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The High Court overreaches (Read 9930 times)
Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #30 - Feb 11th, 2020 at 9:46pm
 
Frank wrote on Feb 11th, 2020 at 8:56pm:
Abo or not Abo - they are criminals.  Important point.  They are criminals subject to deportation. Serious criminals. Deportable criminals. That most likely means violence.

Violent Abo criminals have another free pass now??  Culture, innit, all that violence. Special violence.



Protected violence.


I am an Abo. So is my wife. Gimme pass.





The arms of government are all intent on destroying the social fabric of this nation.... this is the kind of thing that gave rise to Hitler etc..

Our mission - should we choose to accept it - is to determine why - and then set things to rights democratically for all.

Where's Greg with his 'right wing extremists' nonsense?
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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juliar
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #31 - Feb 11th, 2020 at 9:49pm
 
Grappler is confusing the evil vile Greenies with the Govt.

All Dutto has to do is amend the relevant lego and then the Lefty biased High Court has to abide by the new lego.
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Sir Grappler Truth Teller OAM
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #32 - Feb 11th, 2020 at 11:38pm
 
juliar wrote on Feb 11th, 2020 at 9:49pm:
Grappler is confusing the evil vile Greenies with the Govt.

All Dutto has to do is amend the relevant lego and then the Lefty biased High Court has to abide by the new lego.


Never mentioned 'greenies' - you are, as usual - 180 degrees off course.. watch out - that's the Byron Bay lighthouse telling you to steer away...
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“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.”
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chimera
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #33 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 3:56am
 
You can only inherit Australian citizenship through a parent, not a grandparent.  If through a parent then it's a right and being a crim should not be relevant. An attachment to Aboriginal land and 40,000 years of the Dreaming is sentiment .  Emotion is not Law.

"Section 72 of the Constitution provides:

The Justices of the High Court and of the other courts created by the Parliament —
:
Shall not be removed except by the Governor-General in Council, on an address from both Houses of the Parliament in the same session, praying for such removal on the ground of proved misbehaviour or incapacity:"
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2020 at 4:06am by chimera »  
 
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juliar
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #34 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 6:36am
 
Normal straight Australians are flabbergasted by the lunacy of the Lefty biased High Court misinterpreting the Constitution.

One expects an amendment of the relevant legislation by Dutto to stop this attack on National Security.



Racism as applied by the High Court
AMM 12.02.20.

This contentious issue can do nothing more than foster derision in the community between black and white, all at a time when the government via Morrison and Wyatt are preparing to shove constitutional change for Aborigines down our throats.

If the majority lay down for this they deserve all they get—and it will be expensive. That won’t be a problem for the present politicians and law makers who will be long gone, living on clover for life when the social unrest of their making turns nasty!

The lunacy at the heart of the latest­ decision by the High Court comes down to this: this is pure racism­ built upon an illegitimate exercise of judicial power.

By the narrowest of margins, the nation’s highest court has elevat­ed a racial distinction to a position of constitutional privil­ege that would never be accepted if such a question were put to the people at a referendum.



‘Lunacy protects foreigners over us’
Source: Chris Merritt, Legal Affairs Editor, News Corp

Four of the court’s seven judges have pre-empted the people of this nation by injecting a new ­racist concept in the Constitution that can only be overturned by referendum or a future High Court.

This shameful ruling has punched a hole in the principle that everyone is equal before Australian law and has eroded the federal government’s ability to protect the community from foreign­ criminals who have never tried to become citizens.

Even when born overseas and holding the citizenship of another country, foreign criminals with Aboriginal ancestry can no longer be treated as aliens for the purposes of migration law.

There will be those who will say the impact can be confined to the specific facts of the case. But a dreadful precedent has been set.

In this case, the High Court majority has effectively created a new right for foreigners that comes at the expense of Australians who expect their governments to protect them from criminals, regardless of their race.

The majority has decided that foreign citizens with Aboriginal ancestry have such a special connection with Australia that it would be inconsistent with that special connection to treat them as aliens for the purposes of mig­ration law.

This principle was applied even though the men who brought this challenge never tried to become Australian citizens.

