freediver wrote on Jun 1^st, 2021 at 9:06pm:


Actually, you missed the point. The slaveowner argument went like this: 'Look at these blacks. They're well-fed, fit, healthy and strong. They're far better off than they were in their deepest darkest Africa.'

Yes, they were well-fed, fit, healthy and strong. But that didn't change the fact that they were slaves and had no freedom.

That's the same as what you're saying.

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What freedom?

'Palestinians make up 20% of Israel’s population and although their rights to political participation and representation are recognized by Israeli and international law, in practice they face widespread discrimination, including in terms of citizenship, housing, education and health care.'

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/09/israel-discriminatory-measures-un...

'There are currently more than 65 Israeli laws that discriminate against Palestinian citizens in Israel and Palestinian residents of the Occupied Palestinian Territories, according to Adalah, The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel.'

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/7/19/five-ways-israeli-law-discriminates-aga...

'Israel still applies more than 50 laws that privilege Jews over Arabs. For example, the 1950 Law of Return grants automatic citizenship rights to Jews from anywhere in the world upon request, while denying that same right to Palestinians ... As many as 45 Palestinian villages in Israel, many of which pre-date the founding of the state, are not recognized by the Israeli government, and are not listed on maps and receive no services (water, electricity, sanitation, roads, etc.) from the government. More than 75,000 Palestinians live in these unrecognized villages. Meanwhile, hundreds of new Jewish communities have been established on lands confiscated from Palestinians.'

https://imeu.org/article/are-palestinian-and-jewish-citizens-of-israel-treated-e...

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Israel's not a democracy, far from it. The religious parties, all orthodox, have disproportionate influence over elections effectively leaving secular Israelis no say at all in the process. These are not tiny fringe groups. They have a great deal of influence on the Israeli government, especially the Likud governments. The members of Gush Emunim constitute a significant percentage of the elite units of the Israeli army.

I suggest you read some Norman Zucker:

"One of the major successes of theopolitics has been the institutionalization of the Orthodox rabbinate within the state. The Orthodox rabbinate in Israel has been established as a monopoly - neither Reform nor Conservative rabbinic ordinations are recognized - and it is, in part, supported by the state. This monopoly and state support, in conjunction with the coercive tactics of the religious parties in the Knesset, has given the Orthodox rabbinate a good deal of power. It uses this power to further the observance of Orthodox norms, often violating the civil rights of the nonobservant Israeli ... Orthodox Judaism has become firmly established in Israel's armed forces."

Norman L. Zucker, The Coming Crisis in Israel: Private Faith and Public Policy

And:

'Fundamentalist rabbis have approved murder, attacks on Arabs, illegal land seizures and racist segregation, and have ignored the murder of a prime minister...

'No rabbi has been tried for an illegal act by a civilian or soldier because of his teachings. After all, they are only tutors, and then "permission has been granted." In "properly functioning" states like Saudi Arabia or Egypt it has long been understood that the responsibility of a religious figure is no less than that of a terrorist. They arrest and imprison, exile or silence in different ways the preachers who raised generations of murderous zealots. Turkey removes from the military anyone who expresses excessive religious fervor.

'In Israel, on the other hand, former chief military rabbi Avihai Rontzki initiated a meeting of intelligence soldiers with Rabbi Lior, the backbone of "The King's Torah." The following was said about the Israel Defense Forces' ethics code: "When there is a conflict between orders based on the ethics code and a halakhic instruction, of course one must follow halakha" - Jewish law. It's not incitement that's dangerous, but rather its transformation into the accepted and central form of discourse.'

https://www.haaretz.com/1.5103500

You call that democracy?

wombatwoody wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 2:51am:




Israel's Declaration of Independence called for the establishment of a Jewish state with equality of social and political rights, irrespective of religion, race, or sex.[206]

The rights of citizens are guaranteed by a set of basic laws (Israel does not have a written constitution).[207] Although this set of laws does not explicitly include the term "right to equality", the Israeli Supreme Court has consistently interpreted "Basic Law: Human Dignity and Liberty"[208] and "Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation (1994)"[209] as guaranteeing equal rights for all Israeli citizens.[210]

The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs states that "Arab Israelis are citizens of Israel with equal rights" and states that "The only legal distinction between Arab and Jewish citizens is not one of rights, but rather of civic duty. Since Israel's establishment, Arab citizens have been exempted from compulsory service in the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)."[211] Druze and Circassians are drafted into the Israeli army, while other Arabs may serve voluntarily; however, only a very small number of Arabs choose to volunteer for the Israeli army[212]).

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 12:43pm:



Oh, so that's  why the 22 Arab countries do not have equality but privilege Muslims and many of them are racist and terrorist (13 million sq kms, 400 million people).


But you are worked up about one Jewish country (22 thousand sq km,  9 million people) that is ONE THIRD the size of Tasmania and which provides greater freedoms to its Arab citizens than the oppressive  Arab countries provide to their own. 
I guess it's easier for the lazy and stupid to criticise Israel for existing and defending itself than reforming the sea of 400 million Muslim Arabs around it.

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See, there you have described the bizarre stupidity of bunging the State of Israel where they did in 1948.

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You are confused Aussie. How did you get that from what I said?

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It's easy to miss the point when you make up stupid crap like Palestinians are slaves. Here's a tip: if you don't want your point to be lost, don't surround it by absurd lies.

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More freedom than in any other middle eastern country.

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That is not a rational argument. Seems you do not know what democracy is either.

I didn't know that democracy meant no stabbings.

Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 2^nd, 2021 at 6:17pm:

Yes, he gets quite 'confused' a lot.