Forum

 
  Back to OzPolitic.com   Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register
  Forum Home Album HelpSearch Recent Rules LoginRegister  
 

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print
CHINA IS BETTING (Read 3675 times)
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #30 - May 3rd, 2021 at 10:18pm
 
rhino wrote on May 3rd, 2021 at 10:04pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on May 3rd, 2021 at 8:29pm:
rhino wrote on May 3rd, 2021 at 7:37pm:
Belgarion wrote on May 3rd, 2021 at 10:06am:
Frank wrote on Apr 29th, 2021 at 12:14pm:
Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.


This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Frank makes some good posts when hes sober.  I normally only read his stuff before 2000.

Yes... But I can't see why he thinks the idea of a nation having no permanent friends only permanent interests is specific to the Chinese.

“Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies, only interests,” -  Henry John Temple, (twice British Prime Minister) and borrowed by Kissinger.


You dont think Australia has permanent friends? What about Britain or the US ?

As above, MacArthur and Curtin.

When Britain joined the EU...

As for the 'special relationship between the US and Britain... There's the '56 Suez crisis when Eisenhower publically abandoned Britain and France.

And not forgetting Britain's abandonment of Australia to its fate during WW2... Even refused to allow Australian soldiers back to Australia to defend their own country.
Back to top
« Last Edit: May 3rd, 2021 at 11:16pm by NorthOfNorth »  

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 53225
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #31 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 12:41pm
 
Taiwanese Foreign Minister Joseph Wu said Beijing had been particularly active throughout the Pacific, where it had capitalised on the disaster to ensure the region’s impoverished island nations were increasingly reliant on China for healthcare and vaccinations.

He said the strategy was “a cynical trap” given China’s secrecy over the initial Wuhan Covid-19 outbreak and resistance to international calls for an independent investigation into the origins of the disease.

“We know that Covid-19 stemmed from Wuhan, there’s no doubt about that at all,” Dr Wu said. “Our scientists noticed from internet discussions in China that there were SARS-like symptoms occurring in this region in late 2019, but China continued to keep this secret from the world for months.

“Our scientists were so nervous about it they ended up ­contacting the World Health Organisation in January 2020 and alerted the WHO to the fact there is something going on in China right now, and we’re worried it’s going to spread to other countries.

“There needs to be an international effort to understand how it was allowed to get to this point and so we can try to prevent future pandemics.

“Every responsible government in the world should be working together to demand an independent investigation to pinpoint the precise origin of the virus, whether that be in a lab in Wuhan or through some sort of cross-species contamination.

“We need to open up everything. We need to be very transparent. We need to trust our scientists. We need to trust our people … but China doesn’t operate that way. Anything Beijing believes could be seen as embarrassing to the Chinese government, it will try to cover up.

“This is what’s happening to the Chinese way of dealing with Covid-19 or dealing with the international effort to investigate the source of the pandemic.”








Just like the Soviets with Chernobyl. You must not trust, cannot trust communist regimes. They are built on lies and maintain themselves by lies. It was a HUGE mistake to admit them into the WTO.  You can't  treat dishonest bullies  as if they were rule-abiding equals.

Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
Laugh till you cry
Gold Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 16619
In your happy place
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #32 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 1:33pm
 
The iron ore price hit $200 per tonne because that's what China wanted.

China bought large amounts of cheaper ore in the past and the higher price is hurting Western economies.

In the 1980s, the large Japanese trading houses, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Sumitomo, Itochu and Marubeni. played with resource price manipulation and made lots of money. Big players can do that.
Back to top
 

Please don't thank me. Effusive fawning and obeisance of disciples, mendicants, and foot-kissers embarrass me.
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 53225
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #33 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 4:48pm
 
I am as eager as anyone to follow the world’s virologists as they try to determine how Covid-19 emerged in Wuhan, China. But as a longtime student of Chinese Communist political language, I will need considerable persuading that the disease came from bats or a wet market. The linguistic evidence is overwhelming that Chinese leaders believe the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source.

