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Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING! (Read 6937 times)
The_Barnacle
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #45 - Dec 27th, 2019 at 12:38pm
 
Ajax wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:54am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:38am:
Ajax wrote on Dec 24th, 2019 at 8:49am:
Australia's eco system sequesters more CO2 every year than Australia emits, therefore we are a carbon neutral country, what we emit is taken up by our land and its eco system.



Before we go way off topic I'll ask you again.

In your opening post why have you failed to include natural CO2 emissions in your calulations?

If you only include natural sequestering and human emissions then you are missing a very important part of the carbon cycle and your conclusion will be wrong


Human emissions is what its all about right barny....?

Can we agree on that point, because I haven't found a document that tackles natural CO2.



So why then are you using natural CO2 absorption in you OP?
You can't have it both ways.
You can't count natural absorption but then ignore natural emissions.

Ajax wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:54am:
So then when you invest in a tree plantation for the purpose of sequestering CO2 out of the atmosphere for carbon credits are you sequestering manmade CO2 or natural CO2, or just CO2 from the atmosphere.

Which is it barny.......???



That's a completely different question. Your OP related to the CO2 absorption of natural forests and grasslands

All of which is currently releasing all of its CO2 in the bushfires through out the country (but of course you don't count this, you only count it when forests and grasslands absorb CO2)
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Ajax
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #46 - Dec 27th, 2019 at 12:53pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 27th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
Ajax wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:54am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:38am:
Ajax wrote on Dec 24th, 2019 at 8:49am:
Australia's eco system sequesters more CO2 every year than Australia emits, therefore we are a carbon neutral country, what we emit is taken up by our land and its eco system.



Before we go way off topic I'll ask you again.

In your opening post why have you failed to include natural CO2 emissions in your calulations?

If you only include natural sequestering and human emissions then you are missing a very important part or the carbon cycle and your conclusion will be wrong


Human emissions is what its all about right barny....?

Can we agree on that point, because I haven't found a document that tackles natural CO2.



So why then are you using natural CO2 absorption in you OP?
You can't have it both ways.
You can't count natural absorption but then ignore natural emissions.

Ajax wrote on Dec 26th, 2019 at 11:54am:
So then when you invest in a tree plantation for the purpose of sequestering CO2 out of the atmosphere for carbon credits are you sequestering manmade CO2 or natural CO2, or just CO2 from the atmosphere.

Which is it barny.......???



That's a completely different question. Your OP related to the CO2 absorption of natural forests and grasslands

All of which is currently releasing all of its CO2 in the bushfires through out the country (but of course you don't count this, you only count it when forests and grasslands absorb CO2)


Oh Dear barny why are you using strawman argument.

All natural sinks degas at one time or another.

Apart from bush fires usually the degassing is much lower than their long term storage or annual flux.

Degassing involves a few million tonnes of CO2.

The annual flux involves thousands of millions of tonnes of CO2.

And long term storage involve billions of tonnes of CO2

In fact I will go out on a limb and say business as usual degasing is negligible compared to uptake.

But remember I said not bush fires.

Geez barny even the oceans degas mate and when that happens there are just not enough sinks in this world.

Floods and regrowth, bush fires and re-emissions all part of the natural cycle barny.

Cant have it both ways pal.

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« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2019 at 1:44pm by Ajax »  

1. There has never been a more serious assault on our standard of living than Anthropogenic Global Warming..Ajax
2. "One hour of freedom is worth more than 40 years of slavery &  prison" Regas Feraeos
 
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lee
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #47 - Dec 27th, 2019 at 6:33pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 27th, 2019 at 9:44am:
Quote:
Australia's weather pattern transitioned rapidly to a wet La Niña pattern during the autumn of 2010, resulting in record-breaking rains in the Murray-Darling basin and well above average rainfall across the south-east. For many locations this was the first year of above-average rainfall since 1996. The rainfall dramatically increased surface water storage and soil moisture, effectively ending the drought in the south-east.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000s_Australian_drought



oh noes. Quoting wiki? Grin Grin Grin Grin

So youbelieve wiki over peer-reviewed articles? Grin Grin Grin

"Our results show a strong carbon uptake in Australia from the end of 2010 to mid‐2012. This uptake coincided with record‐breaking rainfall and consequent soil moisture increase that lead to increased growth of vegetation as shown by the increased SIF and the observed peak in biomass burning emissions, as well as the large increased flux uptake shown in the inversion results."

