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Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere (Read 6852 times)
juliar
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #15 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 11:25am
 
It must be confusing for all those misled Greenies kneeling before their effigy of Grater Thunderbung and chanting their Climate Change SCAM mantras and looking out the window and wondering what ever happened to their Global Warming HOAX.

With the drop in CO2 as hydrogen takes over won't the greening of the deserts stop ? and food crops stop growing fast ?





Rapid fall to parity predicted for Australian renewable hydrogen costs
Joshua S Hill28 August 2020

...
Work on a Siemens electrolyser. Image by Siemens

Significant and continued cost reductions to solar PV and wind technologies, as well as cost reductions to electrolysers, will mean that the cost of green hydrogen in Australia could reach $A3/kg “in the near future” and that a “stretch goal” of $A2/kg will likely come into reach, “possibly rapidly”, according to a new paper.

The new paper was published on Friday by researchers from the Crawford School of Public Policy’s Centre for Climate & Energy Policy at the Australian National University.

The authors of the paper sought to investigate whether the production of green hydrogen – which is hydrogen created using electricity from renewable energy sources – could be accomplished at a cost “that makes it attractive compared to hydrogen produced from fossil fuels.”

The main cost factors creating a barrier to affordable green hydrogen are the cost of the electricity  and the cost of electrolysers, together with capacity utilisation rates.

However, as the authors point out, the cost of renewable electricity from technologies such as solar PV and wind have fallen dramatically over the last few years and are expected to fall even further in the years ahead.

“In many parts of the world, wind and solar power is already the cheapest form of energy for any new built generating capacity. Its average cost is cheaper than electricity from natural gas in many places including Australia and is often cheaper than wholesale prices on the grid,” the report says.

As such, production of renewable hydrogen is becoming more competitive with that produced by fossil fuel electricity, especially when you take into consideration fossil fuel-generated hydrogen’s “highly emissions-intensive” nature. Even when coupled with carbon capture and storage, the authors point out that fossil fuel-generated hydrogen still suffers from “significant remaining carbon dioxide emissions.”

Basing their analysis heavily in figures from the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), the authors point out that “Typical up-front capital costs for solar PV installations fell by 79% from 2010 to 2019 and by 24% for onshore wind generators.”

Further, “The levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) for large scale solar PV installations in 2020 is between A$41-60/MWh in Australia according to CSIRO estimates … and A$49-64/MWh internationally according to the IRENA auction database.”

With renewable electricity costs falling dramatically, the next focus is the efficiency and capital cost of electrolysers – the device which splits water into hydrogen and oxygen using electrical energy.

As with renewable electricity, though to a much lesser degree, capital costs of electrolysers have also seen some reduction in recent years, and the authors believe that electrolyser manufacturing costs could fall “substantially as demand for electrolysers increases.”

The authors show that for every $A10/MWh decrease in electricity costs there is an attendant decrease in hydrogen production costs of $A0.47/kg. So, taking into account a series of other factors, the 2020 estimates for green hydrogen production from solar (capacity factor 30%) ranged from $A3.12/kg to $A3.82/kg.

Looking forward, however, and based on a mean cost of solar PV in 2030 of $A33/MWh, hydrogen costs could fall to range from $A2.25/kg to $A2.94/kg. Lower range projections for the cost of solar PV of around $A25/MWh yielded hydrogen costs in the range of $1.89/kg to $A2.56/kg.

Things get even better when onshore wind generation is involved, with its higher capacity factor of 45%. Hydrogen production costs ranged from $A3.10/kg to $A3.60/kg in 2020 and $A2.70/kg to $A3.20/kg in 2030 – though 2030 figures do not expect a dramatic mean cost of wind as they do solar. With lower range projections for wind electricity by 2030 of $A40/MWh (as compared to around $A50/MWh), green hydrogen production costs could fall to $A2.40/kg to $A2.90/kg.

These figures compare well with existing cost predictions and estimates, especially those laid out in CSIRO’s National Hydrogen Roadmap published back in 2018. These later figures assume a lower capital cost for electrolysers as compared to CSIRO’s 2018 projections.

All told, applying all analyses, the authors conclude that hydrogen production cost estimates for 2030 are between $A1.89/kg to $A3.71/kg.

[color=#0000ff]The authors conclude by explaining that “the production of green hydrogen at costs of below A$3/kg is likely to be possible, and a reduction of production costs over the next decade to approach A$2/kg is plausible.” Moreover, “Australia is well placed to achieve low-cost green hydrogen production due to its low-cost renewable energy supply and the potential to achieve large economies of scale.”

https://reneweconomy.com.au/rapid-fall-to-parity-predicted-for-australian-renewa...
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juliar
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #16 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 11:40am
 
Hydrogen added to domestic gas project set to fly in Western Sydney.

With remote solar and wind farms one wonders where the water will come from for the hydrogen electrolysers.

