Australian Politics Forum - Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of

Yadda

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Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 7:39am

Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of mind ?

For example;
Is Human Freedom real ?

Can it be real ? ....can Human Freedom be a real aspiration for ALL men and women ?

Or can that aspiration only be valid for a small minority of mankind ?

.

IMAGE.....

Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of mind ?

.

Quote:

Safeguarding American Exceptionalism Is The Way To A Better World

By Douglas Carswell
Feb 1, 2021

‘Freedom’, warned Ronald Reagan, ‘is never more than one generation away from extinction.’ Almost 32 years to the day after Reagan left the White House, it is clear what he meant.

Today the ideas of liberty — which are the essence of American exceptionalism — are under attack.

A radical New Left is in the ascendant. Today in Congress sit representatives intent on imposing ruinous tax rates on America. An administrative state has arisen that risks stifling innovation. On university campuses across the country, young Americans are taught to despise their country’s past, belittle her present and despair for her future.

......

Today in America the progressives want you to believe that there is something inevitable about the relentless growth of big government and the socialisation of the American way of life.

......

https://www.dailywire.com/news/safeguarding-american-exceptionalism-is-the-way-t...

[the whole article is just a click away.]

Is Douglas Carswell too optimistic ?

My own opinion is that we can't free a people, any people, give them true liberty, by seeking to 'shoe-horn' them into a social society, where human equality is a function of a government law - and where government 'functionaries' [e.g. soviet style 'commissars'] have a higher 'station' [before the law] than any ordinary citizen [in a political state].

My own opinion is that every social policy within a collegial society, should seek to promote the social good of equal opportunity.

But we should NOT seek to write laws to try to enforce equal outcomes.

.

Quote:

Or can that aspiration only be valid for a small minority of mankind ?

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Goethe

None can love freedom so heartily, but good men; the rest have not freedom, but licence.
- John Hamilton

Liberty has never come from Government.
Liberty has always come from the subjects of it.
The history of Liberty is a history of resistance.
The history of Liberty is a history of limitations of Governmental power, NOT the increase of it.
- Woodrow Wilson

Liberty means responsibility.
That is why most men dread it.
- George Bernard Shaw

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of Reply #1 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 8:42am oday the ideas of liberty — which are the essence of American exceptionalism — are under attack. See the issue is I disagree with this statement.
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Yadda

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #2 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:25am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 8:42am:

Today the ideas of liberty — which are the essence of American exceptionalism — are under attack.

See the issue is I disagree with this statement.

Because you only see what the 'American experiment' has achieved [and people like yourself think that you deserve/want 'a piece of that pie' too].

But you don't take the time, to comprehend what human values [and sacrifices] must be followed and encouraged,
to get to that place. .....of peace and prosperity, in a society of men.

.

Matthew 6:32
(For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of Reply #3 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:34am Because you only see what the 'American experiment' has achieved [and people like yourself think that you deserve/want 'a piece of that pie' too]. Actually I don't really. The US seems like a bit of shithole.
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Yadda

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #4 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:01pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:34am:

Because you only see what the 'American experiment' has achieved [and people like yourself think that you deserve/want 'a piece of that pie' too].

Actually I don't really. The US seems like a bit of shithole.

Historically, the people of the U.S.A. [especially those who represented the American people, in government] mostly, held conservative, Christian values.

ARGUMENT;
The character of a nation, is [always] only a reflection of the character of the people of a nation.

But in recent decades WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES, have been pouring into the U.S., legally and illegally.

And, getting into positions of power-in-government, in order to change the character of the nation of the U.S., into that, of being a reflection of their own character.

WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES.

'The Squad', Kamala Harris, etc, as examples.

Persons who do NOT support conservative views - IN GOVERNMENT.

.

Bojack,

If it is true what your say, that "The US seems like a bit of shithole."
.....why are so many people still seeking to cross over the border, into the U.S., legally and illegally ?

To what purpose ?

If the 'shithole' U.S., is no better than their homelands ?

But i concede, that the U.S. is rapidly morphing into a true reflection of the character of the majority of the people who are alive in the U.S. today.

Many of whom, are WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES.

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #5 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:02pm

What does US exceptionalism mean when it only ranks 15th in the 2019 freedom index of the Cato index behind:
New Zealand, Switzerland, Hong Kong (guess that can do with revising), Canada, Australia, Denmark and Luxembourg (tied in 6th place), Finland and Germany (tied in 8th place), and Ireland. Selected countries rank as follows: Sweden (11) and the United Kingdom (14)?

Reporters without Borders ranks the US at 45th in 2019.

The US is also defined as a 'flawed democracy'.

Nothing exceptional about the US in terms of freedoms - Lucky if it ranks as average in the west.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #6 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:07pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:01pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:34am:

Because you only see what the 'American experiment' has achieved [and people like yourself think that you deserve/want 'a piece of that pie' too].

Actually I don't really. The US seems like a bit of shithole.

Historically, the people of the U.S.A. [especially those who represented the American people, in government] mostly, held conservative, Christian values.

ARGUMENT;
The character of a nation, is [always] only a reflection of the character of the people of a nation.

But in recent decades WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES, have been pouring into the U.S., legally and illegally.

And, getting into positions of power-in-government, in order to change the character of the nation of the U.S., into that, of being a reflection of their own character.

WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES.

'The Squad', Kamala Harris, etc, as examples.

Persons who do NOT support conservative views - IN GOVERNMENT.

.

Bojack,

If it is true what your say, that "The US seems like a bit of shithole."
.....why are so many people still seeking to cross over the border, into the U.S., legally and illegally ?

To what purpose ?

If the 'shithole' U.S., is no better than their homelands ?

But i concede, that the U.S. is rapidly morphing into a true reflection of the character of the majority of the people who are alive in the U.S. today.

