

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #165 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:30pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:23pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 5:47pm:

More freedom than in any other middle eastern country.

Which middle eastern countries subject their citizens to widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care, the way Israel does to its non-Jewish population?

Iran and Saudi Arabia for starters, under Islamic apartheid non muslims don't have rights compared to muslims.

We could look at Pakistan as well stuff all rights there for minorities Pakistan was crated around the same time as Israel under similar circumstances.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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freediver Gold Member Offline www.ozpolitic.com Posts: 50056 At my desk.	Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza Reply #166 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:31pm Quote: Which middle eastern countries subject their citizens to widespread discrimination Duh, all of them. Except Israel. The apologists tell us how wonderfully progressive it is for the Saudis to let women drive.
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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #167 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:34pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:10pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:17pm:

You do not know what slavery is.

Slaves have no freedom.

What freedoms do the Palestinians have?

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

What part of,

although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care

do you not understand?

Hams is the government in Gaza they're Islamist, What right s if any do christians have in Gaza under Islamic apartheid?

How many are actually there?

Quote:

Islamic apartheid is quite common look at Saudi Arabia, Iran,
Pakistan the Taliban in Afghanistan or Al Shaabab in Somalia or even Boko Haram in Nigeria and tell us what rights if any minorities have in any of those countries.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria etc are not middle eastern nations so that's another discussion.

The fact remains: non-Jews in Israel are discriminated against in all walks of life.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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freediver

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #168 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:35pm

Quote:

Those are the facts. How can you call that not rational?

Because of what you said. It is irrational, emotional hyperbole to argue that a country is not democratic because you disagree with who the citizens vote for. It is your argument that is essentially undemocratic.

Basically, you don't know what democracy is. Nor do you appear to care. You mince your words like a drugged up hippy.

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #169 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:42pm

freediver wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:31pm:

Quote:

Which middle eastern countries subject their citizens to widespread discrimination

Duh, all of them.

Look at Iran:

(New York Jewish Week via JTA) — Contrary to a commonly held belief, Jews living in Iran find it easier to practice their religion today than they did prior to the Islamic Revolution of 1979, according to a longtime leader of the Jewish community in Tehran.

https://www.jta.org/2021/03/05/global/peaceful-existence-jews-in-iran-freely-obs...

Quote:

Except Israel.

No, see above from amnesty.org and others.

Quote:

The apologists tell us how wonderfully progressive it is for the Saudis to let women drive

Does the Saudi govt. deny rights of citizenship, housing, healthcare etc to its citizens the way Israel does?

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #170 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:46pm

freediver wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Those are the facts. How can you call that not rational?

Because of what you said. It is irrational, emotional hyperbole to argue that a country is not democratic because you disagree with who the citizens vote for. It is your argument that is essentially undemocratic.

Basically, you don't know what democracy is. Nor do you appear to care. You mince your words like a drugged up hippy.

You were using the word democracy the way we in the West understand it, i.e. separation of state and religion.

Separation of state and religion does not exist in Israel therefore it cannot be called a liberal democracy like you called it.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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rhino

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #171 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:53pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:42pm:

Does the Saudi govt. deny rights of citizenship, housing, healthcare etc to its citizens the way Israel does?

Saudi Arabia routinely executes rape victims and people suspected of witchcraft. Criticising the Government in any form will land them a hefty jail term. They also cut the clits out of their female children and have a legal system which makes women the property of men. It is a country which has one of the worst record of human rights abuses on the planet, they kidnapped an unsympathetic journalist and dismembered him while he was alive for criticising the Saudi regime.

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Frank

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #172 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:59pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:17pm:

You do not know what slavery is.

Slaves have no freedom.

What freedoms do the Palestinians have?

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

What part of,

although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care

do you not understand?

The bit where they are lobbing rockets at Israeli civilians.

You would be an idiot if you were not cautious about a demographic in your midsts. If anything, the Israelis are far too nice and accommodating. Hamas isn't giving Israelis any warnings about their rocket attacks. Israel warns the Pallos before hitting BACK because they know that the duplicitous, cowardly muslim jihadi fckheads are hiding among civilians.

Barbarian jihadi fcckheads versus humane Jews. You are with the fcckheads, I am with Israel.

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Frank

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #173 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:04pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:46pm:

freediver wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:35pm:

Quote:

Those are the facts. How can you call that not rational?

Because of what you said. It is irrational, emotional hyperbole to argue that a country is not democratic because you disagree with who the citizens vote for. It is your argument that is essentially undemocratic.