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL065161

From one of your previous posts -

The_Barnacle wrote on Oct 20th, 2019 at 9:41am:
Record-breaking rains triggered so much new growth across Australia that the continent turned into a giant green carbon sink to rival tropical rainforests including the Amazon, our new research shows.

And that had a global impact. While atmospheric carbon dioxide still rose in 2011, it grew at a much lower rate – nearly 20% lower – than the average growth over the previous decade.

Almost 60% of the higher than normal carbon uptake that year, or 840 million tons, happened in Australia. That was due to a combination of factors, including geography and a run of very dry years, followed by record-breaking rains in 2010 and 2011.
https://blog.csiro.au/record-rains-made-australia-a-giant-green-global-carbon-si...


From that report from the CSIRO -

"From October 2010 to March 2011, an extraordinary rainfall event occurred over most of Australia, which resulted in three-quarters of Queensland being declared a flood disaster zone – an area as big as France, Germany and Italy combined."

https://blog.csiro.au/record-rains-made-australia-a-giant-green-global-carbon-si...

So on the one hand you misquote them and on the other you deny the science. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Of course October in the US is Autumn. Wink

Now see if you can do the job properly. Grin Grin Grin Grin
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #48 - Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am
 
lee wrote on Dec 27th, 2019 at 6:33pm:
Of course October in the US is Autumn. Wink



Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

No lee, October in the US is the "FALL"  Wink
The drought broke in March 2010

The stupidity of your last post is quite breathtaking
Sure the extraordinary rainfall event was from October 2010 to March 2011, but the drought actually broke in March 2010 (as evidenced in this map).
Given that October to December would be peak growing seasons anyway, you post actually supports my contention that 2010 was an extraordinary year that whatsupwiththat happened to cherry pick very unscientifically  Wink

Its funny that you always try and discredit BOM data because they don't have weather stations covering every square inch of the continent but you uncritically accept whatsupwiththat.com data cherry picked from one of the wettest years this century  Grin Grin Grin.
As I always say, you have one standard for your own evidence and another standard for everyone elses.

So once again i will ask.
Have you got any evidence that Australia is a carbon sink from any other year except 2010?

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March2010.gif (79 KB | 10 )
March2010.gif

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lee
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #49 - Dec 28th, 2019 at 11:46am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
No lee, October in the US is the "FALL"



And the "FALL" is the leaves falling AKA Autumn. Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
The drought broke in March 2010


Also, 2009 and early 2010 were very dry years due to a strong El Niño. At the end of 2010, however, this shifted dramatically as the combined effect of a strong La Niña with enhancing influences from the Indian Ocean Dipole and Southern Annular Mode causing record‐breaking precipitation over large parts of Australia. This lasted well into 2012 and has been associated with a global 7 mm drop in the ocean levels [Fasullo et al., 2013].

...

Figure 4
Carbon flux IAV for a TM5‐4DVAR GOSAT‐based inversion and a CASA‐GFED TM5 forward model run

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2015GL065161

Note the carbon flux decreasing from the GOSAT satellite in 2010. Wink

That's what the science says petal. Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
Given that October to December would be peak growing seasons anyway, you post actually supports my contention that 2010 was an extraordinary year that whatsupwiththat happened to cherry pick very unscientifically 


Nope. Peak growing is Spring. Ripening happens from October to December. You don't know much about growing seasons do you? Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
Its funny that you always try and discredit BOM data because they don't have weather stations covering every square inch of the continent but you uncritically accept whatsupwiththat.com data cherry picked from one of the wettest years this century



And yet it is data from a Japanese satellite.  You, like random, like to shoot the messenger.Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
As I always say, you have one standard for your own evidence and another standard for everyone elses.


So you disagree with the paper from the American Geophysical Union? How novel. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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The_Barnacle
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #50 - Dec 28th, 2019 at 11:52am
 
lee wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 11:46am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 9:37am:
Given that October to December would be peak growing seasons anyway, you post actually supports my contention that 2010 was an extraordinary year that whatsupwiththat happened to cherry pick very unscientifically 


Nope. Peak growing is Spring. Ripening happens from October to December. You don't know much about growing seasons do you? Wink



Last time I checked October and November were spring  Wink

Just admit you are wrong lee instead of playing these endless verbal gymnastics.
It will save us both a lot of time
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #51 - Dec 28th, 2019 at 12:38pm
 
From your own source

Quote:
Our results show a strong carbon uptake in Australia from the end of 2010 to mid‐2012. This uptake coincided with record‐breaking rainfall and consequent soil moisture increase that lead to increased growth of vegetation


Don't forget that all I need to show is that 2010 was not a typical year and that whatsupwiththat were cherry picking their data. This I have proved.

