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are we condoning this? (Read 15121 times)
cods
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are we condoning this?
Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am
 
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts/charges-dropp...

Charges have been dropped against three people — a Sydney Islamic cleric, a midwife and a mother — who appealed their convictions after the genitalia of two little girls were allegedly “mutilated” in a cultural ceremony.

It now appears the landmark prosecution, the first of its kind, has been defeated even after the nation’s most powerful court ruled in its favour.

Shia cleric Shabbir Mohammedbhai Vaziri, midwife Kubra Magennis and a mother known by the pseudonym A2 were tried in 2015 for their alleged roles in a “khatna” ceremony which involves cutting a young girl’s clitoris to suppress sexuality through puberty.

A jury heard A2 asked Magennis to carry out the practice, which is linked to the trio’s Dawoodi Bohra culture but not religion, on A2’s own daughters when they were aged about seven years old.

The first ritual took place in about 2010 at a relative’s home in Wollongong, the second in about 2012 at a Sydney home.

The implement used was described in evidence as being silver and similar to scissors.

“(One girl) confirmed that when the procedure was done to her, she had been told to close her eyes and imagine that she was a princess in a garden, and that following the procedure she had a drink of lemonade and a shower,” court documents state.

“(She) confirmed that when the procedure was done to her she felt ‘a bit of pain and then a weird sort of feeling’ in her private part.

The mother and midwife were found guilty of two counts of female genital mutilation and given 11 months in home detention while their community leader was imprisoned for 11 months, convicted of two counts of being an accessory to the gruesome ritual.

It was the first time a jury had convicted people for such crimes.

But the trio took their case to the NSW Court of Criminal Appeal, disputing the judge’s definition of “mutilate”; he had told the jury the girls’ just needed to have been injured “to any extent” by Magennis’ procedure.

The trio had never disputed the “ritual” took place but argued they had not really hurt or scarred the girls, and therefore it was not mutilation.

The appeal court overturned their convictions and acquitted them on all charges in August 2018.

But prosecutors took it to the High Court who found the original definition of “mutilate” should stand.

“(The khatna) was described as ‘skin sniffing the steel’, and as involving no nicking or cutting and therefore no damage or injury to the complainants,” the high court summed up.

“The Crown submitted that this concept was bizarre and implausible.”

The High Court’s decision meant the case went back to the Court of Criminal Appeal where the trio were ordered to face a retrial.

But on Friday, with Justice Elizabeth Fullerton preparing to formally record the trio’s pleas and set a date for trial, the case came to an abrupt end.

The NSW Director of Public Prosecutions was withdrawing all charges, the court heard.

The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.

The High Court, handing down its decision last year, had warned a second trial could harm the girls at the centre of the historic case.

“The trial judge, in considering whether (the girls) were compellable to give evidence against their mother, accepted that there was a likelihood that psychological harm might be caused to them,” one judge wrote.

“There could be little doubt that a second trial would compound that distress.”



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Dnarever
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #1 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:49am
 
Looks like they got the charges wrong or the law is badly written, possibly not written to include this particular practice. Should be fixed.

May have been a good decision to not proceed if they believed it would cause more damage to the girls.

The fear is that this case may encourage the practice.
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John Smith
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #2 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:54am
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:49am:
Looks like they got the charges wrong or the law is badly written, possibly not written to include this particular practice. Should be fixed.

May have been a good decision to not proceed if they believed it would cause more damage to the girls.

The fear is that this case may encourage the practice.


I agree, seems to be a case of the charges not quite fitting the crime.
I suspect that they felt their point had been made, and another loss would have given the procedure some sort of legal legitimacy. Better to let this one slide for now and update the laws so that it can't happen again in the future.
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Bias_2012
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #3 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:43am
 
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am:
The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.


What were those discretionary reasons? Perhaps to not upset muslims, who appear to be above the law, not Sharia law, but our law
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Dnarever
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #4 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:57am
 
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:43am:
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am:
The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.


What were those discretionary reasons? Perhaps to not upset muslims, who appear to be above the law, not Sharia law, but our law


If you keep reading it followed, to not damage the girls.
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cods
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #5 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:11pm
 
Dnarever wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:57am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:43am:
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am:
The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.