Basically, you don't know what democracy is. Nor do you appear to care. You mince your words like a drugged up hippy.

You were using the word democracy the way we in the West understand it, i.e. separation of state and religion.

Separation of state and religion does not exist in Israel therefore it cannot be called a liberal democracy like you called it.

BS. Israel does not have a state religion.

What's the religion of an atheist Jew? Arab? Japanese? Aborigine? Red Indian? Persian? Maori?

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #174 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:10pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:17pm:

You do not know what slavery is.

Slaves have no freedom.

What freedoms do the Palestinians have?

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

What part of,

although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care

do you not understand?

Hams is the government in Gaza they're Islamist, What right s if any do christians have in Gaza under Islamic apartheid?

How many are actually there?

Quote:

Islamic apartheid is quite common look at Saudi Arabia, Iran,
Pakistan the Taliban in Afghanistan or Al Shaabab in Somalia or even Boko Haram in Nigeria and tell us what rights if any minorities have in any of those countries.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria etc are not middle eastern nations so that's another discussion.

The fact remains: non-Jews in Israel are discriminated against in all walks of life.

There are quite a few christians in Palestine which is under sharia law which is Islamic apartheid for non muslims.

Quote:

Basic Law

The Basic Law is based loosely on Shari'a:

According to Article 4:

Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic Shari'a shall be the main source of legislation.
Arabic shall be the official language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_law

Non muslims be it christians or atheists live under Islamic apartheid in Palestine.

Those who hate the jews are rather silent about non muslims in Palestine who live under Islamic apartheid.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #175 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm

rhino wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:53pm:

Saudi Arabia routinely executes rape victims and people suspected of witchcraft. Criticising the Government in any form will land them a hefty jail term. They also cut the clits out of their female children

AFAIK, FGM is not condoned anywhere in the Koran so the practice cannot be considered Islamist. It's a sub-Saharan practice.

Quote:

and have a legal system which makes women the property of men.

How is that any different to the way women are treated under orthodox Judaism?

Quote:

It is a country which has one of the worst record of human rights abuses on the planet

Not as bad as Israel's record.

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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wombatwoody

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #176 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:11pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:10pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:17pm:

You do not know what slavery is.

Slaves have no freedom.

What freedoms do the Palestinians have?

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

What part of,

although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care

do you not understand?

Hams is the government in Gaza they're Islamist, What right s if any do christians have in Gaza under Islamic apartheid?

How many are actually there?

Quote:

Islamic apartheid is quite common look at Saudi Arabia, Iran,
Pakistan the Taliban in Afghanistan or Al Shaabab in Somalia or even Boko Haram in Nigeria and tell us what rights if any minorities have in any of those countries.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria etc are not middle eastern nations so that's another discussion.

The fact remains: non-Jews in Israel are discriminated against in all walks of life.

There are quite a few christians in Palestine which is under sharia law which is Islamic apartheid for non muslims.

Quote:

Basic Law

The Basic Law is based loosely on Shari'a:

According to Article 4:

Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic Shari'a shall be the main source of legislation.
Arabic shall be the official language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_law

Non muslims be it christians or atheists live under Islamic apartheid in Palestine.

Those who hate the jews are rather silent about non muslims in Palestine who live under Islamic apartheid.

Palestine’s Christian population is dwindling at an alarming rate. The world’s most ancient Christian community is moving elsewhere. And the reason for this is Israel.

[...]

The correlation between the shrinking Christian population in Palestine, and the Israeli occupation and apartheid should be unmistakable, as it is obvious to Palestine’s Christian and Muslim population alike.

A study conducted by Dar al-Kalima University in the West Bank town of Beit Jala and published in December 2017, interviewed nearly 1,000 Palestinians, half of them Christian and the other half Muslim. One of the main goals of the research was to understand the reason behind the depleting Christian population in Palestine.

The study concluded that “the pressure of Israeli occupation, ongoing constraints, discriminatory policies, arbitrary arrests, confiscation of lands added to the general sense of hopelessness among Palestinian Christians,” who are finding themselves in “a despairing situation where they can no longer perceive a future for their offspring or for themselves”.

Unfounded claims that Palestinian Christians are leaving because of religious tensions between them and their Muslim brethren are, therefore, irrelevant.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/10/31/the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinian-chri...

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We are benefiting from ... the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq.

