Australian Politics Forum - Scrap state governments!

freediver

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #15 - Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:15pm

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 6:36pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 6:11pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 10:45am:

"Australian States and Territories comprise 610 politicians, duplicating the activities of 227 federal politicians. Australians support a further 537 local governments. We have approximately 7,700 elected politicians in Federal, State, and Local government, and we have 2,046,000 public servants nationally...Modern Australia is over-governed and in need of a overhaul. We need to scrap state governments.", Change.org petition.

Are we over-governed in Australia?

Sure we are overgoverned. One leader could achieve the same thing. But then he'd start shooting anyone who tried to overthrow him.

Come on...we need at least two!

Fair enough, but only if we halve their salary.

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Auggie

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #16 - Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

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Gazza

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #17 - Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:44pm

Auggie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

Just like local government, right?

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freediver

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #18 - Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 9:30pm

Auggie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

How do you know it wouldn't have worked better without state boundaries?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Jasin

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #19 - Sep 4^th, 2020 at 7:01am

Why not 8 Political Leaders to choose from to head all of them pending the crises and leader needed?

Say we had to vote a PM from all the Premiers and that PM was a representative of all of them. They do a good job or they get sacked.

Either way. Politics as a 'People' fails in the Northern Hemisphere - especially when they are not all forced to Vote and have a Right not to adhere to anything Political anyway.
Northern Politics NEVER puts the People first and the People as an En Mass seem to prefer other things like Art or Religion under the Political umbrella.

The only thing Politics empowers in North America is the position of the President. It's purely an 'Individual' enterprise.

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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cods

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #20 - Sep 4^th, 2020 at 7:57am

Jasin wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 6:20pm:

I love this State v State level of Politics. It's raw, its new and it's ramping up. QLD v NSW showdown soon, the Girls are gonna go at it.

almost right jasin... its States v Fed Govt... now...take a close look at fat annas Qld rules where there is one for footy ceos..and players who frolic round the bars and pools living like kings in 5 star accommodation..

plus their families of course....

and us the regular people have to PAY for their probably 2 star accommodation even if they have their own home down the road...

shes a deadset arsehole....and proud of it.

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Auggie

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #21 - Sep 4^th, 2020 at 10:39pm

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 9:30pm:

Auggie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

How do you know it wouldn't have worked better without state boundaries?

If there are no state boundaries, where does the government 'draw the line' when quarantining? You can't have one law for one part of the country and a different law for another part in a unitary state. With federalism it's different.

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Auggie

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #22 - Sep 4^th, 2020 at 10:41pm

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:44pm:

Auggie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

Just like local government, right?

Local government has too few powers or responsibilities and resources to enact effective quarantine - the polity has to be big enough that it has enough resources to deal with these issues and not too big that spills over to other polities.

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The Progressive President

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Grappler Racist Filth Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 90385 Proud Old White Australian Man Gender:	Re: Scrap state governments! Reply #23 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 12:13am Your title has one too many 'S's in it.... S Crap state governments!
Back to top	“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” ― John Adams IP Logged

freediver

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #24 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 8:57am

Auggie wrote on Sep 4^th, 2020 at 10:39pm:

freediver wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 9:30pm:

Auggie wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 8:41pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 7:51pm:

Why would the entire country need to shut down?

If not for States, then how would a single government quarantine part of the country and not the other? That's the benefit of federalism, random circles are drawn in Australia and governments within those circles have control over those circles.

How do you know it wouldn't have worked better without state boundaries?

If there are no state boundaries, where does the government 'draw the line' when quarantining? You can't have one law for one part of the country and a different law for another part in a unitary state. With federalism it's different.

Sure you can. Just draw a circle around each outbreak. That's what is happening now.

How do you know it wouldn't have worked better without state boundaries?

Quote:

the polity has to be big enough that it has enough resources to deal with these issues and not too big that spills over to other polities

How big is that?

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People who can't distinguish between etymology and entomology bug me in ways I cannot put into words.

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Kate Walker

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #25 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 10:06am

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 4:19pm:

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 10:45am:

"Australian States and Territories comprise 610 politicians, duplicating the activities of 227 federal politicians. Australians support a further 537 local governments. We have approximately 7,700 elected politicians in Federal, State, and Local government, and we have 2,046,000 public servants nationally...Modern Australia is over-governed and in need of a overhaul. We need to scrap state governments.", Change.org petition.

Are we over-governed in Australia?

I did a thread on this just a few weeks ago

In the 21st century we have no need for 3 tiers of government.

many people are actually governed by 5 levels of government when the upper houses are considered

Agreed!

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The_Barnacle

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #26 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 11:38am

Auggie wrote on Sep 4^th, 2020 at 10:39pm:

If there are no state boundaries, where does the government 'draw the line' when quarantining? You can't have one law for one part of the country and a different law for another part in a unitary state.

Yes you can, and it's already been happening in Victoria for months now. Metropolitan Melbourne are on stage 4, regional Victoria are on stage 3. Before that Melbourne Metro and Mitchell shire were on stage 3 and the rest of Victoria wasn't.

Currently we are seeing the farcical situation where border communities (with no cases of covid) are being split in 2. Mildura is actually closer to Adelaide and has had no cases of Covid, but because it is part of Victoria it is in stage 3 lockdown.

Premiers seem to be having a competition on who can keep their borders closed the longest, because no one ever lost populist votes by appearing tough.

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Jasin

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #27 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 11:49am

When given the opportunity or responsibility - the State Governments exhibit quite a lot of independence from one another. Pauline Hanson's One Nation of boring generalisation is fading fast. There was a time when they were very different - only Victoria had Australian Rules, before SA & WA adopted it to a slightly lesser effect, for the GF was never played in their States (and still not, which has peeved WA in regards to QLD getting it).

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AIMLESS EXTENTION OF KNOWLEDGE HOWEVER, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK YOU REALLY MEAN BY THE TERM 'CURIOSITY', IS MERELY INEFFICIENCY. I AM DESIGNED TO AVOID INEFFICIENCY.

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Grappler Racist Filth

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #28 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 1:09pm

The_Barnacle wrote on Sep 5^th, 2020 at 11:38am:

Auggie wrote on Sep 4^th, 2020 at 10:39pm:

If there are no state boundaries, where does the government 'draw the line' when quarantining? You can't have one law for one part of the country and a different law for another part in a unitary state.

Yes you can, and it's already been happening in Victoria for months now. Metropolitan Melbourne are on stage 4, regional Victoria are on stage 3. Before that Melbourne Metro and Mitchell shire were on stage 3 and the rest of Victoria wasn't.

Currently we are seeing the farcical situation where border communities (with no cases of covid) are being split in 2. Mildura is actually closer to Adelaide and has had no cases of Covid, but because it is part of Victoria it is in stage 3 lockdown.

Premiers seem to be having a competition on who can keep their borders closed the longest, because no one ever lost populist votes by appearing tough.

and the Nacht und Nebel decree is in place for dissenters and opinion posters...

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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
― John Adams

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Dnarever

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Re: Scrap state governments!
Reply #29 - Sep 5^th, 2020 at 2:22pm

Gazza wrote on Sep 3^rd, 2020 at 10:45am:

"Australian States and Territories comprise 610 politicians, duplicating the activities of 227 federal politicians. Australians support a further 537 local governments. We have approximately 7,700 elected politicians in Federal, State, and Local government, and we have 2,046,000 public servants nationally...Modern Australia is over-governed and in need of a overhaul. We need to scrap state governments.", Change.org petition.

Are we over-governed in Australia?

Can you think of another scheme that would allow for the employment of so many absolutely useless people ?

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