Many years ago a distinguished Chinese writer, Wu Zuxiang, explained to me that there is truth in Communist Party pronouncements, but you have to read them “upside down.” If a newspaper says “the Party has made great strides against corruption in Henan,” then you know that corruption has recently been especially bad in Henan. If you read about the heroic rescue of eight miners somewhere, you can guess that a mine collapse might have killed hundreds who aren’t mentioned. Read upside-down, there is a sense in which the official press never lies. It cannot lie. It has to tell you what the party wants you to believe, and if you can figure out the party’s motive — which always exists — then you have a sense of the truth.

A few years ago another outstanding Chinese writer, Su Xiaokang, brought me one step deeper. You Westerners, he explained, are too hung up on the question of whether propaganda is true or not. For the regime, truth and falsity are beside the point. A statement might be true, false or partly true. What matters is only whether it works. Does it advance the interests of the party? The top leaders hand out words and phrases for their minions to use, like trowels in a garden. The minions dig with them.

After the Communist Party locked down the city of Wuhan in winter 2020, a local writer named Fang Fang began recording the conditions and moods of the people around her and posting entries on the Internet. “Fang Fang’s Diary” quickly attracted a large following, and the author became known as “the conscience of Wuhan.” Michael Berry, a UCLA professor of Asian languages and cultures who was translating one of the author’s novels, went to work on her posts as well. They were published last summer by HarperCollins.

The book, “Wuhan Diary,” consists of plain truth-telling. It is unadorned, simple language that stood out in Wuhan only because no one else was daring to write anything. But the regime’s response was to attack Fang Fang more ferociously than any Chinese writer has been attacked since Mao Zedong’s Cultural Revolution in the late 1960s. In his day, Mao had made “struggle” a transitive verb: to struggle someone was to surround him or her, in the street or on a stage, and hurl taunts, insults, threats and demands for confessions; no bystander would dare speak for the struggled for fear of becoming the next target. Verbal abuse often led to physical beatings, sometimes even to death.

Xi Jinping has revived struggle in a form that might be called “cyberstruggle.” The young zealots of Mao’s era, called Red Guards, have been replaced by equally frenetic strugglers nicknamed “Little Pinks.” In spring of 2020, Little Pinks and others struggled Fang Fang: “Down with the imperialist running dog and traitor to China, Fang Fang!” To them, the diary was a “pile of messed up garbage and fabricated rumors [that] should be called ‘Fang Fang’s Sexual Fantasies’!” She received death threats. A witch hunt identified her supporters and began to struggle them, too. Mr. Berry, her translator, wasn’t spared. Hundreds of text messages arrived on his cell phone: “You ugly white devil, feasting on the flesh of man and drinking human blood, the eighteen realms of hell were created especially for you!”; “If you ever set foot in China again I will kill you”; and others.

The invective may tell us something about the origins of Covid. Two facts are worth noting. First, the attacks are co-ordinated, not a random explosion of vitriol. Second, they are much stronger — orders of magnitude stronger — than other verbal attacks on individuals in China recently have been. These two facts, taken together, make it all but certain that the campaign against Fang Fang came from the top.

Borrowing Wu Zuxiang’s technique of reading “upside down,” what the Fang Fang campaign tells us is that Xi Jinping is extremely worried that the world will hold his regime responsible for the pandemic. The most radioactive question has been where the virus originated. Fang Fang made no mention of whether the virus originated in a wet market or a lab; she merely documented all of the suffering that began in Wuhan. The regime’s focus on the origins question alone all but screams a truth.

The Chinese Communist Party’s official account of the virus is that it “jumped” from bats to humans at a wet market not far from the Wuhan lab. The city government was quick to close down that market, seal it off and provide the world with photos showing that the sealing had been done. Why were the authorities so swift and conspicuous? Because they suspected the wet market or because they wanted the world to? If they were certain that Mother Nature was the culprit, why silence their scientists and seal laboratory records? And why begin a vicious cyberstruggle against someone who records daily life as she sees it?

Mr. Link is a professor of Chinese at the University of California, Riverside and an emeritus professor of East Asian studies at Princeton.
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #34 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:02pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 4:48pm:
Many years ago a distinguished Chinese writer, Wu Zuxiang, explained to me that there is truth in Communist Party pronouncements, but you have to read them “upside down.” If a newspaper says “the Party has made great strides against corruption in Henan,” then you know that corruption has recently been especially bad in Henan. If you read about the heroic rescue of eight miners somewhere, you can guess that a mine collapse might have killed hundreds who aren’t mentioned. Read upside-down, there is a sense in which the official press never lies. It cannot lie. It has to tell you what the party wants you to believe, and if you can figure out the party’s motive — which always exists — then you have a sense of the truth.