Benjamin Netanyahu, quoted in Ma’ariv, 16 April 2008

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rhino

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #177 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:14pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:53pm:

Saudi Arabia routinely executes rape victims and people suspected of witchcraft. Criticising the Government in any form will land them a hefty jail term. They also cut the clits out of their female children

AFAIK, FGM is not condoned anywhere in the Koran so the practice cannot be considered Islamist. It's a sub-Saharan practice.

Is it state condoned in Israel as in Saudi?

Quote:

and have a legal system which makes women the property of men.

Quote:

How is that any different to the way women are treated under orthodox Judaism?

you have a lot to learn.

Quote:

It is a country which has one of the worst record of human rights abuses on the planet

Quote:

Not as bad as Israel's record.

Only an idiot would claim that.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #178 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:23pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm:

rhino wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:53pm:

Saudi Arabia routinely executes rape victims and people suspected of witchcraft. Criticising the Government in any form will land them a hefty jail term. They also cut the clits out of their female children

AFAIK, FGM is not condoned anywhere in the Koran so the practice cannot be considered Islamist. It's a sub-Saharan practice.

FGM is prescribed in Islam you're showing your ignorance here.

Quote:

Circumcision of girls and some doctors’ criticism thereof

Question
Nowadays we hear that many doctors denounce the circumcision of girls, and say that it harms them physically and psychologically, and that circumcision is an inherited custom that has no basis is Islam .

Answer
Praise be to Allah.

Firstly:

Circumcision is not an inherited custom as some people claim, rather it is prescribed in Islam and the scholars are unanimously agreed that it is prescribed. Not a single Muslim scholar – as far as we know – has said that circumcision is not prescribed.

Their evidence is to be found in the saheeh ahaadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), which prove that it is prescribed, for example:

The hadeeth narrated by al-Bukhaari (5889) and Muslim (257) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him), that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "The fitrah is five things – or five things are part of the fitrah – circumcision, shaving the pubes, cutting the nails, plucking the armpit hairs, and trimming the moustache."

This hadeeth includes circumcision of both males and females.

Muslim (349) narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “When a man sits between the four parts (arms and legs of his wife) and the two circumcised parts meet, then ghusl is obligatory.”

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) mentioned the two circumcised parts, i.e., the circumcised part of the husband and the circumcised part of the wife, which indicates that a woman may be circumcised just like a man.

More here- https://islamqa.info/en/answers/60314/circumcision-of-girls-and-some-doctors-cri...

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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Baronvonrort

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Re: Israel did not win the war on Gaza
Reply #179 - Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:31pm

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:11pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 10:06pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:34pm:

Baronvonrort wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 9:10pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 8:57pm:

Frank wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:

freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:17pm:

You do not know what slavery is.

Slaves have no freedom.

What freedoms do the Palestinians have?

Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

What part of,

although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care

do you not understand?

Hams is the government in Gaza they're Islamist, What right s if any do christians have in Gaza under Islamic apartheid?

How many are actually there?

Quote:

Islamic apartheid is quite common look at Saudi Arabia, Iran,
Pakistan the Taliban in Afghanistan or Al Shaabab in Somalia or even Boko Haram in Nigeria and tell us what rights if any minorities have in any of those countries.

Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria etc are not middle eastern nations so that's another discussion.

The fact remains: non-Jews in Israel are discriminated against in all walks of life.

There are quite a few christians in Palestine which is under sharia law which is Islamic apartheid for non muslims.

Quote:

Basic Law

The Basic Law is based loosely on Shari'a:

According to Article 4:

Islam is the official religion in Palestine. Respect and sanctity of all other heavenly religions shall be maintained.
The principles of Islamic Shari'a shall be the main source of legislation.
Arabic shall be the official language

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_law

Non muslims be it christians or atheists live under Islamic apartheid in Palestine.

Those who hate the jews are rather silent about non muslims in Palestine who live under Islamic apartheid.

Palestine’s Christian population is dwindling at an alarming rate. The world’s most ancient Christian community is moving elsewhere. And the reason for this is Israel.

[...]

Unfounded claims that Palestinian Christians are leaving because of religious tensions between them and their Muslim brethren are, therefore, irrelevant.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/10/31/the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestinian-chri...

Got anything better than an article from a muslim blaming the jews for everything while sidestepping the fact christians and atheists live under Islamic apartheid in Palestine which everyone knows is under the principles of sharia law for legislation?

The christians would be much better off under Israeli rule than any type of sharia law.

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Leftists and the Ayatollahs have a lot in common when it comes to criticism of Islam, they don't tolerate it.

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