Australian Politics Forum - New hydrogen tank break through

barryfromthebush Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 702 Bum Chum Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #210 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 7:05am juliar wrote on Sep 19^th, 2019 at 7:01pm: And just for light relief https://i.postimg.cc/MKNrBqgY/resizer.jpg An unsafe dangerous 2018 Tesla X writhing in agony as it burns to a crisp!!!! SHUTUP RETARD
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barryfromthebush

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #211 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 7:05am

juliar wrote on Sep 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

Hydrogen here there and everywhere.

When will ScoMo jump on the Hydrogen band wagon ?

Germany's hydrogen stations exceed US; California beats Japan on density
John Voelcker JOHN VOELCKER FEBRUARY 21, 2018

As of today, there are 39 hydrogen fueling stations in the U.S., all but four of them in the state of California.

They serve roughly 39 million Californians, whereas 284 million Americans outside the state have no access to hydrogen fuel-cell cars nor stations at which to refill them.

Germany, on the other hand, has 83 million residents—and 45 hydrogen fueling stations that are accessible to the public (though some require prior notice).

DON'T MISS: GM suggests Congress fund EV charging, Toyota asks for hydrogen fueling support

Japan leads the way on hydrogen stations, however, which is hardly surprising given that two of the three makers now offering hydrogen vehicles to the public are from that country.

That country now has 91 hydrogen stations, according to an assessment by H2Stations reported by FuelCellWorks last Wednesday, to serve a population of 127 million people.

The article notes that Germany had the highest rate of increase last year, adding 24 operating stations to the 2016 total of 21.

https://i.postimg.cc/rsFfqWSj/2016-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-newport-b...
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell, 2016 Toyota Mirai at hydrogen fueling station, Fountain Valley, CA

Another way to put the numbers into perspective is by land mass: California has 164,000 square miles, Japan has 146,000 square miles, and Germany has 138,000.

Summarized, Germany has 45 stations in the most compact area, serving twice as many people as the 35 now operating in California.

Japan's 91 hydrogen stations serve three times as many people as California's 35.

It struck us a useful metric might be to calculate the number of hydrogen stations spread over the product of the number of residents and area served.

Those results provide a somewhat different story on the relative density of hydrogen stations versus the overall number.

Even after accounting for its larger area, California has the highest number of hydrogen stations per trillion residents per square mile: 5.5 as of today.

https://i.postimg.cc/gJVGCwpN/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-100622116-l.jpg
Mercedes-Benz GLC F-Cell

The comparable figure for Japan is 4.9, and Germany lags somewhat at 3.9. (Though some may argue the stations should be considered only by population, not by both people and area, which is a justifiable position.)

Other factors make this analysis loose at best: California may have more drivers among its residents than Germany or Japan, which have the functioning mass-transit networks that the Golden State lacks.

Both California and Japan also include substantial regions of uninhabited mountainous terrain, however, with their populations more concentrated on the coasts.

Still, as Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota soon to produce thousands of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles a year for public sale or lease, the question of fuel availability will remain key to their potential for adoption.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115396_germanys-hydrogen-stations-exceed-u...

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barryfromthebush

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #212 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 7:06am

juliar wrote on Sep 19^th, 2019 at 6:55pm:

Hydrogen here there and everywhere.

When will ScoMo jump on the Hydrogen band wagon ?

Germany's hydrogen stations exceed US; California beats Japan on density
John Voelcker JOHN VOELCKER FEBRUARY 21, 2018

As of today, there are 39 hydrogen fueling stations in the U.S., all but four of them in the state of California.

They serve roughly 39 million Californians, whereas 284 million Americans outside the state have no access to hydrogen fuel-cell cars nor stations at which to refill them.

Germany, on the other hand, has 83 million residents—and 45 hydrogen fueling stations that are accessible to the public (though some require prior notice).

DON'T MISS: GM suggests Congress fund EV charging, Toyota asks for hydrogen fueling support

Japan leads the way on hydrogen stations, however, which is hardly surprising given that two of the three makers now offering hydrogen vehicles to the public are from that country.