I think it was Joseph Needham who, when trying to determine whether a Chinese emperor was popular or not, read contemporary chroniclers of each period and dynasty, discovered that the historians of the day referred to natural events that obliquely identified the last emperor's standing.

For instance, if there were cataclysmic natural disasters recorded in detail, the emperor was very unpopular. If a bad omen manifested, like a solar eclipse, the same negative inference could be drawn.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #35 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:09pm
 
Frank wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 4:48pm:
In his day, Mao had made “struggle” a transitive verb: to struggle someone was to surround him or her, in the street or on a stage, and hurl taunts, insults, threats and demands for confessions; no bystander would dare speak for the struggled for fear of becoming the next target. Verbal abuse often led to physical beatings[].

And that is exactly what happened to Xi Jinping.

Even to the point that his own mother was forced to denounce him. He happily accepted exile from his home town because he was certain he would be killed.

So the despised has now become the despiser.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 36787
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #36 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:39pm
 
hi north.

china is soooooo strategic.

if you have any sense , you'll be "betting " on china.

how did the chinese outframe the rest of the world?

watch and learn

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #37 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:48pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:39pm:
hi north.

china is soooooo strategic.

if you have any sense , you'll be "betting " on china.

The Chinese regime has way more urgent matters to manage right now...

All that 'we beat the virus'... turned out to be a lie... A massive wave of infection is beginning on mainland China.

Apparently, the Chinese people were advised to use quack Chinese traditional medicine to combat the virus, then suppressed any reporting of the true numbers.

However, the facts have leaked out and Chinese citizens are queueing up in such large numbers at vaccination centres that the regime has had to close them, but not before the massive queueing themselves are proving to be super-spreader events.

Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 36787
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #38 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:53pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:48pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:39pm:
hi north.

china is soooooo strategic.

if you have any sense , you'll be "betting " on china.

The Chinese regime has way more urgent matters to manage right now...

All that 'we beat the virus'... turned out to be a lie... A massive wave of infection is beginning on mainland China.

Apparently, the Chinese people were advised to use quack Chinese traditional medicine to combat the virus, then suppressed any reporting of the true numbers.

However, the facts have leaked out and Chinese citizens are queueing up in such large numbers at vaccination centres that the regime has had to close them, but not before the massive queueing themselves are proving to be super-spreader events.




north.

90 % of the worlds batteries made in china.

wow

winner winner chicken dinner
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
NorthOfNorth
Gold Member
*****
Offline


OzPolitic

Posts: 17258
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #39 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:54pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:53pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:48pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:39pm:
hi north.

china is soooooo strategic.

if you have any sense , you'll be "betting " on china.

The Chinese regime has way more urgent matters to manage right now...

All that 'we beat the virus'... turned out to be a lie... A massive wave of infection is beginning on mainland China.

Apparently, the Chinese people were advised to use quack Chinese traditional medicine to combat the virus, then suppressed any reporting of the true numbers.

However, the facts have leaked out and Chinese citizens are queueing up in such large numbers at vaccination centres that the regime has had to close them, but not before the massive queueing themselves are proving to be super-spreader events.




north.

90 % of the worlds batteries made in china.

wow

winner winner chicken dinner

I'm sure that will comfort the Chinese people as they turn blue while they gasp for breath.
Back to top
 

Conviction is the art of being certain
 
IP Logged
 
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 88871
Proud Old White Australian Man
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #40 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 6:34pm
 
Laugh till you cry wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 1:33pm:
The iron ore price hit $200 per tonne because that's what China wanted.

China bought large amounts of cheaper ore in the past and the higher price is hurting Western economies.

In the 1980s, the large Japanese trading houses, Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Sumitomo, Itochu and Marubeni. played with resource price manipulation and made lots of money. Big players can do that.


Told you to stick to what you know and stop being an asshole - you are right and are a worthy contributor when you do the right thing.

Now - the answer for Australia - either starve the Red Dragon of ores or declare independence by creating our very own manufacturing using modern technology and skills.