Will water vapor from all the hydrogen vehicles replace CO2 and block heat entering and leaving earth as water vapor is much more effective at this than CO2 ?




Western Sydney green hydrogen plant gets accelerated planning tick
Michael Mazengarb 12 August 2020

...
Endless hydogen energy clean as the driven snow.

New South Wales will soon see construction start on its first renewable hydrogen production facility, with the Western Sydney Green Gas project being granted an accelerated planning approval by the NSW government.

The green hydrogen facility, to be built at a Jemena facility in the western Sydney suburb of Horsley Park, enjoyed a fast-tracked planning approval process being undertaken by the NSW government under the Planning System Acceleration Program, to speed up approval times and boost the NSW economy during the Covid-19 pandemic.

“The $18 million Western Sydney Green Gas Project will be a prototype for future green hydrogen projects,” NSW planning and public spaces minister Rob Stokes said.

“Hydrogen can revolutionise the fuel and gas industry, creating opportunities for low emissions technologies and jobs.”

The $18 million Western Sydney Green Gas project is being developed with the support of the Australian Renewable Energy Agency, which has provided a $7.5 million grant to help finance the project. The plant will install an electrolyser, which will use a supply of wind and solar power to convert water into renewable hydrogen.

The project will see Jemena install a 500 kilowatt electrolyser purchased from Belgium-Canadian firm Hydrogenics, which will produce enough zero emissions hydrogen to supply the equivalent of around 250 Sydney homes with gas.



Jemena will look to trial the blending of a small amount of hydrogen into the mains gas network, which would provide some level of replacement of fossil gas with a zero emissions alternative, as well as looking to supply hydrogen to other use cases, including hydrogen fuelled transport.

Jemena welcomed the expedited planning approval, and expects to be able to begin injecting hydrogen into the mains gas network in early 2021.

“We welcome today’s announcement as a crucial next step towards bringing renewable hydrogen gas to the New South Wales gas network. Today’s decision means we are now able to confirm that renewable hydrogen gas will be injected into the New South Wales gas network early next year. Through the remainder of 2020, we will continue construction efforts in Western Sydney, including the installation of New South Wales’ first electrolyser,” Jemena spokesperson Michael Pintabona told RenewEconomy.

“At this challenging time, government support for projects like this is pivotal and will help bring new jobs and economic activity to Western Sydney.”


The blending of around 10 per cent hydrogen into mains gas networks is generally possible, without the need to significantly modify household appliances like stoves and hot water systems, but planning documents lodged by Jemena suggest the company will aim for around 2 per cent hydrogen blending as part of the pilot project.


Jemena says that the pilot project is intended to provide early insights into the possible role hydrogen could play in a future energy system, with a wider rollout to be considered at the end of the five year trial.

“This will help to position NSW as a nation-leader in green gas supply and storage projects as we transition to a low carbon gas network,” NSW energy minister Matt Kean said.

“It will also help us reach our ambitious aspiration of injecting 10 per cent hydrogen into our gas network by 2030.”

The Western Sydney Green Gas project, which is being developed by Jemena, recently secured a customer for its renewable hydrogen production, signing a deal to supply Hyundai’s flagship store in Sydney’s North, which will host Australia’s first permanent hydrogen refuelling facility.


“We are demonstrating that electrolysers not only produce safe and green hydrogen gas to blend with natural gas for home appliances, but that they also enable hydrogen to be made available for zero-emission transportation,” Jemena’s managing director, Frank Tudor, said on Monday.

Hyundai is looking to offer its hydrogen fuelled NEXO model into the Australian market, which boasts a range of up to 610 kilometres on a tank of hydrogen, and has already secured an order of 20 vehicles from the ACT government.

Construction of the Western Sydney Green Gas project is expected to commence within the next three months and is due to be completed in early 2021.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/western-sydney-green-hydrogen-plant-gets-accelerated...
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juliar
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #17 - Aug 31st, 2020 at 11:49am
 
When will hydrogen shares take off ?

Lithium shares look to take a hit as vehicles switch away from already obsolete electric inconveniences.

Now mini hydrogen storage to replace potentially explosive batteries in the home with much larger energy storage - days instead of a couple of hours.





Australian-led venture takes next step towards residential solar hydrogen storage system
Michael Mazengarb 13 July 2020

...
A hydrogen fuel cell.

An Australian-led venture to develop one of the world’s first residential solar-based hydrogen energy storage systems is set to get a boost towards its commercialisation through an engineering support deal struck with GHD.

Global engineering giant GHD will partner with researchers from the University of New South Wales, and investment backers Providence Asset Group, to accelerate the development of the LAVO Hydrogen Storage Technology invented at the university.

“The timing is right for hydrogen as the cost of renewables has fallen quicker than predicted and there is unprecedented political support for this emerging industry,” CEO of Providence Asset Group Henry Sun said.