That country now has 91 hydrogen stations, according to an assessment by H2Stations reported by FuelCellWorks last Wednesday, to serve a population of 127 million people.

The article notes that Germany had the highest rate of increase last year, adding 24 operating stations to the 2016 total of 21.

https://i.postimg.cc/rsFfqWSj/2016-toyota-mirai-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-newport-b...
2015 Hyundai Tucson Fuel Cell, 2016 Toyota Mirai at hydrogen fueling station, Fountain Valley, CA

Another way to put the numbers into perspective is by land mass: California has 164,000 square miles, Japan has 146,000 square miles, and Germany has 138,000.

Summarized, Germany has 45 stations in the most compact area, serving twice as many people as the 35 now operating in California.

Japan's 91 hydrogen stations serve three times as many people as California's 35.

It struck us a useful metric might be to calculate the number of hydrogen stations spread over the product of the number of residents and area served.

Those results provide a somewhat different story on the relative density of hydrogen stations versus the overall number.

Even after accounting for its larger area, California has the highest number of hydrogen stations per trillion residents per square mile: 5.5 as of today.

https://i.postimg.cc/gJVGCwpN/mercedes-benz-glc-f-cell-100622116-l.jpg
Mercedes-Benz GLC F-Cell

The comparable figure for Japan is 4.9, and Germany lags somewhat at 3.9. (Though some may argue the stations should be considered only by population, not by both people and area, which is a justifiable position.)

Other factors make this analysis loose at best: California may have more drivers among its residents than Germany or Japan, which have the functioning mass-transit networks that the Golden State lacks.

Both California and Japan also include substantial regions of uninhabited mountainous terrain, however, with their populations more concentrated on the coasts.

Still, as Honda, Hyundai, and Toyota soon to produce thousands of hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles a year for public sale or lease, the question of fuel availability will remain key to their potential for adoption.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1115396_germanys-hydrogen-stations-exceed-u...

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barryfromthebush Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 702 Bum Chum Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #213 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 7:06am juliar wrote on Sep 19^th, 2019 at 6:18pm: Bobby must be thinking of electric bikes and scooters you see on the footpath. SHUTUP RETARD
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barryfromthebush

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #214 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 7:07am

juliar wrote on Sep 19^th, 2019 at 6:14pm:

As future gazers like me have been predicting, in China they are already abandoning the useless dangerous very inconvenient dirty pollution spewing electric toy cars.

SHUTUP RETARD

China’s Electric Vehicle Industry Hit Hard by Policy Shift as Beijing Turns Toward Hydrogen Fuel
BY OLIVIA LI, EPOCH TIMES April 12, 2019 Updated: April 16, 2019Share

https://img.theepochtimes.com/assets/uploads/2019/04/12/GettyImages-1083068228-7...
Electric cars charge at a Sinopec service station in Hangzhou, in China's eastern Zhejiang province on Jan. 14, 2019. The service station is one of the first in the country to offer petrol, compressed natural gas (CNG) and electric car charging service. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)

China’s electric vehicle (EV) industry has been booming for nearly a decade, with generous subsidies from the Chinese government and state-sponsored marketing efforts.

However, the research and development (R&D) subsidies are now shifting to vehicles with hydrogen fuel cells, a new technology that, according to industry, is cleaner and more efficient than lithium battery-run cars. Current EV automakers in China will have to face the cruel reality: The EV industry will soon suffer financial losses with the disappearance of state support.

Chinese Regime Shifting Subsidies
On March 26, China’s Ministry of Finance, Ministry of Science and Technology, and other agencies jointly announced changes to the subsidy program for lithium battery-powered electric cars, slashing subsidies by 67 percent.

Electric cars with driving ranges of 400 kilometers (250 miles) and above will be cut by half, to 25,000 yuan ($3,700) per vehicle, from 50,000 yuan. And to qualify for any subsidy, electric cars need to have a range of at least 250 kilometers, compared with 150 kilometers previously.

In addition, subsidies for EV vehicles will be phased out completely after 2020.

The Trigger: Li’s Trip to Japan
Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s visit to Japan in 2018 fundamentally changed his thinking about electric vehicles.