Many of whom, are WOKE, LEFTIST, PROGRESSIVES.

IN comparison to some places probably better, greatest country on the earth? not a chance

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Fuzzball Gold Member Offline Posts: 6384 Australia Gender:	Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of Reply #7 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:13pm Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:34am: The US seems like a bit of shithole. Well Pastafarian, since Dopey Joe took the 'pilot's seat' I suppose you're correct.............for once.
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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of Reply #8 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:26pm Fuzzball wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:13pm: Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 11:34am: The US seems like a bit of shithole. Well Pastafarian, since Dopey Joe took the 'pilot's seat' I suppose you're correct.............for once. Thanks Nerf Sniper.
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Belgarion

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #9 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:31pm

What is 'American exceptionalism'? Seems to me that this is a flawed belief in their own superiority held by some Americans based on their ideas of personal freedom that they feel are unmatched by any other nation, coupled with a belief that military power and worldwide cultural influence are natural consequences of this superiority.

This has never actually been the case, as recent events in the US have shown us. In fact the US is outside the top ten in every indicator of human freedom https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

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"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Voltaire.....(possibly)

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Yadda

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #10 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:48pm

Belgarion wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

What is 'American exceptionalism'?

Seems to me that this is a flawed belief in their own superiority.....

** = = What have the Americans [has American civilisation] ever done for us !!!!

Quote:

** Despite today accounting for a mere 4 percent of the global population, the US economy is the world’s largest and most innovative.

** America leads the way in everything from developing vaccines against Covid to the science of super computing and space travel.

Over and above such material accomplishment, are America’s moral achievements.

American exceptionalism has not only elevated the United States.

By extension it has helped lift the cause of humankind.

** Twice in the past century, America intervened to help save the world from militarism and Nazism.

** It was American resolve during the Cold War that overcame the threat of Communism.

Can you imagine what the world might look like today if on any of those occasions the anti-American side had prevailed?

** Following the defeat of Soviet communism, the past thirty years has witnessed the greatest increase in global prosperity in any period in human history.

** This global progress is underwritten by American leadership.

** As you read this, millions of people around the world are benefiting from a GPS navigation system developed by the US — and offered to the rest of the world at no cost.

** Technology developed by Apple and others right here in the United States has put into the pockets of millions of people across the planet more computing power than NASA had the day they landed a man on the moon.

** Bill Gates has ploughed billions into eradicating malaria in Africa, doing more than any government ever managed to improve the lives of Africans.

The one thing that most surprises me about American exceptionalism is the refusal of America’s elites to see it.

Instead of taking pride in America’s past, millions of Americans have been taught to despise their own country.

To be sure, America has not always lived up to the founding ideals of liberty.

But that is no reason to reject the founding principles as the ‘woke’ left insist.

......

https://www.conservativenewsdaily.net/breaking-news/safeguarding-american-except...

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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31

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Yadda Gold Member Offline Posts: 22780 A cat with a view	Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of Reply #11 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:53pm And while America gave the world all of those things, listed ---- > Reply #10 ISLAM, has given the world the peace of ISLAM. !!! /sarc off
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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #12 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 2:31pm

Belgarion wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:31pm:

What is 'American exceptionalism'? Seems to me that this is a flawed belief in their own superiority held by some Americans based on their ideas of personal freedom that they feel are unmatched by any other nation, coupled with a belief that military power and worldwide cultural influence are natural consequences of this superiority.

This has never actually been the case, as recent events in the US have shown us. In fact the US is outside the top ten in every indicator of human freedom https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

However, of course, we and the rest of the west humour and indulge them with perpetuating their myth because of their collective power and the security they provide.

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Conviction is the art of being certain

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NorthOfNorth

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #13 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 2:42pm

Yadda wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 12:48pm:

The one thing that most surprises me about American exceptionalism is the refusal of America’s elites to see it.

Instead of taking pride in America’s past, millions of Americans have been taught to despise their own country.

Oh, the elites see it alright.

They're not taught to despise their country... They're barely taught about their country, it seems.

The events of 6/1 raised the issue of whether similar things had happened in the US before... Most Americans, apparently, didn't know it had... In South Carolina (the civil disturbances of 1876), where 'too many darkees' exercised their right to vote.

Lindsey Graham alluded to it in the Senate after the riots.

As for the peaceful transfer of power never having been breached before...

That depends on whether you think the peace is broken when a bomb goes off, or whether it is broken when the fuse is lit.

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aquascoot

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Re: Is 'American Exceptionalism' a virtuous State of
Reply #14 - Feb 3^rd, 2021 at 3:26pm

the original constitution is an impressive document.

the USA was set up as a republic, not as a democracy.

the idea of the constitution was to "limit the power of the government over the people"

that worked incredibly well and really created the american miracle.

hollywood, the auto revolution, the tech revolution, the space revolution

america was a shining light on the hill, precisely because people had so much freedom.

people were SO SELF RELIANT that the government , originally, could not even collect income taxes.
there was no provision in the constitution to take money from the people and give it to someone else.
they had to change the constitution to enable this.

there was no possibility of government borrowing money either.
they had to change the constitution to do that.

but america stopped being exceptional when , slowly but surely, politicians realised that , in a toxic symbiotic way, they could construct bigger and bigger government and people could have more and more of their problems "looked after" by an authority figure.

thats just human nature.

standing on your own two feet, is always tough.

and people dont want to do tough things.

having governments give you things is nice.
who doesnt want that.

the problem is that people end up "getting what they want"
they dont end up "getting what is good for them".

for america to be great again, they need to massively shrink government.
the chances of that happening, however are zero.

for every exceptional elon musk , you have a thousand chodes .
and they all get the same power at the ballot box

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