What were those discretionary reasons? Perhaps to not upset muslims, who appear to be above the law, not Sharia law, but our law


If you keep reading it followed, to not damage the girls.



so YOU and the judges do not consider these girls ALREADY DAMAGED????

and more are now following because they believe its legal here.... Angry Angry Angry

I dont expect anyone to go to jail, because this is normal in their own country......

but shouldnt we be sending a very LOUD MESSAGE  this will not be tolerated in this country??????


a huge fine  could make all the difference....with jail an option.....

if male circumcision ... had the same affect on men   


would you like it swept under the carpet  like this has been????????????????
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John Smith
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #6 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:21pm
 
the judge has a far better idea of just how 'damaged' the girls are than you do cods. You really should stop acting so hysterical all the time
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Yadda
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #7 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:22pm
 


re OP.....



cods,

These actions by persons from within the moslem community of Australia, have got nothing to do with us.

These actions are moslem cultural matters.

Only      RACISTS       would seek to condemn such practices, and try to prevent them from happening in Australia.

Why so ?

Because moslems living in Australia, are not subject to Australian laws.

ISLAMIC law is superior to Australian laws.



.



From time to time, ISLAMIC spokesmen for their community, living within Western nations, will state that 'moslems must obey the law of the country in which they live in'. [IN PUBLIC]


[BUT WITHIN THEIR OWN COMMUNITY, THIS IS WHAT IS STATED.....]
Moslems must obey the law of the country which they live in.....
BUT ONLY WHERE THE LOCAL [NON-MOSLEM] LAWS DO NOT CONFLICT WITH ISLAMIC LAW.



The implication being that, moslems must obey local laws,       ...BUT NOT where local laws conflict with ISLAMIC [Sharia] law.



WWW search....
muslims can obey a local law which does not conflict with islamic law


WWW search....
muslims, obey law of land



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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PZ547
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #8 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:28pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:11pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:57am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:43am:
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am:
The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.


What were those discretionary reasons? Perhaps to not upset muslims, who appear to be above the law, not Sharia law, but our law


If you keep reading it followed, to not damage the girls.



so YOU and the judges do not consider these girls ALREADY DAMAGED????

and more are now following because they believe its legal here.... Angry Angry Angry

I dont expect anyone to go to jail, because this is normal in their own country......

but shouldnt we be sending a very LOUD MESSAGE  this will not be tolerated in this country??????


a huge fine  could make all the difference....with jail an option.....

if male circumcision ... had the same affect on men   


would you like it swept under the carpet  like this has been????????????????



It's abhorrent, Cods

but what are muslim women doing about it?

what are the feminists doing about it?

where's Rose Batty?

where's hangcock young ?

where are all the handwringing politians who'd be in front of the cameras in a heartbeat if an Australian woman or child had their genitals sliced off?

where are the protests in the street?

where are the 'keep our children safe' mobs with their placards and waving electronic candles?

where are the midwives?

where are the doctors?




i'm not going to raise my blood pressure over this

we supposedly have laws which would put perpetrators of this vileness behind bars

yet they're ducking out here claiming the sanctity of legal decisions which 'might further harm the victim'


It's not up to Australians any longer


muslim women need to step up

or the media should simply quit reporting it

we have royal commissions into children being sexually interfered with, at a cost of many millions, while the big elephant in the room isn't mentioned

Bottom line …. a dozen yapping lap-dogs will manage to do nothing to rid themselves of pit-bulls

so we may as well quit the yapping

because 'our' government is on the side of the pit bulls

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All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
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cods
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #9 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:30pm
 
John Smith wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:21pm:
the judge has a far better idea of just how 'damaged' the girls are than you do cods. You really should stop acting so hysterical all the time



seriously     A JUDGE WOULD KNOW MORE THAN A MOTHER WIFE SISTER DAUGHTER


are you kidding me.....

I know you are a rusted on mothra supporter   but seriously...ask you wife pet   would she allow that if she had a daughter... just ask please and let me know her answer..

I am thinking about tomorrows daughter/sister...these girsl sadly are already damaged 


seriously only dying  could be worse for them...

imagine your world with no feeling in it whatever..
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cods
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #10 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:31pm
 
PZ547 wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:28pm:
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:11pm:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:57am:
Bias_2012 wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 11:43am:
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:31am:
The mother, cleric and midwife were not in court as the eight-year legal saga wrapped up.

Prosecutors did not explain the decision in court but the DPP, in a statement to The Daily Telegraph, said they had decided not to proceed to retrial because of “discretionary reasons”.