Li visited Toyota Motor Corp.’s factory for manufacturing EV auto parts in Hokkaido on May 11, 2018, and saw a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle called “MIRAI.” He learned that the MIRAI, which takes only three to four minutes to fuel, has a 650 kilometer (404 miles) driving range.

According to several Chinese media reports, upon Li’s return to China, several ministries and commissions in China quickly assembled a team to develop hydrogen fuel-cell technology, the first signal that China’s policymakers would make the fuel cells a major R&D project.

A lithium battery has several drawbacks when compared with a hydrogen fuel cell, which uses hydrogen gas as power.

Lithium batteries contain heavy metals such as nickel, cobalt, and manganese, and the mining process to extract such metals can cause pollution to nearby water sources. Meanwhile, processing of copper, lithium, and other metals create toxic waste that, if not treated and recycled properly, can cause serious environmental problems.

On March 15, China’s cabinet-like State Council publicized 83 amendments to its annual Government Work Report delivered before its rubber-stamp legislature. Among them was a provision to promote the construction of infrastructure related to electric and hydrogen fuel-cell technology. At the time, there were no additional policy details, but it was the first time that hydrogen fuel was included in the report.

Eleven days later, the Chinese government announced the new EV subsidy policies.

On April 11, the state-run, English-language newspaper China Daily reported that the central authorities’ development plan for hydrogen fuel technology set targets of getting 5,000 hydrogen energy vehicles on the road by 2020, 50,000 by 2025, and 1 million by 2030.

Subsidy Reductions
China’s EV automakers are already losing money.

For example, Chinese automaker BYD is a star brand in the domestic market. BYD started new energy vehicle (NEV) R&D 10 years ago.

According to Chinese news portal Sohu, citing information from BYD’s financial reports, in the past five years, the company has received a total of 6.93 billion yuan ($1.03 billion) in electric vehicle subsidies from the Chinese regime.

But the industry’s profitability was already falling. In BYD’s 2018 annual report released on March 27, the company’s net profit attributable to shareholders was 2.78 billion yuan, down 31.6 percent from the previous year. BYD explained that decline was mainly due to the reduction in subsidies and increases in R&D costs.

In early March, NIO (known as Shanghai Weilai Automobile in Chinese), which specializes in making electric autonomous vehicles and became publicly listed only half a year ago, reported revenue of 4.951 billion yuan ($738 million) in 2018 while net losses were 9.639 billion yuan ($1.44 billion). In addition, NIO also announced that it would cancel plans to build a new plant in Shanghai.

Read the rest of the closing down of the useless electric toy junk cars here

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinas-electric-vehicle-industry-hit-hard-by-sudde...

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juliar

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #215 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:09am

Strewth the wackos are out in force. Wonder what their problem is ? Offended by FACTS ?

Don't like the FACT that China is going full tilt into hydrogen now ?

BazzaFromTheScrub must be heading towards a well needed suspension. What a drongo, copies my excellent post about 5 times for no purpose whatsoever and adds a line of silly dribble to hold her sick mind up for ridicule.

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #216 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:18am Nobody here likes you. It is obvious you are a (poor) oil industry shill. You should be back at school, doing grade 5 for the third time.
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juliar

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #217 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:32am

Now to shake the weirdohs out of their trees as China swings over to the ultimate future Hydrogen energy.

And the dopey Munkee a worn out Greeny displays how ignorant he really is. He was not the full quid when he was here before until he got suspended which was a great relief to all. A classic dumb Greeny. Should be out marching to nowhere before the world ends.

It must be dull being a drongo like these weirdohs.

Beijing wants 100,000 hydrogen cars by 2025. Lured by government incentives and research, manufacturers are rushing to set up production plants
By ASIA TIMES STAFF MARCH 25, 2019

Hydrogen vehicles do not need recharging and have zero carbon emissions. Photo: Weibo

China expects to have 100,000 cars powered by clean-burning hydrogen cells on its roads within five to six years as it challenges such countries as Japan and South Korea for dominance of the emerging carbon-free automotive markets.

