Australian Politics Forum - Tonight - 4 Corners

Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #15 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:15am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:13am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:45am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:41am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:39am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 6:25pm:

Four Corners Guilty: The Conviction of Cardinal Pell

8:32PM - 9:18PM

CC

Reveals how Australia's highest ranking Catholic, Cardinal George Pell, was brought to justice. With the suppression order lifted on his conviction, the full story can now be told.

It turns out that I saw bits and pieces of this show when visiting a friend last night.

I noticed something a bit odd.

All of the victims and witnesses seem to be blue collar workers (or unemployed) who probably never stayed on past year 10 at school.

It seems to be a theme with these sort of things: witnesses interviewed at the scene of a crime; victims of crime; etc.

You never (or at least very rarely) see people in suits being portrayed as witnesses or victims in these TV shows. Never any doctors, lawyers, accountants or dentists, etc.

Just something I've noticed.

The witness in the Pell case is university educated with a family.

When you say witness, I gather you mean the victim.

Has he appeared on TV?

No, because he wants privacy. His evidence was given via video link.

So that fits in with what I'm saying, in general.

It seems to be the less educated people who want to go public and get in front of the TV cameras.

When you watch those stories on Channel 7 "News" about cars driving into swimming pools, you rarely see a businessman in a suit giving the eyewitness account.

Similarly, with cases like Pell's, the witnesses are usually less educated individuals in lower paying jobs, or even unemployed.

It's not an attack on or criticism of anyone in particular - it's just something I've noticed over the years, and that 4 Corners show last night reinforced my argument.

I guess the question is, why?

That bogans tend to want to go on TV more?

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #16 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:17am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:15am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:13am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:45am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:41am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 7:39am:

Bobby. wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 6:25pm:

Four Corners Guilty: The Conviction of Cardinal Pell

8:32PM - 9:18PM

CC

Reveals how Australia's highest ranking Catholic, Cardinal George Pell, was brought to justice. With the suppression order lifted on his conviction, the full story can now be told.

It turns out that I saw bits and pieces of this show when visiting a friend last night.

I noticed something a bit odd.

All of the victims and witnesses seem to be blue collar workers (or unemployed) who probably never stayed on past year 10 at school.

It seems to be a theme with these sort of things: witnesses interviewed at the scene of a crime; victims of crime; etc.

You never (or at least very rarely) see people in suits being portrayed as witnesses or victims in these TV shows. Never any doctors, lawyers, accountants or dentists, etc.

Just something I've noticed.

The witness in the Pell case is university educated with a family.

When you say witness, I gather you mean the victim.

Has he appeared on TV?

No, because he wants privacy. His evidence was given via video link.

So that fits in with what I'm saying, in general.

It seems to be the less educated people who want to go public and get in front of the TV cameras.

When you watch those stories on Channel 7 "News" about cars driving into swimming pools, you rarely see a businessman in a suit giving the eyewitness account.

Similarly, with cases like Pell's, the witnesses are usually less educated individuals in lower paying jobs, or even unemployed.

It's not an attack on or criticism of anyone in particular - it's just something I've noticed over the years, and that 4 Corners show last night reinforced my argument.

I guess the question is, why?

That bogans tend to want to go on TV more?

Yes.

Why do they love the camera so much?

I'd love to do a thesis on it.

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Sir Spot of Borg

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #17 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:32am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:05am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 8:31am:

I still dont know. I mean if their evidence after all these years is a few ppl who saw him in the changing room naked . . . . my father did that stuff. he would just stand there in all his glory not realising he was making ppl uncomfortable. some ppl are like that. It wasnt sexual molestation though was it. Seems to me more ppl would have come forward if this stuff happened. Perhaps that boy fingered the wrong person.

Spot

Why? Given how much poo has happened in this case, why would people risk it?

Risk what?

Spot

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #18 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:34am

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:32am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:05am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 8:31am:

I still dont know. I mean if their evidence after all these years is a few ppl who saw him in the changing room naked . . . . my father did that stuff. he would just stand there in all his glory not realising he was making ppl uncomfortable. some ppl are like that. It wasnt sexual molestation though was it. Seems to me more ppl would have come forward if this stuff happened. Perhaps that boy fingered the wrong person.

Spot

Why? Given how much poo has happened in this case, why would people risk it?

Risk what?

Spot

Humiliation, being accused of hysteria, of making it up etc etc.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #19 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:40am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:34am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:32am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:05am:

Sir Spot of Borg wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 8:31am:

I still dont know. I mean if their evidence after all these years is a few ppl who saw him in the changing room naked . . . . my father did that stuff. he would just stand there in all his glory not realising he was making ppl uncomfortable. some ppl are like that. It wasnt sexual molestation though was it. Seems to me more ppl would have come forward if this stuff happened. Perhaps that boy fingered the wrong person.

