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Abo recognition referendum (Read 16464 times)
Redmond Neck
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Abo recognition referendum
Jul 13th, 2019 at 11:31am
 
What are your thoughts on the governments chances of getting this up!

None and SFA in my opinion!

A bit more here on the voice in parliament idea


https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/morrison-to-veto-voice-as-part-...

Morrison to veto ‘voice’ as part of Constitution

Scott Morrison will veto any move to enshrine an Aboriginal “voice to parliament” in the Constitution, urging his government to pursue indigenous recognition without supporting all the recommendations in the Uluru Statement from the Heart.

The Australian has been told the Prime Minister remains ­opposed to enshrining the voice in the Constitution, a move he ­declared last year would create a “third chamber” to parliament.

Minister for Indigenous Australians Ken Wyatt, who was elevated to cabinet by Mr Morrison after the election, declared in a landmark speech on Wednesday that the government would consider creating a voice to parliament through legislation, and left the door open to enshrining it in the Constitution.

Senior government sources said yesterday Mr Morrison would not support a constitutionally enshrined indigenous advisory body. He would consider backing a national body that would bring existing indigenous organisations together through legislation, while also seeking to build a consensus position on constitutional recognition.

“A voice to parliament ­enshrined in the Constitution is not going to happen on his watch,” a government source said.

The move risks a brawl with Labor and key indigenous figures but is aimed at encouraging them to shift their support away from full adoption of the 2017 Uluru Statement from the Heart, which includes constitutional enshrinement of a voice.

Mr Wyatt told The Australian yesterday that indigenous people could have “multiple voices” to the parliament — including the nation’s most disadvantaged and remote indigenous people — without having a voice enshrined in the Constitution.

“I think most people I talk to are not asking for the voice to be enshrined in the Constitution,” Mr Wyatt said.

“They want to be heard. It’s not just one voice. It’s not just one model. I want to hear from Aboriginal people in the regions as to what they want.

“We’ve got to consider the range of ways in which the voice has meaning. We have to focus on what the pragmatic realities are that are going to make a difference to the lives of indigenous Australians.”

GRAPHIC: The long road to recognition

Asked if he believed a voice to parliament needed to be in the Constitution in order to be effective, Mr Wyatt replied: “I don’t think it does.”

He said people spoke about the issue “at a national level but we are not listening to voices at the community level”.

“If we enshrined the voice in the Constitution it is not going to change what I have just ­described,” he said.

Indigenous academic Marcia Langton said the voice needed to be constitutionally enshrined to prevent it from being dismantled. She cited the Howard government’s decision to abolish the ­Aboriginal and Torres Strait ­Islander Commission in 2005.

“Going back to the 1970s, there is a long history of it,” Professor Langton said. “No effort to ­involve indigenous people in the government system has survived very long. They have always been abolished after one or two terms.

“It is one of the reasons why policies fail over and over again.”

Labor senator Pat Dodson, who would have been indigenous affairs minister if Bill Shorten had won the election, said Labor should not waver in its commitment to the recommendations from the Uluru Statement from the Heart, which was handed down by the federal government’s Referendum Council two years ago. He said Mr Wyatt would “not be keeping faith” with supporters of the Uluru statement if he ­refused to take a constitutionally enshrined voice to a referendum.

“People at Uluru wanted some kind of permanency and stability in the entity that gets to represent their views to the parliament,” Senator Dodson said.

Referendum Council co-chair Patricia Anderson said a constitutionally enshrined voice was the “only viable option” for indigenous recognition.

“The consensus at the dialogues and Uluru was to rule out symbolism,” Ms Anderson said. “Symbolism won’t close the gap. The consensus outcome was a constitutionally enshrined voice to the parliament.”

Anthony Albanese yesterday declared it was “realistic and ­doable” to hold a successful referendum on constitutional recognition in this term of parliament.

When asked if he thought it would be difficult to enshrine a voice into the Constitution, the Opposition Leader said he was ­optimistic about “getting an ­outcome”.

