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China draws a line in the sand (Read 7943 times)
Bobby.
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #15 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:23am
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:04am:
Bobby. wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 10:40am:
Yes -
the USA must draw a line in the sand with China.
Either be properly investigated and punished or WW3 -
let them decide.
We can't just ignore the consequences of their bio weapon -
start trading again as though nothing happened.
The Chinese have almost destroyed the entire world
and its civilisation.

Again, we don’t have proof China deliberately manufactured a bio-weapon. My feeling is they did but I have no proof. Thanks to China’s carefully managed secrecy we may never know for sure.
China has almost destroyed the entire world? Not yet but they’re working on it.
From my perspective we in the West are responsible for one of the greatest of evils in relation to China, continuing to purchase goods manufactured there, some of it produced with slave labour. Henry Ford’s trade with Nazi Germany pales by comparison. This convenient, short sighted trade has undermined our security in the West. Instance, so many of the base ingredients for life saving medication production have been handed exclusively over to China. Consider the implications if China decides to cut off that supply. China’s so called Communist Party may be evil but our staggering stupidity is handing them a frightening degree of power  on a silver platter.



All business is run by bean counters.
National security is not on their balance sheet.
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tickleandrose
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #16 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am
 
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that.
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Ayn Marx
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #17 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 12:43pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am:
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that. 

Perhaps we should look at the definition of ‘free market capitalism’ first?
Instance, would Ayn Rand reconize anything about the Australian political system and commerce as ‘Free Market Capitalism? Would Ludwig von Mises or Adam Smith?
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #18 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 12:51pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:17am:

Totalitarians are unreformable and totalitarianism does not abate or collapse in the absence of an irresistible confronting force.




Unfortunate [for those who abhor war], but very true.


.


A voice from history....

...if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival.
There may be a worse case.
You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
- Winston Churchill.


The truth is incontrovertible.
Malice may attack it.
Ignorance may deride it.
But in the end, there it is.
    - Winston Churchill

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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tickleandrose
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #19 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 1:10pm
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 12:43pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am:
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that. 

Perhaps we should look at the definition of ‘free market capitalism’ first?
Instance, would Ayn Rand reconize anything about the Australian political system and commerce as ‘Free Market Capitalism? Would Ludwig von Mises or Adam Smith?


Perhaps a better wording would strictly be we should look at the balance behind our economy.  And have a very careful look at the weight in which we put to free market capitalism vs socialism, and hence by extension to government interventionism, and currency manipulation. 

Whilst I wont know about Ayn Rand or Adam Smith, but definitely Ludwing Von Mise would be very angry about a mixed economy state like ours, but it is probably as close as you can humanly get.
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #20 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 3:29pm
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am:
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that. 

Perhaps Australia and other developed nations should consider not benefitting from the, CCP-created, enslavement of Chinese people press-ganged into producing cheap exportable goods.

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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #21 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 4:54pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 3:29pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am:
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that. 

Perhaps Australia and other developed nations should consider not benefitting from the, CCP-created, enslavement of Chinese people press-ganged into producing cheap exportable goods.


Wouldn't Karl himself roll in his grave to think that the sewage that is the CCP enslaves workers more effectively than the British upper classes in 19th century Britain?
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Ayn Marx
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #22 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 5:46pm
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 4:54pm:
Wouldn't Karl himself roll in his grave to think that the sewage that is the CCP enslaves workers more effectively than the British upper classes in 19th century Britain?

No, he’d be astute enough to recognise the Chinese Gangster/Military Party is nothing like a dictatorship of the proletariat.
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #23 - Mar 23rd, 2021 at 6:45pm
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 5:46pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 4:54pm:
Wouldn't Karl himself roll in his grave to think that the sewage that is the CCP enslaves workers more effectively than the British upper classes in 19th century Britain?

No, he’d be astute enough to recognise the Chinese Gangster/Military Party is nothing like a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Or that maybe he was wrong.
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tickleandrose
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #24 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 7:50am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 4:54pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 3:29pm:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 11:27am:
Perhaps now its the time for Australia to reconsider on its position of free trade, and free market capitalism. 

One of the reasons that Australia has lost its manufacturing capability over the years is because of outflow of investment to cheaper countries.  And this not going to change.  And by virtual of free market capitalism, it is entirely legal to off shore jobs if it means cheaper prices on the expense of Australian jobs. 

Perhaps we should change that. 