Common sense has gone out the window. The majority has in­vent­ed a new, illogical category in migration law that applies only to Aborigines who hold foreign citizenship: they can simultan­eous­ly be non-citizens and non-aliens.


The implications of this mess are endless. In times of inter­national trouble, will the federal government be expected to scour the planet in order to come to ­the rescue of non-citizens who claim Aboriginal ancestry?

Because a crucial part of the test for Aboriginality depends on the views of communities or their leaders, this means Aboriginal communities — and not parliament — will have the power to determine when the normal­ migra­tion law will apply
.
This was too much for Chief Justice Susan Kiefel, who differed strongly with the majority and pointed out that such a mechanism “would be to attribute to the group the kind of sovereignty which was implicitly rejected by (the Mabo decision)”.

Kiefel’s dissent goes a long way to limiting the damage to the court’s reputation. Four judges went off on a frolic: Geoffrey Nettle, Michelle Gordon, James Edel­man and Virginia Bell. Kiefel was steadfast, backed by Stephen Gageler and Patrick Keane.

The Chief Justice points out in her dissent that it is settled law that it is up to parliament, relying on the Constitution, to create and define the concept of citizenship and determine who is an alien.

She also argues that “questions of constitutional interpretation cannot depend on what the court perceives to be a desirable policy regarding the subject of who should be aliens and the desirabi­lity of Aboriginal non-citizen­s continuing to reside in Australia”.

“In the absence of a relevant constitutional prohibition or exception, express or implied, it is not a proper function of a court to limit the method of exercise of legislative power,” Kiefel wrote.

The great tragedy of this decis­ion is that it will inevitably be used to attack the arguments of those, like this writer, who have argued for a constitutionally entrenched Aboriginal voice to federal parliament.

The judges in the majority are massively out of step with community values and the core principle of equality before the law. They have done a disservice to the legitimate aspir­ations of indigenous Australians.

https://morningmail.org/racism-as-applied-by-the-high-court/#more-112634
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juliar
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #35 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 6:44am
 
In December 2020 one of the judicial activists will retire from the Court. Morrison can then appoint another justice and re-run the case. Problem solved.  A Lefty Plant put there by Gillard ?



[b]‘Lunacy protects foreigners over us’[/b]
CHRIS MERRITT 43 MINUTES AGO FEBRUARY 12, 2020

...
Dissenting voices ... Geoffrey Nettle and Susan Kiefel. Pictures: File

The lunacy at the heart of the latest­ decision by the High Court comes down to this: this is pure racism­ built upon an illegitimate exercise of judicial power.

By the narrowest of margins, the nation’s highest court has elevat­ed a racial distinction to a position of constitutional privil­ege that would never be accepted if such a question were put to the people at a referendum.

Four of the court’s seven judges have pre-empted the people of this nation by injecting a new ­racist concept in the Constitution that can only be overturned by referendum or a future High Court.

This shameful ruling has punched a hole in the principle that everyone is equal before Australian law and has eroded the federal government’s ability to protect the community from foreign­ criminals who have never tried to become citizens.

Even when born overseas and holding the citizenship of another country, foreign criminals with Aboriginal ancestry can no longer be treated as aliens for the purposes of migration law.

There will be those who will say the impact can be confined to the specific facts of the case. But a dreadful precedent has been set.

In this case, the High Court majority has effectively created a new right for foreigners that comes at the expense of Australians who expect their governments to protect them from criminals, regardless of their race.

The majority has decided that foreign citizens with Aboriginal ancestry have such a special connection with Australia that it would be inconsistent with that special connection to treat them as aliens for the purposes of mig­ration law. This principle was applied even though the men who brought this challenge never tried to become Australian citizens.

...

Common sense has gone out the window. The majority has in­vent­ed a new, illogical category in migration law that applies only to Aborigines who hold foreign citizenship: they can simultan­eous­ly be non-citizens and non-aliens.

The implications of this mess are endless. In times of inter­national trouble, will the federal government be expected to scour the planet in order to come to ­the rescue of non-citizens who claim Aboriginal ancestry?