There are already more electric vehicles in China than anywhere else, but an expert in new energy sources with the Chinese Academy of Sciences told Xinhua that the

research and production focus was now shifting to hydrogen fuel cells. With their outstanding energy-conversion efficiency and zero carbon emissions, the cells are tipped to replace fossil-fuel engines and rechargeable batteries as the global power source for transport.

The blueprint for the program will be China’s successful marketing of electric cars: There were almost none 10 years ago, but a million electric and hybrid cars were sold to the public and private sectors last year, more than the rest of the world combined.

They use lithium-ion packs, which need to be recharged every 350-600 kilometers. In contrast, fuel cells generate their own electricity when hydrogen interacts with oxygen and do not need charging. Instead, they have hydrogen tanks that can hold far more energy, while the only byproducts are heat and water.

A prototype of a hydrogen bus developed by China’s Youngman Automobile. Photo: Handout

Beijing aims to add 30,000 “clean” vehicles in 30 cities each year from 2019, mostly powered by hydrogen, with the initial emphasis likely to be on public transportation. The government has invested more than US$12 billion in fuel cell technologies.

Lured by government research and production subsidies, domestic automakers such as Great Wall Motor, Yutong Bus and Foton Motor have rushed into the promising hydrogen automotive sector since last year. Changchun-based First Automobile Work, China’s oldest carmaker, has announced plans to mass-produce a fuel-cell version of its flagship marque Hongqi this year.

A 12 billion yuan (US$1.77 billion) hydrogen automobile plant is also being built in Guangdong province, backed by Hong Kong business magnate Li Ka-shing. Production will start by the end of this year, with an annual output of 160,000 units expected within five years.

Chinese policymakers may also offer incentives to accelerate the construction of fueling stations for hydrogen cars, according to China Security Times. There are currently only 12 functioning stations.

Methanol-powered taxis being used in China. Photo: Xinhua

Some earlier versions of hydrogen-powered cars are already on the road, such as the Toyota Mirai and Honda Clarity, but the fuel they carry is expensive, volatile and prone to explode. To overcome these problems, the University of Science and Technology of China said this year that it had invented a new catalyst capable of preventing highly flammable hydrogen fuel cells from overheating.

A research team with the university’s School of Chemistry and Materials Science said the catalyst would prevent cells from being affected by carbon monoxide and allow for the manufacturing of high-purity hydrogen at a time when the costs of making fuel cells and building and running hydrogen pipelines and fueling stations are still prohibitive. The battery would be able to work with temperature changes.

Older vehicles may be converted to hydrogen as technologies become available. In one notable breakthrough, Chinese researchers have adapted methanol, an alcohol made easily from coal, to hydrogen gas so it can power cars. The methanol releases hydrogen and carbon dioxide when it comes into contact with water, and the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Coal Chemistry has developed a way to get a faster reaction under normal temperatures by using a device that can fit into a compact car.

The reaction chamber has a volume of only about 100 milliliters, and the vehicle can carry two fuel tanks – one for methanol and a smaller one for water – according to Xinhua and the South China Morning Post.

https://www.asiatimes.com/2019/03/article/beijing-wants-100000-hydrogen-cars-by-...

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juliar

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #218 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:41am

Now to set off the drongos once again being sent nutty by exposure to high concentrations of carbon dioxide.

Wan Gang, China’s father of electric cars, thinks hydrogen is the future
Bloomberg Published: 7:16am, 13 Jun, 2019

The man who convinced Beijing to bet on electric vehicles says it’s time for the car industry’s next game-changing moment.

Hydrogen fuel cells have struggled to gain traction due to high costs and other factors, but China can change that by making them a national priority

Wan Gang, China's former minister of science and technology, during a press conference in Hong Kong in May 2018. Photo: Felix Wong

His vision to make China an electric-vehicle powerhouse revolutionised the global car industry, cementing a move away from the combustion engine. Now, Wan Gang says get ready for the next game-changing moment.

The world’s biggest car market is set to embrace hydrogen fuel-cell vehicles the way it did EVs, Wan, who’s been called the father of China’s electric car movement, said in a rare interview in Beijing on June 9.