I bring you the GAIA - the Great Australian Infrastructure Advance - built in the Pilbara next to the ores, operated using modern technologies of solar wind and North Shelf gas for our own use, incorporating every facet of modern conservation such as water tanks, solar power and solar hot water on every home in carefully planned neighbourhoods, and having the ability and the skills set induced in our local people to make iron and steel and all the flow-on products, including ship building.  Extra advantages are the ability to repair warships etc in a conflict.. right up there where it counts.  As I said - distance no longer matters - a missile can just as easily hit Hobart or Auckland as the Pilbara, so it matters not where you build..... only the protections you can provide..... and the greatest protection for national security is national independence....

Some are coming on board with the idea or another trans-national railroad to move coal etc from the East to the West... but that should be viewed as a secondary consideration in our (gasps) Australian Roads and Bridges Initiative. Of course, such a scheme would open up vast swathes of the country.... though maybe it's not that hospitable....

Build the GAIA like the Snowy Scheme and one day the world will beat a path to your door to build their submarines for them....   Shocked
Back to top
« Last Edit: Jun 14th, 2021 at 6:42pm by Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM »  

“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #41 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 6:52pm
 
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:53pm:
winner winner chicken dinner


Life-President Trump jumps out of bed with a plan to obtain the Capitol.
Comrade Chairman Xi also, to get the Taiwan parliament.
Taiwan has plans. "Legislators from Taiwan's main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) party threw pig guts and exchanged punches with other lawmakers in parliament on Friday as they tried to stop the premier Su Tseng-Chang from taking questions, in a bitter dispute over easing U.S. pork imports."  The premier said he had  a gutful and was going back to bed.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Frank
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 53225
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #42 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 7:01pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:02pm:
Frank wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 4:48pm:
Many years ago a distinguished Chinese writer, Wu Zuxiang, explained to me that there is truth in Communist Party pronouncements, but you have to read them “upside down.” If a newspaper says “the Party has made great strides against corruption in Henan,” then you know that corruption has recently been especially bad in Henan. If you read about the heroic rescue of eight miners somewhere, you can guess that a mine collapse might have killed hundreds who aren’t mentioned. Read upside-down, there is a sense in which the official press never lies. It cannot lie. It has to tell you what the party wants you to believe, and if you can figure out the party’s motive — which always exists — then you have a sense of the truth.

I think it was Joseph Needham who, when trying to determine whether a Chinese emperor was popular or not, read contemporary chroniclers of each period and dynasty, discovered that the historians of the day referred to natural events that obliquely identified the last emperor's standing.

For instance, if there were cataclysmic natural disasters recorded in detail, the emperor was very unpopular. If a bad omen manifested, like a solar eclipse, the same negative inference could be drawn.

Simon Leys (Pierre Ryckmans) wrote excellent essays, including on the effect of Maoism on Chinese culture.
Chinese Shadows.
https://www.chinafile.com/contributors/simon-leys
Back to top
 

Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
IP Logged
 
aquascoot
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 36787
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #43 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 7:02pm
 
chimera wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 6:52pm:
aquascoot wrote on Jun 14th, 2021 at 5:53pm:
winner winner chicken dinner


Life-President Trump jumps out of bed with a plan to obtain the Capitol.
Comrade Chairman Xi also, to get the Taiwan parliament.
Taiwan has plans. "Legislators from Taiwan's main opposition Kuomintang (KMT) party threw pig guts and exchanged punches with other lawmakers in parliament on Friday as they tried to stop the premier Su Tseng-Chang from taking questions, in a bitter dispute over easing U.S. pork imports."  The premier said he had  a gutful and was going back to bed.


i didnt really understand that post chimera but i dont understand most of norths either.

he seems to think everyone in china is living in some sort of auchwitz but does this look like auschwitz
Back to top
 

china_2_002.jpg (106 KB | 5 )
china_2_002.jpg
 
IP Logged
 
chimera
Gold Member
*****
Offline


Australian Politics

Posts: 13182
Armidale
Gender: male
Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #44 - Jun 14th, 2021 at 7:09pm
 
Auschwitz the prison? Imperial and Kuomintang China was over-run by gangs and Peoples' China is run by gangs. Work Makes Freedom, they said, and China has lots and lots.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6
Send Topic Print