What were those discretionary reasons? Perhaps to not upset muslims, who appear to be above the law, not Sharia law, but our law


If you keep reading it followed, to not damage the girls.



so YOU and the judges do not consider these girls ALREADY DAMAGED????

and more are now following because they believe its legal here.... Angry Angry Angry

I dont expect anyone to go to jail, because this is normal in their own country......

but shouldnt we be sending a very LOUD MESSAGE  this will not be tolerated in this country??????


a huge fine  could make all the difference....with jail an option.....

if male circumcision ... had the same affect on men   


would you like it swept under the carpet  like this has been????????????????



It's abhorrent, Cods

but what are muslim women doing about it?

what are the feminists doing about it?

where's Rose Batty?

where's hangcock young ?

where are all the handwringing politians who'd be in front of the cameras in a heartbeat if an Australian woman or child had their genitals sliced off?

where are the protests in the street?

where are the 'keep our children safe' mobs with their placards and waving electronic candles?

where are the midwives?

where are the doctors?




i'm not going to raise my blood pressure over this

we supposedly have laws which would put perpetrators of this vileness behind bars

yet they're ducking out here claiming the sanctity of legal decisions which 'might further harm the victim'


It's not up to Australians any longer


muslim women need to step up

or the media should simply quit reporting it

we have royal commissions into children being sexually interfered with, at a cost of many millions, while the big elephant in the room isn't mentioned

Bottom line …. a dozen yapping lap-dogs will manage to do nothing to rid themselves of pit-bulls

so we may as well quit the yapping

because 'our' government is on the side of the pit bulls





if you read the op pz this was the first case where they had been found GUILTY ..

I am in shock  we are in fact condoning this and no muslim girl is safe in this country of ours... I AM APPALLED>
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PZ547
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #11 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:32pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:30pm:
John Smith wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:21pm:
the judge has a far better idea of just how 'damaged' the girls are than you do cods. You really should stop acting so hysterical all the time



seriously     A JUDGE WOULD KNOW MORE THAN A MOTHER WIFE SISTER DAUGHTER


are you kidding me.....

I know you are a rusted on mothra supporter   but seriously...ask you wife pet   would she allow that if she had a daughter... just ask please and let me know her answer..

I am thinking about tomorrows daughter/sister...these girsl sadly are already damaged 


seriously only dying  could be worse for them...

imagine your world with no feeling in it whatever..



You're being baited, Cods 

don't give it the satisfaction of a response

that will hurt 'it' more than any reasoned response





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All my comments, posts & opinions are to be regarded as satire & humour
 
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Gordon
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #12 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:33pm
 
Yes it would be upsetting for the child victims but more girls will be hurt by letting this slide.

Barbarians.
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Yadda
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #13 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:35pm
 
John Smith wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:54am:
Dnarever wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 8:49am:
Looks like they got the charges wrong or the law is badly written, possibly not written to include this particular practice. Should be fixed.

May have been a good decision to not proceed if they believed it would cause more damage to the girls.

The fear is that this case may encourage the practice.


I agree, seems to be a case of the charges not quite fitting the crime.
I suspect that they felt their point had been made, and another loss would have given the procedure some sort of legal legitimacy. Better to let this one slide for now and update the laws so that it can't happen again in the future.





If an Australian parent did such a thing to their own child, they would be charged with child abuse,
probably convicted,
probably lose custody of their child,
and probably be 'skinned alive', by every commentator in the Australian MSM.


But a moslem ?

They get a 'pass'.

.....coz no one wants to be 'tagged' socially, and publicly, as an 'intolerant' 'racist'.



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"....And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Luke 16:31
 
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John Smith
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Re: are we condoning this?
Reply #14 - Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:35pm
 
cods wrote on Mar 7th, 2020 at 2:30pm:
seriously     A JUDGE WOULD KNOW MORE THAN A MOTHER WIFE SISTER DAUGHTER



certainly knows more than a  MOTHER WIFE SISTER DAUGHTER who is 1000km away, has never met or spoken to the victim, has never seen the extent of the damage and has never read any doctors reports on the extent of the damage


you know there is something seriously wrong with you, right?  that's twice you've tried to drag mothra into it and she hasn't even posted on  this topic yet.  If you want to cry about mothra, do it to her, not to me.

You sometimes sound reasonable when you criticise others for going on about aussie all the time, so why do you do the same thing towards mothra?  Roll Eyes
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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