“I hope that this change happens during this parliament and I have offered to work constructively with Prime Minister Morrison,” Mr Albanese said.

“That’s the commitment from Labor to make sure that we get an outcome, not just any outcome, an outcome that has the support of indigenous Australians.”

Opposition spokeswoman for indigenous Australians Linda Burney said Labor would push the government to adopt the recommendations from the Uluru ­statement. But she indicated Labor could be willing to amend its ­position during the “co-design” process, if it ensured bipartisan support for constitutional recognition.

“Labor’s position at the ­moment is that we embrace the Uluru statement in its entirety,” Ms Burney said.

Cont
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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!
 
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Brian Ross
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #1 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 11:55am
 
Unfortunately, I suspect you're right.

There are important issues here - particularly those of the Indigenous people who feel they have been slighted for the last 200+ years of White settlement.  They have been treated as fauna for the most part and even after recognition as human beings, they have still not seen real recognition of their rights as the original custodians of the land.  Native Title attempts to address it but as the recent case in South Australia showed over the nuclear waste dump vote, only partially.

There is also the important point - Parliament is supreme in Australia.   It only has the Constitution above it.   A voice to Parliament could be designed into the present system but only with considerable difficulty and of course it would diminish Parliament's powers.   MPs are never going to allow that to happen.   Just as in the Republic, what is was important was how the el Presidente' was to be elected.   The Parliament wanted it to be them who did the choosing, the people wanted it to be them.   Parliament was never going to allow an alternative powerbase to be created.  So the Republic died.  So the voice to Parliament will die.

While I feel there should be some form of Constitutional Recognition of Indigenous Australians that is a basically a separate issue and can be addressed more easily in the form of a rewording of the introduction to the Constitution.  Something that acknowledges their existence and their custodianship of the land before the arrival of the Whites.

Australia is supposed to be about equality.  What we need is for the Government(s) to stop pussyfooting 'round about it and actually work towards closing the gap and helping the Indigenous people to be full Australian citizens with equal access to health care and so on.  They need help to rebuild their lives, real help.   Something many here continually decry unfortunately, preferring them to continue to live in squalor and violence.

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #2 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 12:14pm
 
Apparently there are indigenous people who feel they have been slighted over the last 200+ years. Dems old people, dere.
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Redmond Neck
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #3 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 12:17pm
 
Even if it is just another bullshit feel nice statement towards ABOs I just think it will be a precurser to them wanting more. They will never be satisfied imo.

For this reason I think whiteys will say no as lots are of the opinion that ABOs are reasonably well looked after with all the money thrown at them already!



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BAN ALL THESE ABO SITES RECOGNITIONS.

ALL AUSTRALIA IS FOR ALL AUSTRALIANS!
 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #4 - Jul 13th, 2019 at 12:31pm
 
Loads of people are unemployed, there's a drug epidemic and  a high male suicide rate. Plus a load of other issues. Now we have another leftie issue coming out of the unis and inner cities which fixes nothing.
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Mattyfisk
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #5 - Jul 16th, 2019 at 10:02pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 13th, 2019 at 12:31pm:
Loads of people are unemployed, there's a drug epidemic and  a high male suicide rate. Plus a load of other issues. Now we have another leftie issue coming out of the unis and inner cities which fixes nothing.


I could not agree more. Why do you think Mr Abbott introduced the idea?

Pathetic, leftards, just pathetic.
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Brian Ross
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #6 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm
 
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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #7 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #8 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:08pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?


I believe they need their rights to be observed by the latter arrivals, Hammer.   How about you?  What do you think?   It appears you haven't actually read the article I linked to, have you?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

What about the Swedish for instance. It's their native land. Should the average Swede  have more rights than migrants?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #9 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:17pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?


I believe they need their rights to be observed by the latter arrivals, Hammer.   How about you?  What do you think?   It appears you haven't actually read the article I linked to, have you?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

What about the Swedish for instance. It's their native land. Should the average Swede  have more rights than migrants?


Nope.  They should have equal rights, just as Indigenous Australians should have equal rights to white colonist descended Australians, Hammer.  Do you believe Indigenous Australians have equal rights that are observed by Government(s)?

