Australian Politics Forum - CHINA IS BETTING

aquascoot

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #15 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 6:10am

NorthOfNorth wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2021 at 1:18am:

https://archive.is/etXwh#selection-575.0-575.57

Another lot of examples of CCP political infantilism... Such as " horrors such as the Atlantic slave trade, colonialism and the Holocaust, as well as the deaths of so many Americans and Europeans from covid-19, should make Western governments ashamed to question China’s record on human rights."

Every nation in history has, in some era, enslaved people including, historically, the Chinese. Slavery was so much a norm (historically speaking) to the point that it even found its way into the Talmud and the New Testament. Plato referred to slaves as a normative practise in Athens.

Does that give a 21st century nation the right to continue the practise?

Does that justify CCP 21st century enslavement of the Chinese people?

As for the virus pandemic... The CCP cover-up puts that squarely at its feet. Will the CCP be paying compensation / restitution for the damage it did? Not likely.

The CCP has stripped the Chinese people of their honour, turning them into psychopathic animals modeled after Mao.

at last a sensible post about the CCP

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aquascoot

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #16 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 6:13am

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

the USA is more polarised frank.

there is no concept of political friendship between americas 70 million racheal maddows and americas 70 million carson tuckers. there is not even the possibility of dialogue.

by controlling the message, the CCP has a much better chance of producing cohesion

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aquascoot

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #17 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 6:23am

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:45pm:

Where do you see China’s weak spots that could cause substantial problems for their future?

China has a set of weak spots. First, they’ve got a very rapidly aging population. Like all countries with aging populations, they need to export capital and employ young people and other countries to pay for the pensions of their own people. Germany does this, too. That’s part of the motivation for China’s strategy. They will have an enormous burden supporting the aged in the future. They’re hoping to deal with that through automation, through more efficient health care.

Their biggest problem is the ambitions of their young people. The Chinese created a generation of which 10 million people each year take the gaokao (university) exam. A third of them study engineering. They expect opportunities.

If China loses its edge in technology, if they fall behind the West, if the Communist Party is seen to have failed in competing with the West, I think that will be a significant threat to its power.

You can’t effect that by complaining about human rights in China. China’s violation of human rights is repugnant to us. Of course, we will complain. But that doesn’t really do anything. The Chinese only respect power, and our power is in innovation. If we show that we can out-innovate the Chinese and leave them behind in critical sectors of technology, I think that will undermine the credibility of the present government.

This article, originally published by Switzerland’s Weltwoche, is reprinted with thanks.

https://asiatimes.com/2019/10/you-can-never-be-chinas-friend-spengler/

the crux of the matter.

and technology has sidelined this issue.

when henry ford was making cars, the chinese would have needed spies to break in at night and steal the blueprints, or they would have needed to turn some engineers as treachorous assets to pass on intel.

these problems no longer exist.

a brilliant guy like Musk develops the tesla and the chinese just buy one and 24 hours later they have reverse engineered it and are making a knock off version for 1/10 the cost .

innovation wont help you in 2021.

not if your competitor does not recognise IP

the irony is that these electric vehicles being made in china will cost about 5,500 and are going to be sold in the states under the GM label Wink

"we dont make anything anymore" said the mighty donald.....as per usual , his gut instinct was correct.

but that wont stop lazy chodes in the USA snapping these babies up and letting tesla wither on the vine

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: CHINA IS BETTING Reply #18 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 6:54am Aqua, with his love of authoritarianism and top-down control, doesn't realize that China is far, far more fragile than the USA because it doesn't have millions of Rachel Maddows squabbling with millions of Tucker Carlsons.
Back to top	“Jerry, just remember: It’s not a lie … if you believe it.” George Costanza IP Logged

aquascoot

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #19 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:42am

AiA wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 6:54am:

Aqua, with his love of authoritarianism and top-down control, doesn't realize that China is far, far more fragile than the USA because it doesn't have millions of Rachel Maddows squabbling with millions of Tucker Carlsons.

they arent squabbling.

they dont speak the same language.

they are becoming seperate entities , no longer able to speak.
and so they will have to fight.

china does not have a "nation divided".

an authoritarian regime is the price you pay for the removal of chaos.

it would seem a price worth paying.

you wont see this in china

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #20 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 9:17am

aquascoot wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:42am:

an authoritarian regime is the price you pay for the removal of chaos.

And this from a Jordan peterson follower... He, sure as sugar ain't sh!t, wouldn't want the likes of you on his team.

Hierarchical structures become corrupt, without exception, when they are rigid and ostensibly immutable...

And the brutality, expense and energy required to maintain their rigidity and immutability, also without exception, becomes a cost impossible to afford.

The CSNSP will be fully contained and then the logistics of maintaining an untenable system will soon become apparent to every Chinese citizen...

When soon the lies, the abuse, the theft, the state-sanctioned murders the enormity of the corruption of the system becomes undeniable, collapse will be inevitable.

The trouble the allies have against containing the CSNSP is not whether it will succeed, but that it will succeed too well and collapse will cause violent independence movements from the oppressed western and northern provinces and Hong Kong.