Because a crucial part of the test for Aboriginality depends on the views of communities or their leaders, this means Aboriginal communities — and not parliament — will have the power to determine when the normal­ migra­tion law will apply.

This was too much for Chief Justice Susan Kiefel, who differed strongly with the majority and pointed out that such a mechanism “would be to attribute to the group the kind of sovereignty which was implicitly rejected by (the Mabo decision)”.

Kiefel’s dissent goes a long way to limiting the damage to the court’s reputation. Four judges went off on a frolic: Geoffrey Nettle, Michelle Gordon, James Edel­man and Virginia Bell. Kiefel was steadfast, backed by Stephen Gageler and Patrick Keane.

...

The Chief Justice points out in her dissent that it is settled law that it is up to parliament, relying on the Constitution, to create and define the concept of citizenship and determine who is an alien.

She also argues that “questions of constitutional interpretation cannot depend on what the court perceives to be a desirable policy regarding the subject of who should be aliens and the desirabi­lity of Aboriginal non-citizen­s continuing to reside in Australia”.

“In the absence of a relevant constitutional prohibition or exception, express or implied, it is not a proper function of a court to limit the method of exercise of legislative power,” Kiefel wrote.

The great tragedy of this decis­ion is that it will inevitably be used to attack the arguments of those, like this writer, who have argued for a constitutionally entrenched Aboriginal voice to federal parliament.

The judges in the majority are massively out of step with community values and the core principle of equality before the law. They have done a disservice to the legitimate aspir­ations of indigenous Australians.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/legal-affairs/lunacy-protects-foreigne...
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juliar
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #36 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 6:44am
 
COMMENTS

James R G 11 MINUTES AGO
Well written Chris. Congratulations on standing up to this lunacy.

Phil 14 MINUTES AGO
One of the interesting implications coming out of this decision is a need to settle the ‘who is an aboriginal’ question.  “It’s a question of fact” they will say. Unfortunately ‘fact’ in this space is a slippery concept, and subject to progressive adjustment.
Watch this space!

1st 10 MINUTES AGO
In December 2020 one of the judicial activists will retire from the Court. Morrison can then appoint another justice and re-run the case. Problem solved.

John 14 MINUTES AGO
Now that the High Court has established Special racially defined rights the next argument from activists will be which of Australian laws should this special group decide it wants to adhere to. 

John 16 MINUTES AGO
This nonsense guarantees that any referendum on aboriginal special rights and a "voice" will be defeated. Or perhaps after 200 years of Australian heritage I become part of "the mob"?

Jim 22 MINUTES AGO
And when I lived in Ireland I had to register as an alien, even though I had Irish heritage. I still have the certificate.

Nip 23 MINUTES AGO
This raises the question of whether this is indeed a privilege for aboriginal people. A paternalistic attitude to aboriginals actually hinders their progress to being free and equal members of society.

david 21 MINUTES AGO
I notice the writer mentions this decision can be overturned by referendum. hmm, so whens the next election?

Nick 4 MINUTES AGO
an election is not a referendum

Andrew 25 MINUTES AGO
We are all equal, some are more equal than others

John 27 MINUTES AGO
Imagine this lot under a republic.  No thanks - constitutional monarchy for me.

Jim 27 MINUTES AGO
That saves a referendum and we can save on elections and parliament. Just leave everything to the High Court.

Jim 30 MINUTES AGO
Formal recognition is now dead in the water

John 31 MINUTES AGO
Better stick it in the proposed referendum then.

Susan 31 MINUTES AGO
Judicial activism has no place here.

Richard 32 MINUTES AGO
Indigenous people face an uphill battle because they are perceived to be privileged and 'more entitled' than others. It utterly destroys the myth of egalitarianism.
This perception will now be further enhanced in the eyes of the broader population because it is clear that four (4) High Court Judges see it that way too.
The backlash against the indigenous community will be overwhelming in their seeking any voice or any further advantage by referendum.

