Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 6:12pm:


They do  - no free rides.
Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 6:12pm:


Yes petal. And Shareholders own the company. I know you find that concept difficult to grasp. Dividends are paid to shareholders, then in their capacity as individuals, separately from their being shareholders, they pay tax.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 3^rd, 2019 at 6:12pm:


You are he one insisted companies did not have to have shareholders.

Government sponsored tax evasion.

BigP wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 8:27am:


Tell it to the judge.....

BigP wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 9:14am:


Too true - like any case that relies on forensics in-depth and quantity, the ordinary person simply does not have the expertise to follow most of the argument, and arguments can be twisted and turned like a Kansas tornado... leaving juries and judges totally confused and ready to throw in the towel.

The answer could be a 'commission' of people who know this stuff backwards - but therein always lies the danger of stacking the bench, as usual.

Look at the endless round and round that goes on here to arrive at one point... 'companies pay company tax, individual shareholders pay personal income tax - not the same at all in any way' - it took days to arrive at that simple point.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 9:32am:


But they get their tax paid dividends included in their income, as they should. They get a credit for the tax paid.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 12:37pm:



If they have a credit they get it all of the excess back unless they owe the money elsewhere. Prior year taxes, Child Support.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 12:37pm:


As declared. They should get all the excess back same as PAYE and subject to the same conditions.

Grappler Racist Filth wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 12:37pm:


First you have to establish which ones are doing that. No need for a sledgehammer approach to those doing the right thing. 

But you are getting further away from your posted position.

"Of course it does - they feel an absolute entitlement to pay no taxes since they are investing and thus creating jobs and such... not  only that, but since they 'own' the company by investing, they feel that the company already paying company taxes (if it ever does) means they should not pay income tax on their personal earnings because that's 'double taxation'."

"Abolish dividend franking entirely for a start."

lee wrote on Mar 4^th, 2019 at 1:18pm:



No - they can get all or part depending on real income - the trouble is whether or not the income declared is real.  My position has been covered in endless comments on this subject, and I covered all that already.  One bit at a time in response to one question, please.  You cannot cherry pick one response and say that was the entirety of my stated position.

What you state is why I advocate expanding the ATO - so it can actually do its job.

Remember that approach they have - they have limited staff so they take a random selection of about one in ten - probably fewer than that these days.  When I worked for the Guv that random selection would remain in play for 1-3 years and then be changed for another... so it stands to reason that any individual business could never be included in the sample scrutinised.

Then on top of that the complexities of multiple income strands and accounting mean that many qualified people could make more money 'on the outside', and so there is a shortage of genuinely talented and trained staff to actually do the job.  The result is that many cases are just rubber-stamped after a shallow look and thus continue forever... too difficult ones are thrown in the too hard basket and just paid out, and the really big ones run the risk of long and drawn-out legal proceedings before a panel or a judge who does not know the ropes anyway, so it's a roll of the dice.

Hence Trump's minimum tax of 30% regardless... not sure how that went over there.  Probably thrown out of the house... also the need for a review of the rules to simplify the whole thing.

By contrast, the ATO has all records of every transaction of a PAYE worker - thus that worker can get nothing without it being for real.  Told yez all before - my last tax returns were auto-filled for me by the tax man - all I had to do was hit the button on the computer and it said  "XXX" for uniform maintenance... and so forth... bank interest and all...

So Jo and Joe Toiler on PAYE don't get away with anything.. only tradies and business do, and that is why that area needs to be cleaned up.

As for 'sledgehammers' - you need to read my posts on Your LifeChoices.... you'll see instantly that I stand up for pensioners and low income SFRs - REAL low income SFRs.... not the cheats.