Australian Politics Forum - Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere

Gordon

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #45 - Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 2:19pm

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 11:28am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:48am:

Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off.

That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night Wink

And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ??

You're not a lateral thinker. Growing cities, densification, apartment living.

Anyway, why are you worrying about an electric car you'll never buy to charge from solar on the roof of the house you'll never own?

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0ktema

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #46 - Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 3:41pm

Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage.

Quote:

Reactions in the atmosphere:

In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals.

These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction.

This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function.

Hydrogen on the rise:

Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years.

With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be.

Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere.

Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system.

But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use.

Looking ahead:

It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process.

A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment.

This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems.

https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemic...

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #47 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 11:57am

juliar wrote on Aug 27^th, 2020 at 5:21pm:

Canberra is going hydrogen. Canberra has 20 hydrogen cars ready to go but the Virus is slowing down the installation of the hydrogen filling station.

ACT government’s 20-vehicle hydrogen fleet grounded due to Covid difficulties
AUGUST 6, 20206 COMMENTS2 MINUTE READMICHAEL MAZENGARB

Or is it a case that with only 20 hydrogen fool vehicles in the whole country it makes no economic sense to install hydrogen fool bowsers Cheesy

LOL

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Sir lastnail

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #48 - Oct 2^nd, 2020 at 12:02pm

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 2:19pm:

Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 11:28am:

Gordon wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 10:48am:

Wooosh. That was the sound of my point, and the point the smart scientists are making about hydrogen. Excess wind/solar gets sent to produce hydrogen. That hydrogen can be used to create electricity when wind/solar production lower than demand. The hydrogen can also be used to power vehicle if that ever takes off.

That sounds exactly like a description of a battery !! Why do I need to pay someone to store excess energy in hydrogen molecules when I can store it at home using my own battery chemistry and not have to pay for it ?? Better still some EV's have bi-directional charging so you can utilize the car as bulk storage for excess energy from rooftop solar and then later on use that energy at night Wink

And where are these hydrogen vehicles ? Still coming or anther 20 years off ??

You're not a lateral thinker. Growing cities, densification, apartment living.

Anyway, why are you worrying about an electric car you'll never buy to charge from solar on the roof of the house you'll never own?

Well I still see lots of fossil fool cars on the road and I don't see fool bowsers closing down anytime soon so I guess personal transportation has a long way to go Wink

I know one dude who charges his EV for free on the weekend from rooftop solar ready to last him the whole week all for nothing might I add. Certainly beats taking it up the arse at the fossil fool bowser and giving your solar energy away to some LNP voting energy retailer scammer for 8 cents a kWhr only for them to onsell it at 3-5 times that price to a sucker like yourself !!

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"If you take out Saddam, I guarantee you that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region..." - Benjamin Netanyahu in 1995

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Mortdooley

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #49 - Oct 3^rd, 2020 at 9:40pm

0ktema wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 3:41pm:

Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage.

Quote:

Reactions in the atmosphere:

In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals.

These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction.

This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function.

Hydrogen on the rise:

Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years.

With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be.

Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere.

Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system.

But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use.

Looking ahead:

It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process.

A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment.

This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems.

https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemic...

They have a really impressive site but they are full of it! When hydrogen is released into the atmosphere it combines with the oxygen we breathe and produces Dihydrogen monoxide. While that may sound deadly it is actually a common substance found in almost everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody

There is no environmental impact to the release of hydrogen into the atmosphere! The whole question is really how practical is hydrogen production for different uses.

Biden's Energy Plan: Sacrificing Goats to the Sun Gods

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/bidens_energy_plan_sacrificing_...

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« Last Edit: Oct 3^rd, 2020 at 11:15pm by Mortdooley »

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0ktema

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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #50 - Oct 17^th, 2020 at 11:17am

Mortdooley wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2020 at 9:40pm:

0ktema wrote on Sep 23^rd, 2020 at 3:41pm:

Hydrogen has much going for it, however new research suggests to use it to our greatest advantage we may need to be careful regarding leakage.

Quote:

Reactions in the atmosphere:

In the atmosphere, ozone and water vapour react with sunlight to produce what are known as hydroxyl radicals.

These powerful oxidants react with and help remove other chemicals released into the atmosphere via natural and human processes, such as burning fossil fuels. One of these chemicals is methane, a potent greenhouse gas.

But hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction.

This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function.

Hydrogen on the rise:

Hydrogen concentrations in the atmosphere are monitored around the world. Collectively, the data show an increase over time. This includes in Ireland and at Cape Grim in Tasmania’s northwest, where hydrogen concentrations have increased by about 4% in the past 25 years.

With our current understanding of the hydrogen cycle, it’s not possible to say why this has occurred. Indeed, this is the challenge: improving understanding so we can anticipate any effects of hydrogen leakage and decide what acceptable leakage rates might be.

Based on what we do know, hydrogen may increase global warming by 20-30% that of methane if leaked into the atmosphere.

Our understanding so far suggests that if a hydrogen economy replaced the fossil fuel-based energy system and had a leakage rate of 1%, its climate impact would be 0.6% of the fossil fuel system.

But we need to better understand the hydrogen cycle, such as how land surfaces absorb hydrogen. In the meantime, we must try to minimize leakage of hydrogen in production, storage and use.

Looking ahead:

It’s possible the emission of hydrogen from reticulation and distribution systems will be low. But specifying how low this should be, and what engineering approaches are appropriate, should be part of the development process.

A hydrogen-based energy future may likely provide an attractive option in the quest for a zero-carbon economy. But all aspects of the hydrogen option should be considered in an holistic and evidence-based assessment.

This would ensure any transition to a hydrogen economy brings climate benefits far beyond fossil-fuel-based energy systems.

https://revolution-green.com/hydrogen-leakage-might-detrimental-affecting-chemic...

They have a really impressive site but they are full of it! When hydrogen is released into the atmosphere it combines with the oxygen we breathe and produces Dihydrogen monoxide. While that may sound deadly it is actually a common substance found in almost everything.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihydrogen_monoxide_parody

There is no environmental impact to the release of hydrogen into the atmosphere! The whole question is really how practical is hydrogen production for different uses.

Biden's Energy Plan: Sacrificing Goats to the Sun Gods

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/10/bidens_energy_plan_sacrificing_...

The part you for some reason overlooked
Hydrogen reacting with hydroxyl radicals reduces the atmospheres ability to deal with methane and other chemicals :-
Quote:

hydrogen also reacts with hydroxyl radicals and, in doing so, reduces their concentration. Any hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere – such as during production, transport or at the point of use – could cause this reaction.

This would reduce the number of hydroxyl radicals available for their important cleansing function.

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« Last Edit: Oct 17^th, 2020 at 11:28am by 0ktema »

"We Are Consciousness Itself"

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