Perhaps Australia and other developed nations should consider not benefitting from the, CCP-created, enslavement of Chinese people press-ganged into producing cheap exportable goods.


Wouldn't Karl himself roll in his grave to think that the sewage that is the CCP enslaves workers more effectively than the British upper classes in 19th century Britain?


The CPC is really communism in name only, it had never being, a communist state.  Currently, for the past few decades since Mao's death, it had been running a hybrid version of state controlled capitalism.   Which, it seemed, to be more efficient at producing and controlling than our system.  I am not saying that it is a good system for freedom or the people, I am just saying the underlying economic efficiency.   

For example, in Australia over the past decade, various governments had tried to build a rail line from Melbourne CBD to the Airport.  There are differences in opinion about when, where and cost by different parties over the decades.  And so hundreds of millions of dollars were not spent on actually building and planning, but rather to study it.    And this is replicated almost in each and every infrastructure projects in Australia.   Ultimately, this resulted in an fasting ageing infrastructure that is getting too old or small for use, but too expensive to expand.  E.g. the rail way network in Melbourne is based on a skeleton network that was built in the 1950s.  Its tracks are getting so old, that it would not run if its too hot or too cold - in Melbourne - a place where temperature variation arent that great. 

This lack of efficiency then caused overall productivity of Australia to be inefficient as well.  Which then increases the cost of production.  As so under our relatively free market capitalism, Australian businesses starting to seek production else where.

Now, in the past one can say: " sure!  That means only the cheap and nasty stuff coming from China."  But, they have foreseen that as an issue.  And so, whilst we are doing our best to push our intellectuals overseas with our economic policy, they were head hunting all over the world for talents and patents.  It is upto a stage where, international experts have concluded that their 5G technology is competitive if not superior and cheaper than US technology.  And furthermore, they have already (about 10 years ago), started to experiment with 6G.  This is something that we in Australia have no means of compete due to our policy. 

Just another example, very quietly, in 2020, Chinese made cars have taken over popularity over German made cars in Australia. 

The situation is dire for Australia.  I believe, we need to first take care of ourselves and make our country better, and be more competitive.  Perhaps, this trade dispute with China is the wake up call that Australia needs. 
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« Last Edit: Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:42am by tickleandrose »  
 
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Ayn Marx
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #25 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:06am
 
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 6:45pm:
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 5:46pm:
NorthOfNorth wrote on Mar 23rd, 2021 at 4:54pm:
Wouldn't Karl himself roll in his grave to think that the sewage that is the CCP enslaves workers more effectively than the British upper classes in 19th century Britain?

No, he’d be astute enough to recognise the Chinese Gangster/Military Party is nothing like a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Or that maybe he was wrong.

He was wrong on in many aspects of his political theory but I’m sure he’d be horrified if around to witness what China has become.
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Bobby.
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #26 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:16am
 
Tickle,
Quote:
Now, in the past, one can say that sure, that means all
the cheap and nasty stuff coming from China only.
But, they have seen that. 



Your English makes no sense -
what on earth are you talking about?
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Ayn Marx
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #27 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:24am
 
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 24th, 2021 at 7:50am:
The situation is dire for Australia.  I believe, we need to first take care of ourselves and make our country better, and be more competitive.  Perhaps, this trade dispute with China is the wake up call that Australia needs. 

It would be if both sides of Canberra weren’t determined to sleep on regardless.
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tickleandrose
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #28 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:33am
 
Bobby. wrote on Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:16am:
Tickle,
Quote:
Now, in the past, one can say that sure, that means all
the cheap and nasty stuff coming from China only.
But, they have seen that. 



Your English makes no sense -
what on earth are you talking about?


Apologies, that is a result of posting and reading from split screen on a phone.   It was in response to North comment about producing cheap exportable goods. 

Whilst this may be true in the past, but the Chinese have foresee that and made attempts to change.
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Re: China draws a line in the sand
Reply #29 - Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:40am
 
Ayn Marx wrote on Mar 24th, 2021 at 8:24am:
tickleandrose wrote on Mar 24th, 2021 at 7:50am:
The situation is dire for Australia.  I believe, we need to first take care of ourselves and make our country better, and be more competitive.  Perhaps, this trade dispute with China is the wake up call that Australia needs. 

It would be if both sides of Canberra weren’t determined to sleep on regardless.


And that is one of the underlying inefficiencies in our system of government.
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