Australian Politics Forum - The death of the manual transmission

Mix_Master Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 999 Gender:	The death of the manual transmission Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions. Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.
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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #1 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:56pm

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm:

Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions.

Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.

I suspect its also that manuals dont suit electrics

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Baronvonrort

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #2 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 2:12pm

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm:

Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions.

Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.

They will have paddle shift manuals with dual clutches which Ferrari introduced into F1 back when Nigel Mansell was driving for them. This is the best way for changing gears F1 discovered this over 30 years ago

It can over ride shifting by idiots to stop over revving on downshifts etc reducing warranty claims.

Since shifting is controlled by electronics it also allows an automatic mode so best of both worlds.

It's called progress don't be a luddite.

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Mix_Master

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #3 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 4:51pm

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:56pm:

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm:

Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions.

Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.

I suspect its also that manuals don't suit electrics

Agreed, and that was mentioned in the article.

Demand for manuals has been in decline for some time anyway, except from old curmudgeonly die-hards like my humble self.

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Mix_Master

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #4 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 5:21pm

Baronvonrort wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 2:12pm:

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm:

Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions.

Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.

They will have paddle shift manuals with dual clutches which Ferrari introduced into F1 back when Nigel Mansell was driving for them. This is the best way for changing gears F1 discovered this over 30 years ago

It can over ride shifting by idiots to stop over revving on downshifts etc reducing warranty claims.

Since shifting is controlled by electronics it also allows an automatic mode so best of both worlds.

It's called progress don't be a luddite.

It has zero to do with being a luddite.

Whilst they are probably moving away from them - in part - to avoid warranty claims from poor drivers, the real reason is declining demand, from people too lazy to learn to drive them - properly or otherwise. (Makes a great theft deterrent, given that many of the low lives can't pinch your manual car because the 'tards can't drive the thing Grin

)

I don't go back as far as some, but have driven my fair share of vehicles over the years, including non-synchro road ranger boxes and others.

Just because I can drive a manual properly, and prefer to drive one, does not make me a "luddite".

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Dnarever Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 61849 Here Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #5 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 5:45pm Currently driving my first auto in about 40 years, only because my knee lost its battle with the clutch from driving 200K per day for a decade.
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Wolseley

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #6 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:25pm

When I bought my current car at the beginning of 2015, I got one with an automatic gearbox (7 speed DSG) mainly because my right knee occasionally plays up and, although I am still able to easily drive a manual (my other car has a four speed manual box with no synchromesh on first) I was concerned about what the years to come might hold.

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Jake Winker Frogen Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1503 Perth WA Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #7 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:27pm I love masturbating when I drive. I need an automatic car.
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Bertie Gold Member Offline Posts: 785 Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #8 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:50pm Jake Winker Frogen wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:27pm: I love masturbating when I drive. I need an automatic car. 'when I drive'? I think not. More like 'whenever'. Or just lose the adjectival clause delimiting time.
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Wolseley Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 1453 Sydney Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #9 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:54pm Jake Winker Frogen wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:27pm: I love masturbating when I drive. I need an automatic car. Sounds like a Tesla would be a good choice for you.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #10 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:56pm

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 4:51pm:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:56pm:

Mix_Master wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 1:06pm:

Read an article today, talking about Mercedes phasing out manual transmissions.

Granted, it's a trend that's been happening for a while, but as someone who would generally prefer a manual over an auto (perhaps except for towing), I'll miss them.

I suspect its also that manuals don't suit electrics

Agreed, and that was mentioned in the article.

Demand for manuals has been in decline for some time anyway, except from old curmudgeonly die-hards like my humble self.

You are allowed to be an old curmudgeonly die-hard.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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AiA Gold Member Offline Posts: 18405 Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #11 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:11pm Jake Winker Frogen wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 6:27pm: I love masturbating when I drive. I need an automatic car. What about the clean up? Or do you use an old sock?
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Bobby. Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 120390 Melbourne Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #12 - Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:18pm I've always owned only manual cars. I don't see the point of an auto other than being lazy.
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Wolseley

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #13 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 12:48pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

I've always owned only manual cars.

Same here until I bought my current car.

Bobby. wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

I don't see the point of an auto other than being lazy.

Unlike years ago, these days automatics actually give you better fuel consumption than manuals. From performance in road tests, the fuel consumption for my model is 5.7l/100km for the manual and 5.2l/100km for the DSG. And modern automatics give the driver more control over gear changes.