A former Audi executive who went on to become China’s science-and-technology minister, Wan convinced leaders two decades ago to bet on the then-untested technology of vehicle electrification, selling it not only as a way to boost economic growth but also to tackle China’s dependence on oil imports and its mounting levels of pollution.

His strategy – using government subsidies to bring carmakers and drivers on board – made China home to one of every two EVs sold globally today.

A Toyota hydrogen fuel-cell concept car, the FCV PLUS, on display at the Auto China show in Beijing in April 2016. Photo: Reuters

And now it is hydrogen’s turn, Wan said.

“We should look into establishing a hydrogen society,” said Wan, 66, who is now a vice-chairman of China’s national advisory body for policymaking, a role that ranks higher than a minister and gives him a voice in the nation’s future planning. “We need to move further toward fuel cells.”

That means the government will commit resources to developing such vehicles, he said. While China plans to phase out the long-time subsidy program for the maturing EV industry next year, government funding for fuel-cell vehicles may stay in place to some extent, Wan said.
Despite the backing of industry giants such as Toyota and the benefits of fuel-cell vehicles – they refuel faster and are more suitable for driving long distances than all-electric vehicles – the technology has not caught on amid expensive prices.

South Korea, Hyundai bet big on hydrogen technology
But China has the muscle to change all that should it make hydrogen-powered vehicles a national priority – the type of turning point the industry has been waiting decades for.
For Wan – a mechanical engineer trained in Germany – the shift toward hydrogen is a natural step in realising a vision of having electric cars dominate inner-city traffic, while buses and trucks filled with hydrogen tanks roam the nation’s motorways for long-distance travel.
The adoption of fuel-cell vehicles has been slow in spite of China having an abundant supply of hydrogen, Wan said. There are only about 1,500 such vehicles in use there today, compared with more than two million purely electric vehicles, he said.

South Korean President Moon Jae-in (centre) is briefed on a hydrogen charging station in Changwon, South Korea, on June 5. Photo: EPA-EFE

It is not just China. Hydrogen fuel cells have struggled to gain traction worldwide not just because of high costs – one of the key components is platinum – but also because of the lack of infrastructure and the complexity of storing hydrogen.
Then there’s the matter of hydrogen’s flammability, as evidenced by the recent fire at a refuelling station in Norway.
“We will sort out the factors that have been hindering the development of fuel-cell vehicles,” Wan said.
Efforts are under way in Japan, which plans to increase the number of fuel-cell vehicles on its roads to 40,000 by 2020 – though BloombergNEF estimates sales so far are not close to that target.
In Europe, Daimler’s Mercedes-Benz unit rolled out a fuel-cell version of its popular GLC SUV. In the US, the California Fuel Cell Partnership is trying to promote the technology, with limited success.

Read on to see how Hydrogen will power the world

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/3014275/wan-gang-chinas-father-electric-...

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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #219 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:42am Security fence to keep the weirdohs out.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #220 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 9:55am The security fence has holes—you are still here posting crap.
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juliar

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Re: New hydrogen tank break through
Reply #221 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 10:10am

The silly old Munkee is even sillier than he was before he got suspended to the great relief of all. He is a twit A classic dumb Greeny full of Greeny and GetUp! propaganda.

Oh well the world is going to end soon anyway according to the LUNATIC EXTREMIST GREENIES.

And to keep the naysayers focused on how unsafe and dangerous electric toy cars are

How they usually end up - 2018 Tesla X rests in the electric toy car graveyard.

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« Last Edit: Sep 20^th, 2019 at 10:29am by juliar »

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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #222 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 10:51am Yet tens of thousands of Teslas and other EVs roll of production lines every month. The future of transport is EV.
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juliar Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 22966	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #223 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 11:57am Munkee you are like a disease - go away with your puerile Greeny GetUp! trash.
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Jovial Monk Gold Member Offline Dogs not cats! Posts: 51474 Gender:	Re: New hydrogen tank break through Reply #224 - Sep 20^th, 2019 at 1:53pm Your Mummy is looking for you—you spat the dummy.
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