The LAVO system, named for one of the early pioneers of chemistry, French scientist Antoine Lavoisier, who is credited for the discovery and naming of hydrogen in 1783, is being developed as a solution for using hydrogen for residential energy storage, capturing surplus energy produced by rooftop solar systems and allowing it to be used as needed.

The LAVO system has the potential to store the equivalent of 60kWh of surplus energy, representing a much larger amount of energy storage than is currently available in most residential battery storage systems and would be enough to power the average household for around three days.


Hydrogen has emerged as a high potential alternative for zero-emissions energy storage, with a large range of potential uses, including within the electricity system, as well as for transport and industrial fuels.

Read on and discard the disappointment of obsolete range anxiety electric vehicles.


https://reneweconomy.com.au/australian-led-venture-takes-next-step-towards-resid...
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Mortdooley
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #18 - Sep 12th, 2020 at 12:52am
 
I see you are enthusiastic about the process, I just hope to see if it is really practical or just political. We have ten percent alcohol added to our gasoline but when you do the math it costs more from field to pump than not adding it to begin with.

We use a system of high pressure steam stripping to separate the hydrogen from natural gas. Another newer system uses cryonics to liquefy everything else in a sour gas stream until only the hydrogen remains since it has the lowest condensation point.

The worst point about using hydrogen for internal combustion engines is low energy by volume, the best points are quick to refuel and all that it exhausts is water vapor.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #19 - Sep 12th, 2020 at 10:39am
 
You can't compare Hydrogen to EV in terms of efficiency, but that's not the market.

Hydrogen and EV will need to coexist side by side as each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Hydrogen vs traditional petroleum-derived fuels, that's where the difference is.  For each gallon of petrol, you get about 15% efficiency if you factor in everything from the extraction from the earth, transportation, evaporation etc.

Hydrogen sits in at about 30%, including its production and the above etc.

Yes, there are heaps of assumptions made in the calculations, but it's definitely a candidate to replace traditional fuels.

So Hydrogen already doubles efficiency without even going into combustion advantages etc or even touching on the emissions differences.

But EV from an efficiency point of view sits at around 75%.

This is all in terms of energy in vs energy out.  If you have to burn coal to create the electricity to charge the battery or extract the hydrogen or power the drilling etc, it's not "clean", but the above assumes the same electricity production and doesn't factor in the source.

In a perfect world, we'd have clean electricity production and a mix of EV for short/city driving and Hydrogen for longer range, freight etc.

But I'm sure this will trigger some...
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #20 - Sep 12th, 2020 at 2:12pm
 
Regenerative braking for semis should at least boost their fuel efficiency.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #21 - Sep 12th, 2020 at 2:53pm
 
Imagine if we farted out hydrogen. How much fun would lighting a fart be.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #22 - Sep 12th, 2020 at 2:56pm
 
Nukes baby. Even the Dems in USA are putting nukes back on the table.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertbryce/2020/08/23/after-48-years-democrats-end...
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #23 - Sep 13th, 2020 at 12:28am
 
If it becomes practical be assured your government will tax it to the point of not being economical. Emergency services are not going to be happy reporting to vehicle accidents due to the hazard cause by a hydrogen fire. The flame is invisible in daylight, EMT could be seriously burned before they even know they are in danger!
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #24 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm
 
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #25 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:25pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL


Apologise to ScoMo.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hydrogen-to-follow-gas-expansion-in-morr...
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #26 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm
 
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.


Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV.

It's a replacement for traditional petroleum.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm
 
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.


Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV.

It's a replacement for traditional petroleum.


It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable.
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #28 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:51pm
 
Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:25pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL


Apologise to ScoMo.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/hydrogen-to-follow-gas-expansion-in-morr...


for what ??
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Re: Hydrogen is creeping in everywhere
Reply #29 - Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:53pm
 
Gordon wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:36pm:
SadKangaroo wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:33pm:
Sir lastnail wrote on Sep 22nd, 2020 at 12:22pm:
Robot wrote on Aug 27th, 2020 at 7:38pm:
So these energy companies are generating electricity using wind turbines and then storing some of it in hydrogen, for later use.

Looks like renewable energy has solved it's intermittency problem.

Man, this has really owned the greenies!


Worse still they want to convert hydrocarbons into hydrogen Cheesy LOL

Why would anyone pay for hydrogen when they can charge up their battery electric car for nothing from rooftop solar Cheesy LOL

Totally brain dead liberals as usual.


Hydrogen isn't a replacement for EV.

It's a replacement for traditional petroleum.


It's a replacement for coal and batteries. Hydrogen can be made by any source then used to create leccy. Apparently the tech to go from solar to hydrogen to leccy has just passed an efficiency milestone to make it viable.


That's totally brain dead !!

Why would i want to pay scumos cronies for their hydrogen rubbish when I can charge up a battery EV directly from rooftop solar ?? Doesn't make any sense to pay for others solar PV to generate hydrogen Cheesy LOL
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