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Western Culture (Read 94014 times)
thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #360 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 1:38pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 1:09pm:
This leads us to a second, deeper puzzle. Why open everything in the West to assault?
The culture that gave the world lifesaving advances in science, medicine and a free market that has raised billions of people around the world out of poverty and offered the greatest flowering of thought anywhere in the world is interrogated through a lens of the deepest hostility and simplicity.


Answered in my previous post. Every culture has contributed to the advance of science and technology at a particular time and place.

It's just that now,  with the planet's ecological limits being breached by humanity carrying on with 'business as usual', at a time when Western civilization  is in the 'driver's seat' , we have to change the Western-based  economic - and hence cultural - systems. 


If that's a "war on Western civilization", then bring it on, to save the planet.
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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #361 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 2:40pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 1:38pm:
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 1:09pm:
This leads us to a second, deeper puzzle. Why open everything in the West to assault?
The culture that gave the world lifesaving advances in science, medicine and a free market that has raised billions of people around the world out of poverty and offered the greatest flowering of thought anywhere in the world is interrogated through a lens of the deepest hostility and simplicity.


Answered in my previous post. Every culture has contributed to the advance of science and technology at a particular time and place.



Arrant nonsense. Bollocks.


Quote:
It's just that now,  with the planet's ecological limits being breached by humanity carrying on with 'business as usual', at a time when Western civilization  is in the 'driver's seat' , we have to change the Western-based  economic - and hence cultural - systems. 


Yeah, yeah, yeah - economic base, cultural superstructure, Marxism, CCP, common prosperity, MMT, blah, blah.

Quote:
If that's a "war on Western civilization", then bring it on, to save the planet.



“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191843730.001.0001/q-oro-...

There are far too many of you like that, and you ARE waging war on the West just as described by Murray.







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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #362 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 10:55pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 2:40pm:
Arrant nonsense. Bollocks.


Er, Islamic Cordoba in the 11th century, when London and Paris were pigsties? etc etc.

Quote:
Yeah, yeah, yeah - economic base, cultural superstructure, Marxism, CCP, common prosperity, MMT, blah, blah.


Actually MMT, and global communism will save the planet. All civilizations will be remembered in history books.   

Quote:
“A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within.


Who would wish to be a traitor to  global sustainable prosperity? Whereas your sick capitalism needs to play a much reduced role in maintaining global sustainable prosperity, being  confined to incentivizing individual effort, in markedly limited free markets.   

Quote:
An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”


Blimey, very poetic, but the poet hasn't the nous to stop and wonder why are all these enemies arising from within......

Quote:
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780191843730.001.0001/q-oro-...

There are far too many of you like that, and you ARE waging war on the West just as described by Murray.


"Sustainable capitalism" and ecology groups are sprouting like mushrooms all around the Western world, because they can see the writing on the wall.   







[/quote]
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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #363 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 11:03pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
"Sustainable capitalism" and ecology groups are sprouting like mushrooms all around the Western world, because they can see the writing on the wall.   




Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

But not in China, the biggest threat to planetary health, knowing what's good for them.

You and your masters are despicable frauds.





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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #364 - Apr 30th, 2022 at 11:18pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 11:03pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
"Sustainable capitalism" and ecology groups are sprouting like mushrooms all around the Western world, because they can see the writing on the wall.   




Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

But not in China, the biggest threat to planetary health, knowing what's good for them.


Unfortunately China isn't MMT-literate (yet), but it is already  the world's largest producer of renewable energy, and is deploying nuclear energy at an impressive rate. 

Quote:
You and your masters are despicable frauds.


I already told you I'm not a member of the CCP, but I remain impressed by the progress in China. 






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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #365 - May 4th, 2022 at 3:49pm
 