Fortunately Taiwan, a full democracy and Han Chinese in it main ethnicity will be there to begin the process of democratising the mainland.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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rhino

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #21 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 9:51am

Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 12:23am:

rhino wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 2:22pm:

athos wrote on Apr 3^rd, 2021 at 11:16am:

AiA wrote on Apr 2^nd, 2021 at 10:51pm:

Another reason Biden's revitalization project is important

China is betting that the West is in irreversible decline

https://archive.is/etXwh#selection-575.0-575.57

When something is so obvious there is no need for betting.

iron ore just hit US 200 a tonne. Cheesy

They're gonna need it to replace their ships if they start a blue..

I noticed the Party started to get really snappy when Biden took the helm... maybe they figure he'll collapse and leave things to the little brown girl... and every good CCPer knows a woman can't handle the job...

They clearly mistake the democratic approach for softness, and actually imagine that the losers in our Parliament doing all that shady stuff are the Australian people.....

I think they already knew Biden has balls.

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Belgarion

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #22 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #23 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:26pm

Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Chinker
If You Think We're On The Run?
We Are The Boys Who Will Stop Your Little Game
We Are The Boys Who Will Make You Think Again
'Cause Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Chinker
If You Think Old Australia's Done?

Mr Brown Goes Off To Town
On The Eight Twenty-One
But He Comes Home Each Evening
And He's Ready With His Gun
So Watch Out Mr Chinker
You Have Met Your Match In Us
If You Think You Can Crush Us
We're Afraid You've Missed The Bus

'Cause Who Do You Think You Are Kidding Mr Chinker
If You Think Old Australia's Done?

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #24 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:28pm

Belgarion wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Seems to fit in with what MacArthur said..... about the Asian understanding strength or something...

Confucious say man who rattle sword should watch for extremity being cut off....

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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rhino

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #25 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:37pm

Belgarion wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Frank makes some good posts when hes sober. I normally only read his stuff before 2000.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #26 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 8:29pm

rhino wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:37pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Frank makes some good posts when hes sober. I normally only read his stuff before 2000.

Yes... But I can't see why he thinks the idea of a nation having no permanent friends only permanent interests is specific to the Chinese.

“Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies, only interests,” - Henry John Temple, (twice British Prime Minister) and borrowed by Kissinger.

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Frank

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #27 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 8:39pm

“You can never be China’s friend”
China is a rapidly growing danger the West has yet to fully comprehend. Do the US and Europe stand a chance against the Red Dragon? Asia specialist and distinguished columnist, David P. Goldman (a.k.a “Spengler”), is convinced we do. But, he warns: the clock is ticking.

https://www.weltwoche.ch/ausgaben/2019-42/weltwoche-international/spengler-die-w...

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Estragon: I can’t go on like this.
Vladimir: That’s what you think.

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #28 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 9:21pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 8:29pm:

rhino wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:37pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Frank makes some good posts when hes sober. I normally only read his stuff before 2000.

Yes... But I can't see why he thinks the idea of a nation having no permanent friends only permanent interests is specific to the Chinese.

“Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies, only interests,” - Henry John Temple, (twice British Prime Minister) and borrowed by Kissinger.

And there was that story I've posted before about General MacArthur bemused that Curtin was so thankful and fawning towards him about the US deciding to defend northern Australia from Japanese attack. MacArthur assured the prime minister that the US was only defending northern Australia because it was in US interests to do so.

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rhino

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Re: CHINA IS BETTING
Reply #29 - May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:04pm

NorthOfNorth wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 8:29pm:

rhino wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 7:37pm:

Belgarion wrote on May 3^rd, 2021 at 10:06am:

Frank wrote on Apr 29^th, 2021 at 12:14pm:

Some people say that confrontation is the wrong strategy, that we should become friends. Do the Chinese have the same concept of friendship that we have?

The Chinese, as individuals, have no friends. China, as a country, all the less so.

A peasant somewhere out in the Chinese countryside doesn’t have friends?

It was explained to me by my Chinese colleagues while I worked there that, when you’re in first grade in primary school, you look to your left and right and try to figure out whom you’re going to walk over. In China, you have your family. Otherwise, you have inferiors and superiors. But there are no parallel institutions. There’s no group of people coming together, spontaneously, to do something together as equals. You have a superior and you have inferiors. There’s no concept of political friendship in Aristotle’s sense.

No personal friendships?

People have personal friends, of a sort. But you don’t have the Western idea of political friendship, which goes back to Aristotle. China only has interests; it has no friends. There’s a term that was applied to southern Italy called “amoral familism” where you’re completely amoral with dealings of the world except for your family where you have different standards. That very much characterizes China.

This is correct. I was told something very similar by a detective from the Hong Kong Police some years ago.

Frank makes some good posts when hes sober. I normally only read his stuff before 2000.

Yes... But I can't see why he thinks the idea of a nation having no permanent friends only permanent interests is specific to the Chinese.

“Nations do not have permanent friends or enemies, only interests,” - Henry John Temple, (twice British Prime Minister) and borrowed by Kissinger.

You dont think Australia has permanent friends? What about Britain or the US ?

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