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Belgarion Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 6146 Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #14 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 12:55pm All these people who prefer manuals should also have someone walking in front of them with a red flag.
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Captain Nemo

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #15 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 12:56pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

I've always owned only manual cars.
I don't see the point of an auto other than being lazy.

Automatics are so much more relaxing, especially during Summer heat. Why row your way through traffic? Roll Eyes

The only saving grace of a manual is if you get stuck on a railway crossing ... at least you can bung it in 1st and use the starter motor to get off the crossing.

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Bobby.

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #16 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 1:20pm

Captain Nemo wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 12:56pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 9^th, 2020 at 8:18pm:

I've always owned only manual cars.
I don't see the point of an auto other than being lazy.

Automatics are so much more relaxing, especially during Summer heat. Why row your way through traffic? Roll Eyes

The only saving grace of a manual is if you get stuck on a railway crossing ... at least you can bung it in 1st and use the starter motor to get off the crossing.

I like to drive my car, not let the car drive me.
I can choose the gear I want depending on the situation.
I feel far more in control when I have a manual.

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Jasin

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #17 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 5:09pm

Travelling around NZ in a Camper (Fiat top of the range). I found that driving 'manual' saved thousands in $$$ Fuel costs. But Auto was far easier to use when in the Cities and high density traffic. It was Dual so that was great.

Working at Toyota the Mechanics would 'fix' the Manual Gear Boxes while the Auto's they replaced fully - which cost way more for the Owner.

Manual is good for those who 'love to drive'. While Auto's are really for people who consider their cars just a means to an end. I self taught myself to drive Manual in a 1967 slant Dodge 16 footer. No power steering and a shotty 1st gear. Would fish-tail right out if having to break suddenly on a wet road.

These 'electronic' engine cars are just a 'costly' gimmick.
They don't make their money on Manuals anymore - they want people to spend more. Electronic cars fail more in the extreme heat outback more than Manual-Mechanical vehicles.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #18 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 5:30pm

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 5:09pm:

Travelling around NZ in a Camper (Fiat top of the range). I found that driving 'manual' saved thousands in $$$ Fuel costs. But Auto was far easier to use when in the Cities and high density traffic. It was Dual so that was great.

Working at Toyota the Mechanics would 'fix' the Manual Gear Boxes while the Auto's they replaced fully - which cost way more for the Owner.

Manual is good for those who 'love to drive'. While Auto's are really for people who consider their cars just a means to an end. I self taught myself to drive Manual in a 1967 slant Dodge 16 footer. No power steering and a shotty 1st gear. Would fish-tail right out if having to break suddenly on a wet road.

These 'electronic' engine cars are just a 'costly' gimmick.
They don't make their money on Manuals anymore - they want people to spend more. Electronic cars fail more in the extreme heat outback more than Manual-Mechanical vehicles.

' .......... I found that driving 'manual' saved thousands in $$$ Fuel costs. ..........'

Do you mean to drive an auto as though it were a manual when appropriate?
eg, lock it into a low gear when going up or down hills?

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Jasin

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #19 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm

We compared our fuel cost to kms with other Campers who were in Autos only Campers during our lengthy trip. Catching up with many in the popular Camper Parks that some are better than the Sydney Hilton and Hyatt. As I mostly drove the Camper manual and only flicked to auto in congested traffic conditions/parking. Driving in Dunedin was madness. Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

With a Manual - I always feel more in control of the vehicle.
I don't trust 'electronic' intervention. I've seen those sensors on cars fail often. People putting faith in that, rather than actually cautiously looking for themselves.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Gordon Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 21850 Gordon Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #20 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:11pm DC with paddles is lovely....but xxy to fix when they WILL break down.
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Wolseley

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #21 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:11pm

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 5:09pm:

I self taught myself to drive Manual in a 1967 slant Dodge 16 footer. No power steering and a shotty 1st gear.

Sounds like the Austin 1800 I learnt to drive on or, although it may not count as learning, as I wasn't old enough to drive on the road at the time, a 1949 Jowett Javelin.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #22 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:12pm

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

We compared our fuel cost to kms with other Campers who were in Autos only Campers during our lengthy trip. Catching up with many in the popular Camper Parks that some are better than the Sydney Hilton and Hyatt. As I mostly drove the Camper manual and only flicked to auto in congested traffic conditions/parking. Driving in Dunedin was madness. Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

With a Manual - I always feel more in control of the vehicle.
I don't trust 'electronic' intervention. I've seen those sensors on cars fail often. People putting faith in that, rather than actually cautiously looking for themselves.