So. have you got any data from any year other than 2010?
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #52 - Dec 28th, 2019 at 1:34pm
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
on't forget that all I need to show is that 2010 was not a typical year and that whatsupwiththat were cherry picking their data.



No petal.

What don't you understand about the end of 2010? Wink

What didn't you understand about the blue line (CO2 flux)?

...

It was falling. Not rising.

Now how about you discuss the science instead of hiding behind the Watts boogeyman. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #53 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 9:58am
 
from your own link

Quote:
Based on the calculated 3 monthly fluxes in Figure 4, we estimate the strength of the enhancement of the carbon sink to be roughly 0.21 ± 0.03 Pg C yr−1 or 0.41 ± 0.05 Pg C for the whole period of April 2010 to December 2011, which corresponds to 7% of the total multiyear (1990–2011) average GPP of the Australian biosphere and 270% of the average annual net ecosystem production



Now clearly 2010 was not a typical year which has been unscientifically cherry picked by whatsupwiththat.com


I will ask you once again.
Do you have any evidence that Australia is a carbon sink other than a cherry picked 2010  Wink
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #54 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:20am
 
Also from your link

Quote:
5 Conclusions

Our results show a significant change in the carbon uptake in Australia during the La Niña phase from the end of 2010 to early 2012. Due to the record‐breaking rainfall, large‐scale vegetation growth occurred in the arid central region, leading to a strong carbon uptake by the land biosphere of roughly 0.21 ± 0.03 Pg C yr−1 or 0.41 ± 0.05 Pg C for the whole period of April 2010 to December 2011, corresponding to 270% of the total annual net ecosystem production.


Thanks lee for proving yourself wrong  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #55 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:33am
 
lee wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 1:34pm:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 28th, 2019 at 12:38pm:
on't forget that all I need to show is that 2010 was not a typical year and that whatsupwiththat were cherry picking their data.



No petal.

What don't you understand about the end of 2010? Wink

What didn't you understand about the blue line (CO2 flux)?

It was falling. Not rising.


Now how about you discuss the science instead of hiding behind the Watts boogeyman. Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin



I suggest you look up what a negative carbon flux is  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #56 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:41am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:33am:
I suggest you look up what a negative carbon flux is


You mean like this from Europe? Grin Grin Grin Grin

"Negative fluxes (blue regions) indicate places where uptake of CO2 occurs. Positive fluxes (red colors) indicate places where emission of CO2 occurs. "

https://www.carbontracker.eu/fluxmaps.php

Of course Australia may be diametrically opposed. Wink

The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:20am:
Our results show a significant change in the carbon uptake in Australia


Now reread the post about negative fluxes again. Wink

Why don't you like the CSIRO anymore petal? They failed to back up your misquotes? Grin Grin Grin Grin
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #57 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:47am
 
lee wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:41am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:33am:
I suggest you look up what a negative carbon flux is


You mean like this from Europe? Grin Grin Grin Grin

"Negative fluxes (blue regions) indicate places where uptake of CO2 occurs. Positive fluxes (red colors) indicate places where emission of CO2 occurs. "

Of course Australia may be diametrically opposed. Wink



Wow lee
Even when you are shown to be completely wrong you still can't admit it
I guess this proves you are just a troll
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #58 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 11:19am
 
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:47am:
lee wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:41am:
The_Barnacle wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 10:33am:
I suggest you look up what a negative carbon flux is


You mean like this from Europe? Grin Grin Grin Grin

"Negative fluxes (blue regions) indicate places where uptake of CO2 occurs. Positive fluxes (red colors) indicate places where emission of CO2 occurs. "

Of course Australia may be diametrically opposed. Wink



Wow lee
Even when you are shown to be completely wrong you still can't admit it
I guess this proves you are just a troll

I don't  think it has been established that human CO2 is the Lord if the Rings of the climate, the one little component that rules over all others.

I find the endless attempts to enthrone it as such a ruler of the climate ridiculous.
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Vladimir: That’s what you think.
 
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Re: Climate Change: Why Australia needs to do NOTHING!
Reply #59 - Dec 29th, 2019 at 11:25am
 
Frank wrote on Dec 29th, 2019 at 11:19am:
I don't  think it has been established that human CO2 is the Lord if the Rings of the climate, the one little component that rules over all others.

I find the endless attempts to enthrone it as such a ruler of the climate ridiculous.


Name one other component that has changed over the past 150 years?

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