Australian Politics Forum - Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin

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Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Oct 25^th, 2020 at 7:56pm

Things may be changing.

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........... In many thousands of kilometres criss-crossing Australia towing caravans of varying weights with diesel V8-engined Toyota Landcruiser 200 Series 4WDs, I’ve come to expect their fuel consumption to range from 18-21.5 litres/100km, depending on the weight of caravan, the road conditions including the terrain, the wind direction and the average travelling speed.

My recent round trip from Southern Queensland to Daintree, towing my 2.7 tonne Trakmaster with the petrol-engined Patrol Ti-L returned an average of 21.4l/100km for the first 1000km, battling traffic and interminable roadworks up the coast, constantly travelling at the posted 100/110 km/h speed limit. Returning via the less trafficked Atherton Tableland with a strong headwind at similar speeds, consumption rose to deliver an overall trip average of 22.7l/100km. .............

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/nissan-patrol-ti-l-2018-review-112...

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #1 - Oct 25^th, 2020 at 8:01pm

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.......... Yes I agree with all these points.
My BT50 motor failed and I now tow our 2800kg slideout Bailey caravan with a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4 3.6lt V6 nonturbo petrol.
It averages 16 - 20 lt/100km normally 17-18 lt/100km on 91 octane ULP. The Jeep does not need weight distribution bars with its standard Jeep tow ball and rides stably and safely with its self leveling rear shockers. The 8 speed automatic gear box does a great job but does get a bit revvy up a steep hill in cruise control. Petrol stations need to be assessed for access and exit if pulling a long van.
When not towing, it is a great daily drive with plenty of performance from it's 213KW motor and quiet smooth ride.
A V8 Jeep would be nice but fuel cost and purchase price would only be ok if you have to tow upto 3500KG ............

https://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/editorial/details/the-case-for-v8-petrol-...

About 5 years ago a V8 petrol landcruiser (used) was about $15K cheaper than the same ago V8 diesel.

Main difference was, the diesel had huge kms on it, often while towing 2.5 tons.
The petrol had had much lower easier kms on it

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #2 - Oct 25^th, 2020 at 8:19pm

Wow

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......... Nissan’s 5.6-litre VK56VD VVEL mill is a beautiful bit of machinery. It comes from the same engine family as the engine used in the Nissan V8 Supercar (the American-built VK56DE, which is also E10 fuel-friendly). VVEL stands for Variable Valve Event and Lift system, which allegedly helps with fuel economy and performance especially under wide-open throttle.

It’s an all-alloy 32-valve twin-cam engine that uses direct injection to get petrol to the pistons; it’s smooth, powerful and a lot of fun. There’s also the added benefit of this Patrol being quite reasonably priced considering the amount of kit it offers, and it’s a lot cheaper than its big diesel wagon rivals.

A 200 Series Land Cruiser VX diesel (its closest rival in terms of options) has a price of $99,170 – even opting for Toyota’s 4.6-litre petrol V8 only drops the price to $94,070. The eight-seater Patrol Ti you see here drives away for $78,393, and you can buy a lot of juice for that price difference.

2017 Nissan Patrol Y62 V8 badge.jpg Maybe in this new Euro 5 environment, the case for shelling out a premium price for a diesel fourbie isn’t quite as compelling as it used to be? The thing about Cape York is that, unless you live in Cairns, it’s a big drive from anywhere. So, with a full load of camping gear in the back, we pointed the big wagon north and rolled out of Brisbane.

As a mile-eater, the Patrol is awesome; it cruises effortlessly on the open road and is impressively comfortable, plus having 300kW on tap made for effortless cruising and overtaking. Open road fuel average to Cairns was a respectable 12.5L/100km.

Cairns proved to be the last time the Patrol was going to see PULP for more than a week, so with the 140-litre tank full to the brim, we pointed it over the Great Dividing Range and beyond to the Peninsula Development Road. Many bemoan the drive to the Cape isn’t the adventure it used to be, which is easy to say unless you have to live there. ..........

https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/road-tests/2017-nissan-patrol-y62-to-cape-yo...

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #3 - Oct 25^th, 2020 at 8:29pm

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........... The chassis, drivetrain and suspension on Y62's are very strong beefy, similar to a LC200. Jeep's and Disco's are toys in comparison.

Fuel economy wise in Melb peak hour traffic I get 17-18l/100km whereas in the Jeep I got 11l/100km. On the highway the Patrol will use 12-13l/100km, the Jeep 8.5-9l/100km. The only time the Patrol will use lots of fuel is short trips and rapid acceleration. The journalist fails to mention this but the Patrol will do 0-100km/h in @ 6.5secs which is Golf GTi territory and when you're shifting 2.8t that quick, you'll use fuel. I don't drive like nanny either as I luv the acceleration and noise the Y62 makes. No other SUV out there goes like this unless you paid $150+K for a X5M, RR Sport, Porsche Cayman Turbo, etc.

We've got a 22" caravan which weighs 2.7+t. When I tow the van with the Patrol we get 23l/100km and with Jeep I got 18l/100km. I also drive at the speed limits (100-110km/h) unlike a lot of caravaners who drive at 90km/h and pee everyone off on the highways. People with LC200 diesels get 20-21l/100km towing vans similar to ours at similar speeds. So what's the big deal with an extra 2l/100km's? Compared to the Jeep the Patrol is super stable and doesn't get pushed around by wind and the caravan. CB, I don't know what your neighbour was doing wrong, but 25l/100km is extreme or maybe he was driving at 140-150km/h?