Thanks.
that leads to a topic on how to drive autos.
I drive them quite unlike most other people.
I often drive them in a manual mode to keep the revs up.
The motor operates over a wider rev range.
It means there is good engine braking, the auto's torque converter is locked up. I have no 'auto slippage.'

Autos use more fuel when they are changing gears or in the 'slipping' mode of operation.

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Wolseley

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #23 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:19pm

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

Garbage. This is only true of the older style of automatic transmissions. Present day automatic transmissions can change gears more efficiently even than the best driver, and save on fuel in the process.

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Bobby.

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #24 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:13pm

Wolseley wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

Garbage. This is only true of the older style of automatic transmissions. Present day automatic transmissions can change gears more efficiently even than the best driver, and save on fuel in the process.

An auto transmission can't be as a efficient as a direct
gear connected drive.

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #25 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:43pm

Quote:

The Aston Martin DBS Superleggera. The Toyota Supra. The Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio. The BMW M5. The Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk. The Rolls-Royce Phantom. Though these cars are all different, there's one thing they (and many other cars) have in common: ZF's 8HP eight-speed torque converter automatic transmission.

First introduced in 2008, ZF's eight-speed gearbox has come to occupy the transmission tunnels of countless new cars, from big American trucks to compact hatchbacks and ultra-luxurious grand tourers. In some cases, it's even replaced dual-clutch transmissions. ZF sold an astonishing 3.5 million units in 2017 alone, according to our colleagues at Car and Driver. How has the 8HP come to conquer the market? Well, it's very good at a lot of things............

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a27332349/why-so-many-carma...

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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #26 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:45pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:13pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

Garbage. This is only true of the older style of automatic transmissions. Present day automatic transmissions can change gears more efficiently even than the best driver, and save on fuel in the process.

An auto transmission can't be as a efficient as a direct
gear connected drive.

In theory, no.

In practise, they may be or the difference might be insignificant.

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Gordon

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #27 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:52pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:13pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

Garbage. This is only true of the older style of automatic transmissions. Present day automatic transmissions can change gears more efficiently even than the best driver, and save on fuel in the process.

An auto transmission can't be as a efficient as a direct
gear connected drive.

You're thinking of an old school 3 speed slushbox. I drove a new 8 speed Kluger today, can hardly hear the engine and the transmission is in the perfect gear every moment. Lovely.

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Bobby.

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #28 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:57pm

Gordon wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:13pm:

Wolseley wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:19pm:

Jasin wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 6:06pm:

Manuals use less fuel as Autos always 'over-rev' conservatively by 1000rpms. Even on open flat road - manual uses less fuel.

Garbage. This is only true of the older style of automatic transmissions. Present day automatic transmissions can change gears more efficiently even than the best driver, and save on fuel in the process.

An auto transmission can't be as a efficient as a direct
gear connected drive.

You're thinking of an old school 3 speed slushbox. I drove a new 8 speed Kluger today, can hardly hear the engine and the transmission is in the perfect gear every moment. Lovely.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:45pm:

In theory, no.

In practise, they may be or the difference might be insignificant.

I was referring to the fluid drive auto transmissions.
They don't connect via gears but they use hydraulic fluid.
Those auto transmissions get very hot and they
waste a lot of energy.

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Jasin Gold Member Offline Posts: 56791 Gender:	Re: The death of the manual transmission Reply #29 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 8:12pm Manual is just another type of vehicle the Car Industry can phase out and off the roads to force people to purchase another newer vehicle. Worse than a Corona in an Aged Care Home. I like the FJ Cruisers of Toyota. But many owners agree that they would prefer them in Diesel and Manual.
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Sprintcyclist

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Re: The death of the manual transmission
Reply #30 - Oct 10^th, 2020 at 9:57pm

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:57pm:

Gordon wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:52pm:

Bobby. wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:13pm:

An auto transmission can't be as a efficient as a direct
gear connected drive.

You're thinking of an old school 3 speed slushbox. I drove a new 8 speed Kluger today, can hardly hear the engine and the transmission is in the perfect gear every moment. Lovely.

Sprintcyclist wrote on Oct 10^th, 2020 at 7:45pm:

In theory, no.

In practise, they may be or the difference might be insignificant.

I was referring to the fluid drive auto transmissions.
They don't connect via gears but they use hydraulic fluid.
Those auto transmissions get very hot and they
waste a lot of energy.

yes, the auto transmissions can get hot, when driven badly.

They don't waste a lot of energy.

fuel consumption of newish autos is quite similar to manuals in the same model car.

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Modern Classic Right Wing

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