Spot

Why? Given how much poo has happened in this case, why would people risk it?

Risk what?

Spot

Humiliation, being accused of hysteria, of making it up etc etc.

Gets back to this, doesn't it?

"That bogans tend to want to go on TV more?"

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Prime Minister for Canyons Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 26906 Canberra Gender:	Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell Reply #20 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:51am More than likely, I posted the Guardian article as a response to some queries I have seen. It seems well thought and has me confident the trial was fair.
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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #21 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:55am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:51am:

More than likely, I posted the Guardian article as a response to some queries I have seen. It seems well thought and has me confident the trial was fair.

The article is ... meh, okay, but it doesn't answer the big question for me.

Why did Pell come back to Australia to face the charges?

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #22 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:57am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:55am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:51am:

More than likely, I posted the Guardian article as a response to some queries I have seen. It seems well thought and has me confident the trial was fair.

The article is ... meh, okay, but it doesn't answer the big question for me.

Why did Pell come back to Australia to face the charges?

Maybe his ego thought in terms of the old legal systems. It was one complainant so he thought the courts dont really allow that.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #23 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:57am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:55am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 9:51am:

More than likely, I posted the Guardian article as a response to some queries I have seen. It seems well thought and has me confident the trial was fair.

The article is ... meh, okay, but it doesn't answer the big question for me.

Why did Pell come back to Australia to face the charges?

Maybe his ego thought in terms of the old legal systems. It was one complainant so he thought the courts dont really allow that.

From your article:

"There were 14 witnesses called by prosecutors, all of them men. But there was only one firsthand witness who gave evidence – the complainant. A large part of the prosecution’s case necessarily hinged on his testimony. This is not at all unusual in sexual abuse trials which are known as “word on word” cases."

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #24 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #25 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:09am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

I don't buy it.

Why would anyone risk it?

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #26 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:29am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

I don't buy it.

Why would anyone risk it?

Argument from incredulity, just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it couldnt happen.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #27 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:36am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:29am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

I don't buy it.

Why would anyone risk it?

Argument from incredulity, just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it couldnt happen.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's extremely unlikely.

I've looked at this objectively, and with an open mind, all along.

I remove the names, genders, and locations.

I just look at the raw facts:

- A teenager says an adult sexually assaulted him

- The adult says he did no such thing

- No independent witnesses

- No forensic science

- The adult was living happily in another country, and was under no legal obligation to face the court in the country where the allegations have been made, but did so willingly

- Adult is found guilty.

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Prime Minister for Canyons

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #28 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:38am

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:29am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

I don't buy it.

Why would anyone risk it?

Argument from incredulity, just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it couldnt happen.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's extremely unlikely.

I've looked at this objectively, and with an open mind, all along.

I remove the names, genders, and locations.

I just look at the raw facts:

- A teenager says an adult sexually assaulted him

- The adult says he did no such thing

- No independent witnesses

- No forensic science

- The adult was living happily in another country, and was under no legal obligation to face the court in the country where the allegations have been made, but did so willingly

- Adult is found guilty.

Thats a extremely brief summary, not covering the details. Again, just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didnt happen.

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In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

No evidence whatsoever it can be attributed to George Orwell or Eric Arthur Blair (in fact the same guy)

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greggerypeccary

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Re: Tonight - 4 Corners - Cardinal Pell
Reply #29 - Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:45am

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:38am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:36am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:29am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:09am:

Prime Minister for Canyons wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:05am:

greggerypeccary wrote on Mar 5^th, 2019 at 10:03am:

I don't buy the ego/ignorance thing.

How many people, knowing that they're guilty of a crime in another country, would return to face the charges even if they were under no legal obligation to do so?

Very few, if any, I'd suggest.

Maybe again his ego thought he could get off it.

I don't buy it.

Why would anyone risk it?

Argument from incredulity, just because you don't buy it doesn't mean it couldnt happen.

I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's extremely unlikely.

I've looked at this objectively, and with an open mind, all along.

I remove the names, genders, and locations.

I just look at the raw facts:

- A teenager says an adult sexually assaulted him

- The adult says he did no such thing

- No independent witnesses

- No forensic science

- The adult was living happily in another country, and was under no legal obligation to face the court in the country where the allegations have been made, but did so willingly

- Adult is found guilty.

Thats a extremely brief summary, not covering the details. Again, just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean it didnt happen.

It covers the facts though, doesn't it?

And again, I'm not saying it didn't happen.

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