Yeap the suspension is soft and it may lean in corners but it weighs 2.8t empty, can carry 700kg inside and tow 3.5t - all at the same time. No SUV in AUS outside of a LC200 with a GVM upgrade or a US import can do this. Also I'm not expecting hot hatch handling as it’s an SUV, nor should anyone with a vehicle weighing this much or as capable as this. I also bet though, the Patrol handles and rides better than a dual cab ute or SUV with a GVM close to 7t.

So the Y62 is actually a very good buy, it's cheap to purchase compared to the competition, is big, has tonnes of features and goes like hell. Yes it may use a little more fuel than the turbo diesel brigade, but the $20-$30K I saved in the purchase price can go towards the extra $5-$10 of fuel I use every 100km. I’m back ahead when it comes to long term maintenance……… ..........

https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/nissan-patrol-2016-review-103437/

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41825 Gender:	Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin Reply #4 - Oct 25^th, 2020 at 9:23pm https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php The nissan V8 VK56VD is what they use in their V8 Supercars 400 nm at 1500 rpm
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #5 - Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:22am

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 25^th, 2020 at 9:23pm:

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php

The nissan V8 VK56VD is what they use in their V8 Supercars
400 nm at 1500 rpm

To be pedantic they used to use it since Nissan ended their V8 Supercars program. Additionally, it was a variant, since the VK56DE is a 5.6L and the rules state 5L engines.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Baronvonrort Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 20653 Gender:	Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin Reply #6 - Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:53am Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:22am: [ To be pedantic they used to use it since Nissan ended their V8 Supercars program. Additionally, it was a variant, since the VK56DE is a 5.6L and the rules state 5L engines. They still race the Nissan V8 supercars
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #7 - Oct 26^th, 2020 at 10:06am

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:53am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:22am:

[

To be pedantic they used to use it since Nissan ended their V8 Supercars program. Additionally, it was a variant, since the VK56DE is a 5.6L and the rules state 5L engines.

They still race the Nissan V8 supercars

Not in the main series.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #8 - Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:20pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:22am:

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 25^th, 2020 at 9:23pm:

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php

https://www.automobile-catalog.com/wykres_power.php

The nissan V8 VK56VD is what they use in their V8 Supercars
400 nm at 1500 rpm

To be pedantic they used to use it since Nissan ended their V8 Supercars program. Additionally, it was a variant, since the VK56DE is a 5.6L and the rules state 5L engines.

Was/is that motor a good one?

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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Sprintcyclist Gold Member Offline OzPolitic Posts: 41825 Gender:	Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin Reply #9 - Oct 26^th, 2020 at 9:27pm
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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56799 Gender:	Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin Reply #10 - Oct 27^th, 2020 at 7:33am Just a personal question. Why do people aim for V8's especially in Urban areas. Do they make the effort to give these V8's a run on the outback roads? Or do they do what the rev-heads do in Canberra and have quick 'drag races' between lights and cameras?
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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #11 - Oct 27^th, 2020 at 7:51am

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Was/is that motor a good one?

I'd imagine that the VK series engines are an updated/improved version of the VH41DE/VH45DE V8s from the early 90s. Very sound engines. Some issues in early examples where they used a plastic timing chain tensioner, but otherwise very robust. (6 bolt mains, forged steel crank etc.)

"Overshadowed" a bit by the hot rodder's favourite - the legendary Toyota 1UZ-FE (and to a lesser extent, it's "big brother" the 2UZ-FE which graced the engine bays of some 100 and 200 series 'Cruisers).

To summarise the OP, a diesel is what you want if you're going to be a long way from fuel. Simply because they go (a lot) further on a given amount of fuel.

But, the gap is narrowing, as petrol engines become more efficient (and there's probably more "ceiling" available in petrol engine development - and more appetite for it, given emissions legislation - than there is in diesel.

Additionally, the price for entry (and, indeed, maintenance) is considerably higher for diesel vehicles, than it is for petrol equivalents...which buys a lot of extra petrol!

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #12 - Oct 27^th, 2020 at 12:13pm

Spoke with a mechanic about swapping over to a diesel - he said stick to petrol - the maintenance on new diesels is astronomical in cost, mainly due to pollution laws. Not like the old diesels where a cap of Diesel Power in each fuel load will keep the injectors clean... lots of smokey diesels around here - they have no real idea I think.

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #13 - Oct 27^th, 2020 at 5:13pm

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 27^th, 2020 at 7:51am:

Quote:

Was/is that motor a good one?

I'd imagine that the VK series engines are an updated/improved version of the VH41DE/VH45DE V8s from the early 90s. Very sound engines. Some issues in early examples where they used a plastic timing chain tensioner, but otherwise very robust. (6 bolt mains, forged steel crank etc.)

"Overshadowed" a bit by the hot rodder's favourite - the legendary Toyota 1UZ-FE (and to a lesser extent, it's "big brother" the 2UZ-FE which graced the engine bays of some 100 and 200 series 'Cruisers).

To summarise the OP, a diesel is what you want if you're going to be a long way from fuel. Simply because they go (a lot) further on a given amount of fuel.

But, the gap is narrowing, as petrol engines become more efficient (and there's probably more "ceiling" available in petrol engine development - and more appetite for it, given emissions legislation - than there is in diesel.

Additionally, the price for entry (and, indeed, maintenance) is considerably higher for diesel vehicles, than it is for petrol equivalents...which buys a lot of extra petrol!

Good posting, thanks

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: Is a V8 petrol comparable to a V8 diesel for towin
Reply #14 - Oct 27^th, 2020 at 5:14pm

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Oct 27^th, 2020 at 12:13pm:

Spoke with a mechanic about swapping over to a diesel - he said stick to petrol - the maintenance on new diesels is astronomical in cost, mainly due to pollution laws. Not like the old diesels where a cap of Diesel Power in each fuel load will keep the injectors clean... lots of smokey diesels around here - they have no real idea I think.

Pretty much my thinking

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