GeoffB 32 MINUTES AGO
I think Chris Merritt is right that this decision, once the importance sinks in throughout the Australian community, will torpedo Ken Wyatt's dreams for a "voice" or Constitutional recognition,

Jason R 38 MINUTES AGO
and to think years ago I used to line up in the All Other Aliens queue when visiting the UK

Ray B2 39 MINUTES AGO
The High Court has brought civil unrest in Australia one step closer with this decision.

John 43 MINUTES AGO
It’s going to be harder to argue for Constitutional Change when indigenous people already enjoy special privileges.

TheCoolBanana 44 MINUTES AGO
Agree ... well argued.

Peter 45 MINUTES AGO
So we can now add the judiciary to the ABC, the Australian Human Rights Commission, all of academia, the Public Services, some state Police Forces, as yet another of our institutions to go woke and assume they have the right to defy commonsense and inflict the ideology of the privileged, metro elite,  born to rule, left establishment, on us all.

JosephK 21 MINUTES AGO
Nope, don’t think so, not on the basis of one decision.

Linda 46 MINUTES AGO
Being as claims of Aboriginal ancestry seem not allowed to be challenged, this could be a huge can of worms. What is citizenship worth now, when it can be so easily usurped by race? I think this points the way to exactly how any race based parliamentary recognition will go, so we should all be warned before they ask us. Shameful indeed!

David 46 MINUTES AGO
My aunty has no Aboriginal ancestry, but after years of working in an indiginous community has been accepted as one of the mob. So she quite rightly claims to be Aborininal, because its an identity.
This concept has now been accepted into the law of Australia.

Peter 47 MINUTES AGO
Your race is irrelevant and this is where the court has erred. Decisions should be based solely on citizenship and if you aren't an Australian citizen irrespective of race then you shouldn't be awarded the same privileges citizenship allegedly gives us or are they telling us now Australian citizenship isn't worth anything ? This is how civil wars start when you no longer have anything of value or a common bond that makes us Australians.

John 47 MINUTES AGO
So who is right, seven judges or the 70 commentators (so far)?
What makes sense, the legal system or commonsense?
What should we do, nothing or have a referendum to put it right?
Easy answers.
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #37 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:41am
 
People will do anything not to get deported. One ex criminal deportee is white and the other is Papua New Guinean (Melanesian) part Maori trying to say his mother was Torres Straight Islander. And as usual the do-gooders lapped it up.
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #38 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:46am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:41am:
People will do anything not to get deported. 


Wouldn't you?

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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #39 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:48am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:46am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:41am:
People will do anything not to get deported. 


Wouldn't you?


No. If I acted like a cretin while a non citizen I'd take it on the chin. I have non time for criminals.
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #40 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:55am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:48am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:46am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:41am:
People will do anything not to get deported. 


Wouldn't you?


No. If I acted like a cretin while a non citizen I'd take it on the chin. I have non time for criminals.


Bullshit.

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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #41 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:59am
 
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:55am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:48am:
greggerypeccary wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:46am:
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 10:41am:
People will do anything not to get deported. 


Wouldn't you?


No. If I acted like a cretin while a non citizen I'd take it on the chin. I have non time for criminals.


Bullshit.


See  I've never been sentenced to anything in my whole life so I don't understand these people. If I was living in another country as a guest I'd act like a guest.
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #42 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:04am
 
Quote:
If I was living in another country as a guest I'd act like a guest.

James Cook , Arthur Phillip.   British citizens
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #43 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:07am
 
chimera wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:04am:
Quote:
If I was living in another country as a guest I'd act like a guest.

James Cook , Arthur Phillip.   British citizens

James Cook never did anything . He just cruised around and mapped the coast. In modern times we have laws. It was different 200 hundred plus years ago.
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« Last Edit: Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:17am by Mr Hammer »  
 
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Re: The High Court overreaches
Reply #44 - Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:09am
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:07am:
chimera wrote on Feb 12th, 2020 at 11:04am:
Quote:
If I was living in another country as a guest I'd act like a guest.

James Cook , Arthur Phillip.   British citizens

James Cook never did anything . He just cruised around and mapped the coast. In modern times we have laws. It was different 200 hundred plus years ago.


So, it's only laws that stop you from doing things?

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