There are many ways to fracture a people. But one of the best is to destroy all the remaining ties that bind them. To persuade them that to the extent they have anything of their own, it is not very special, and in the final analysis, hardly worth preserving. This is a process that has gone on across the western world for over a generation: a remorseless, daily assault on everything that most of us were brought up to believe was good about ourselves.
Take our national heroes – the people who used to form the epicentre of our feelings of national pride. Twenty years ago, Winston Churchill easily won the BBC’s competition to find out who the nation thought to be the Greatest Briton. Today whenever the BBC runs a piece about Churchill it includes the ‘case for the prosecution’: a set of tendentious and fallacious arguments now frequently made against him. This has consequences. When the outburst of iconoclasm began in the summer of 2020 after the murder of George Floyd, Churchill’s statue was one of the first to be assaulted. Indeed it was attacked so often that the statue in Parliament Square was boxed up, and only got unboxed when the French President arrived in London for the day.
It isn’t just Churchill who gets this treatment. Almost everyone in our history does. Again and again, largely due to importing some of the worst ideas in modern American life, we are told that we need to scour our past and purge whatever fails to satisfy our current urges.
Two years ago the Mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, set up a Robespierrean ‘Commission for Diversity in the Public Realm’: a commission made up of people who all seem to share a wholly negative view of these islands, and one of whom was known for having once shouted at Her Majesty the Queen. And yet that commission is meant to decide what we are allowed to keep of our history. And not only what should come down, but what should go up in its place. Among the suggestions for more appropriate modern statuary are a memorial to the murdered teenager Stephen Lawrence, a tribute to the Windrush generation and a new National Museum of Slavery. Only last week it transpired that a London council is planning to rebrand William Gladstone Park, because the great prime minister’s family stands accused of benefiting from the slave trade. The front-runners for alternative names for the place include Diane Abbott Park.
Where once our national story was one of pride and heroism it has come to be looked at solely through the reductive, simplistic lens of racism, slavery and colonialism. Our civil servants and public appointees must demonstrate a commitment to ‘Diversity, Inclusion and Equity’ in order even to be allowed to work. Every political institution, including the House of Lords, is suffused with the same new dogma. Likewise every cultural institution, from the National Trust and Kew Gardens to the British Library, Tate and Globe theatre has decided to ‘decolonise’ – which means stripping us of our history or reframing it in an implacably negative light.
Anybody found guilty of living in American history is torn down in a similarly remorseless way, from Christopher Columbus to Theodore Roosevelt. Absolutely no one is safe. The Founding Fathers have been rewritten. A couple of generations back, few Americans may have known that Thomas Jefferson owned slaves. Today it is almost the only thing anyone knows about him. Again, this has consequences. Last autumn the statue of Jefferson that had stood in New York City Hall since 1833 was ignominiously removed, boxed up and wheeled out the back door. According to one council member Jefferson no longer represents US ‘values’.
It is hard to think of anyone from two centuries ago who would. But in the relentless war on everything to do with western history at least the tactics are now clear. Aristotle and Plato have been denounced for not having 2022’s views on race. Similarly all the Enlightenment philosophers, so that David Hume’s name has come off buildings in Scotland. The charges are always the same: having views not exactly in line with those of the 21st century, being complicit in the slave trade, being complicit in colonialism. Or just being alive while these things were going on. When the evidence isn’t there, the anti-western ‘scholars’ of our day have shown themselves perfectly willing simply to invent it.
What are the effects of this? Among much else, it is not remotely clear why societies which have such terrible pasts should ever rouse themselves to do anything in the present. Last year the US Ambassador to the United Nations used the occasion of the UN’s International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination to denounce America for its ‘original sin’. She talked about the killing of George Floyd and presented a recent shooting at a spa (which had nothing to do with race) as an example of the ongoing racism in America. Towards the end of her speech, in passing, she remembered to mention the internment of around one million Uighur Muslims by the Chinese Communist party. Funnily enough, China’s representative was up next. ‘In an exceptional case’ the Chinese Communist representative said furiously, the American had actually ‘admitted to her country’s ignoble human rights record’, and so she had no right ‘to get on a high horse and tell other countries what to do’.
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #366 - May 4th, 2022 at 3:49pm
 
But why would they not? Who would stay and fight for a country that you have been told is rotten from the start, has no legitimate heroes and is riddled through even in the present day by ‘white supremacy’ and ‘institutional racism’? It is the same in other countries. The Europeans may have remembered that you have to spend money if you want to be able to defend yourselves. But more important still is to have a sense that you have something that is worth defending.
Putin, the Chinese Communist party and others have looked at the West in recent years and seen these increasingly fractious, riven and self-lacerating societies. Each has done what they can both online and off to exacerbate this tendency. They think we are awful and irredeemable, and they are delighted if large swathes of our populations and political and cultural figures agree with them. Just last week one of the CCP’s propaganda papers pumped an image around Twitter of Uncle Sam behind the Oval Office desk, surrounded by corpses. The caption accused America of racism and family separations at the border. Perhaps the people of Xinjiang province have something to say about the sincerity of that attack.

Of course, unity is not the only thing you need in a nation, as Putin has demonstrated. But it’s not nothing either, as President Volodymyr Zelensky and the Ukrainian people have shown. The key question any country and any culture has to answer is whether it wants to keep going. Most of the western powers have been told in recent years that we should keep going in order to find our way to greater equity, equality, diversity and a whole pile of other meaningless guff, including ‘diversity’: an entirely anti-western concept from its foundations.

The war in Ukraine may be just the first test of the western alliance. It is clear that in the 21st century the CCP is going to present a much more substantial challenge than Putin ever could. Will the West be willing to rise to that challenge? Only if we regain the sense that we have something worth preserving. And the knowledge we had in the Cold War that free western societies deserve to win out, not because it is in our interests to do so, but because we are better than the alternatives.
How some people will shudder at the idea of even expressing that. But it is true. It is why the countries that most beat themselves up about their pasts are the countries that the world most wants to come to.
We must be doing something right today, which means we have must have done something right in our past. The rest of the world recognises that fact by its footfall. It is time we started to recognise that truth ourselves.
Douglas Murray’s The War on the West is out now.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/fractured-can-the-west-fix-itself
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #367 - May 5th, 2022 at 1:48pm
 
Frank wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 11:03pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Apr 30th, 2022 at 10:55pm:
"Sustainable capitalism" and ecology groups are sprouting like mushrooms all around the Western world, because they can see the writing on the wall.   




Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy

But not in China, the biggest threat to planetary health, knowing what's good for them.

You and your masters are despicable frauds.


er..... the topic is 'the enemy within' - the reasons for which I have explained

And just for the record, the CCP are not my "masters"; unlike you I can think for myself. In fact the CCP are acutely aware of issues of sustainable - and 'common' -  prosperity.

But the PBofC's Western-trained economists appear to be  nearly as blind as  orthodox Western 'flat-earth' economists re public debt, thereby holding back China's potentially rapid (and environmentally sound)  advance. 
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« Last Edit: May 5th, 2022 at 1:56pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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MeisterEckhart
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #368 - May 5th, 2022 at 3:44pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on May 5th, 2022 at 1:48pm:
And just for the record, the CCP are not my "masters"; unlike you I can think for myself.

You know that's a lie.
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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #369 - May 7th, 2022 at 12:31pm
 
MeisterEckhart wrote on May 5th, 2022 at 3:44pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on May 5th, 2022 at 1:48pm:
And just for the record, the CCP are not my "masters"; unlike you I can think for myself.

You know that's a lie.


Again the deluded ideologue, with his deadly "freedom" ideology which insists nations retain the 'freedom' to make war,  shows his inability to debate the issues.

For the record, I am not a member of the CCP, that's just a fact.

So I presume you are declaring that I cannot think for myself......which you would like to change....

 


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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #370 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:27pm
 
The Making Of The Western Mind | Tom Holland




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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #371 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:50pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:27pm:
The Making Of The Western Mind | Tom Holland






The "Western Mind"?

It's arrived at a sad stage in the US, with Biden and Trump accusing each other of being "a threat to democracy".....
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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #372 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:55pm
 
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:50pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:27pm:
The Making Of The Western Mind | Tom Holland






The "Western Mind"?

It's arrived at a sad stage in the US, with Biden and Trump accusing each other of being "a threat to democracy".....


Watch the vid, stooge.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #373 - Sep 5th, 2022 at 3:08pm
 
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:55pm:
thegreatdivide wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:50pm:
Frank wrote on Sep 5th, 2022 at 2:27pm:
The Making Of The Western Mind | Tom Holland






The "Western Mind"?

It's arrived at a sad stage in the US, with Biden and Trump accusing each other of being "a threat to democracy".....


Watch the vid, stooge.



Must I? 

I'm sure you are condemning me to 'cruel and unusual punishment' - a bit like listening to question time in adversarial 2-party democracies.   

Or listening to Jimmy Lai, a Chinese convert to Christianity  who thinks Jesus will save Hong Kong from the evil CCP.....
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« Last Edit: Sep 5th, 2022 at 3:30pm by thegreatdivide »  
 
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Frank
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Re: Western Culture
Reply #374 - Sep 24th, 2022 at 9:57am
 
BLACK REDNECKS AND WHITE LIBERALS



Sowell found that in World War I, white soldiers from Georgia, Arkansas, Kentucky, and Mississippi scored lower on mental tests than Black soldiers from Ohio, Illinois, New York, and Pennsylvania.

White liberals come into this story because, since the 1960s, they have been aiding and abetting a counterproductive ghetto lifestyle that is essentially a remnant of the redneck culture that handicapped Southern whites and Blacks alike, according to Sowell.

Sowell’s research shows that a segment of Blacks are being cheered on towards self-destruction by white liberals who consider themselves friends of Blacks. He challenges today’s hip-hop intellectuals as well as historic interpreters of American life, such as Alexis de Tocqueville.

Sowell’s greatest contribution with this book is debunking the assumption that “Blacks can’t do college-level work or score as high as whites on tests.” Supporting Sowell’s research is a study published last year that found most of the Black alumni of Harvard University were from either the West Indies or Africa, or were the children of West Indian or African immigrants.

Writes Sowell, “These people are the same race as American Blacks, which greatly outnumber either or both. If this disparity is not due to race, it is equally hard to explain by racism. To a racist, one Black is pretty much the same as another. But, even if a racist somehow let his racism stop at the water’s edge, how could he tell which student was the son or daughter of someone born in the West Indies or in Africa, especially since their American-born off-spring probably do not even have a foreign accent?

“What then could explain such large disparities in demographic ‘representation’ among these three groups?” asks Sowell. Perhaps they have different patterns of behavior and different cultures and values behind their behavior.

“Slavery also cannot explain the difference between American Blacks and West Indian Blacks living in the United States, because the ancestors of both were enslaved,” writes Sowell. “When race, racism and slavery all fail the empirical test, what is left?”

Sowell’s answer is culture.

https://www.heartland.org/publications-resources/publications/book-review-black-...
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