I note you failed to answer my questions.  Why?

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #10 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:22pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:17pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?


I believe they need their rights to be observed by the latter arrivals, Hammer.   How about you?  What do you think?   It appears you haven't actually read the article I linked to, have you?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

What about the Swedish for instance. It's their native land. Should the average Swede  have more rights than migrants?


Nope.  They should have equal rights, just as Indigenous Australians should have equal rights to white colonist descended Australians, Hammer.  Do you believe Indigenous Australians have equal rights that are observed by Government(s)?

I note you failed to answer my questions.  Why?


They do have equal rights Brian. What's something I can do that they can't?
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Brian Ross
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #11 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:27pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:17pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?


I believe they need their rights to be observed by the latter arrivals, Hammer.   How about you?  What do you think?   It appears you haven't actually read the article I linked to, have you?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

What about the Swedish for instance. It's their native land. Should the average Swede  have more rights than migrants?


Nope.  They should have equal rights, just as Indigenous Australians should have equal rights to white colonist descended Australians, Hammer.  Do you believe Indigenous Australians have equal rights that are observed by Government(s)?

I note you failed to answer my questions.  Why?


They do have equal rights Brian. What's something I can do that they can't?


You can inherit your ancestor's lands, Hammer.  They can't, except through a complex legal system which is designed to slot their rights in with the land rights of White descended Coloials.   Funny that. 

Oh, and you can say, "No Trespassers Allowed" and put up fences and so on, to stop them coming onto your land, legally.   Indigenous Australians just get endless criticism from White people, funny that.   

Oh, and if you're sick, you can toddle of to your local doctor/health centre/hospital.  Indigenous Australians can't usually do that if they live on their land.  Funny that, hey?   Roll Eyes

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Someone said we could not judge a person's Aboriginality on their skin colour.  Why isn't that applied in the matter of Pascoe?  Tsk, tsk, tsk...   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #12 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:31pm
 
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:27pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:22pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:17pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:08pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:07pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:50pm:
Brian Ross wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 5:47pm:

Do you believe that people who's ancestors  get to a country first deserve extra rights   Brian?


I believe they need their rights to be observed by the latter arrivals, Hammer.   How about you?  What do you think?   It appears you haven't actually read the article I linked to, have you?  Tsk, tsk.   Roll Eyes

What about the Swedish for instance. It's their native land. Should the average Swede  have more rights than migrants?


Nope.  They should have equal rights, just as Indigenous Australians should have equal rights to white colonist descended Australians, Hammer.  Do you believe Indigenous Australians have equal rights that are observed by Government(s)?

I note you failed to answer my questions.  Why?


They do have equal rights Brian. What's something I can do that they can't?


You can inherit your ancestor's lands, Hammer.  They can't, except through a complex legal system which is designed to slot their rights in with the land rights of White descended Coloials.   Funny that. 

Oh, and you can say, "No Trespassers Allowed" and put up fences and so on, to stop them coming onto your land, legally.   Indigenous Australians just get endless criticism from White people, funny that.   

Oh, and if you're sick, you can toddle of to your local doctor/health centre/hospital.  Indigenous Australians can't usually do that if they live on their land.  Funny that, hey?   Roll Eyes


They live in middle of nowhere Brian. Do you want a little hospital built on every aboriginal settlement out in the bush? I can't inherit all the land my ancestors owned muppet. Or I'd own a big patch in Ireland.
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John Smith
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #13 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:34pm
 
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:31pm:
Or I'd own a big patch in Ireland.



i didn't think the cells were that big in Ireland  Cheesy Cheesy
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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.
 
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Mr Hammer
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Re: Abo recognition referendum
Reply #14 - Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:37pm
 
John Smith wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:34pm:
Mr Hammer wrote on Jul 19th, 2019 at 6:31pm:
Or I'd own a big patch in Ireland.



i didn't think the cells were that big in Ireland  Cheesy Cheesy

At least I've got some. Your white ones have been decimated  by HIV.
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