Australian Politics Forum - Offgrid solar power

barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #15 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:02pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:27pm:

dear Barry,
you would have to be very careful about lead acid batteries.
They give off hydrogen gas when over charged which
can explode from the slightest spark or flame.

I would go for an approved lithium ion battery system
with proper, smart electronics controlling everything.

Hello Bobby.

Understand where you are coming from. I have also used FLA traction batteries in forklifts for years and understand the need for proper ventilation while gassing.

My concern with lithium batteries is the danger of fire if overcharged/out of balance. given I don't have an issue with space and would be building a proper shed to house the batteries I don't think the FLA batteries would be an issue.

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Bobby.

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #16 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:07pm

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:27pm:

dear Barry,
you would have to be very careful about lead acid batteries.
They give off hydrogen gas when over charged which
can explode from the slightest spark or flame.

I would go for an approved lithium ion battery system
with proper, smart electronics controlling everything.

Hello Bobby.

Understand where you are coming from. I have also used FLA traction batteries in forklifts for years and understand the need for proper ventilation while gassing.

My concern with lithium batteries is the danger of fire if overcharged/out of balance. given I don't have an issue with space and would be building a proper shed to house the batteries I don't think the FLA batteries would be an issue.

If you buy lead acid batteries where you can take the top caps
off each cell while they are charging and have a look -
you can see when you've got a bad cell about to cause trouble -
it will be gassing far more than the other cells.

You need a ventilation system to get rid of any hydrogen gas.
That fan will waste some of the energy.

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barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #17 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:15pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:16pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:03pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 4:58pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

Why would you? how many times have you been without power and for how long and what has been the inconvenience, the power companies pay compensation after being without power for any significant length of time.
Sola panels are a must but batteries cost megabux and have to be replaced, as yet they are not proven as to how long they will last and if they will blowup.
A good generator to run the essentials for $700 is the go if you can't do without power.

I like being self sufficient. Pay off time is 5 years at current power prices. Flooded Lead Acid are not as dear as you would expect and if you take care of them the will last a lot longer than 5 years by which time you are ahead.

EDIT: Ive already got a diesel 3 phase genny that will run the whole house and shed.

What would be the outlay for you to get the power you need? solar panels and batteries included. I hear it takes a lot longer than 5yrs to get your money back.

Roughly $2300 for the panels (I get a good deal buying in bulk for pumps) $2900 for the inverter/charger and $2700 for 600AH of FLA batteries. Power bill at the moment is about $500 a quarter including workshop. given most of the use is in the day I can run directly off solar most of time without worrying about battery draw down.

I got priced on a system from a local solar installer and they wanted $17k installed for a 20kwh system but with only like 3kw of panels, doing it yourself saves a shite load.

So it is only $2,700 for the battery you need?

for 600AH at 48v using 12v cells its about $2750 plus GST

this would give me 28KWH too full discharge and 9.3kwh taking it down 33% which is more than enough to run the fridge and standby loads at night.

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Chester New Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 32	Re: Offgrid solar power Reply #18 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:10pm Why don't you just put an extension cord into a wall socket like normal people do. Gawd.
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barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #19 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:14pm

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:07pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:02pm:

Bobby. wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:27pm:

dear Barry,
you would have to be very careful about lead acid batteries.
They give off hydrogen gas when over charged which
can explode from the slightest spark or flame.

I would go for an approved lithium ion battery system
with proper, smart electronics controlling everything.

Hello Bobby.

Understand where you are coming from. I have also used FLA traction batteries in forklifts for years and understand the need for proper ventilation while gassing.

My concern with lithium batteries is the danger of fire if overcharged/out of balance. given I don't have an issue with space and would be building a proper shed to house the batteries I don't think the FLA batteries would be an issue.

If you buy lead acid batteries where you can take the top caps
off each cell while they are charging and have a look -
you can see when you've got a bad cell about to cause trouble -
it will be gassing far more than the other cells.

You need a ventilation system to get rid of any hydrogen gas.
That fan will waste some of the energy.

As long as there is a vented area at the top of the roof the hydrogen being lighter than air will disipate without a forced draft. all very valid points though.

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barryfromthebush Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 702 Bum Chum Gender:	Re: Offgrid solar power Reply #20 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:15pm Chester wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:10pm: Why don't you just put an extension cord into a wall socket like normal people do. Gawd. Why don't you try sticking a knife in the socket? Gawd.
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Johnnie

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #21 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:18pm

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:15pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:16pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:03pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 4:58pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

Why would you? how many times have you been without power and for how long and what has been the inconvenience, the power companies pay compensation after being without power for any significant length of time.
Sola panels are a must but batteries cost megabux and have to be replaced, as yet they are not proven as to how long they will last and if they will blowup.
A good generator to run the essentials for $700 is the go if you can't do without power.

I like being self sufficient. Pay off time is 5 years at current power prices. Flooded Lead Acid are not as dear as you would expect and if you take care of them the will last a lot longer than 5 years by which time you are ahead.

EDIT: Ive already got a diesel 3 phase genny that will run the whole house and shed.

What would be the outlay for you to get the power you need? solar panels and batteries included. I hear it takes a lot longer than 5yrs to get your money back.

Roughly $2300 for the panels (I get a good deal buying in bulk for pumps) $2900 for the inverter/charger and $2700 for 600AH of FLA batteries. Power bill at the moment is about $500 a quarter including workshop. given most of the use is in the day I can run directly off solar most of time without worrying about battery draw down.

I got priced on a system from a local solar installer and they wanted $17k installed for a 20kwh system but with only like 3kw of panels, doing it yourself saves a shite load.

So it is only $2,700 for the battery you need?

for 600AH at 48v using 12v cells its about $2750 plus GST

this would give me 28KWH too full discharge and 9.3kwh taking it down 33% which is more than enough to run the fridge and standby loads at night.

So not enough to run your A/C, and if it were a cloudy day what then what with only one $2,700 battery and no mains.

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« Last Edit: Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:23pm by Johnnie »

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Chester

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #22 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:25pm

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:15pm:

Chester wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Why don't you just put an extension cord into a wall socket like normal people do. Gawd.

Why don't you try sticking a knife in the socket? Gawd.

Oh gawd no, I don't like sharp objects.
When Gareth was getting his prince albert, as soon as I saw that sharp thing they used on Torro I passed out and hit my head so badly it left a great big scar above my left eye. Gareth likes it and says it makes me look like I'm into rough trade. Ohhh ahhhh.

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barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #23 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:27pm

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:18pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:15pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:16pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:03pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 4:58pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

Why would you? how many times have you been without power and for how long and what has been the inconvenience, the power companies pay compensation after being without power for any significant length of time.
Sola panels are a must but batteries cost megabux and have to be replaced, as yet they are not proven as to how long they will last and if they will blowup.
A good generator to run the essentials for $700 is the go if you can't do without power.

I like being self sufficient. Pay off time is 5 years at current power prices. Flooded Lead Acid are not as dear as you would expect and if you take care of them the will last a lot longer than 5 years by which time you are ahead.

EDIT: Ive already got a diesel 3 phase genny that will run the whole house and shed.

What would be the outlay for you to get the power you need? solar panels and batteries included. I hear it takes a lot longer than 5yrs to get your money back.

Roughly $2300 for the panels (I get a good deal buying in bulk for pumps) $2900 for the inverter/charger and $2700 for 600AH of FLA batteries. Power bill at the moment is about $500 a quarter including workshop. given most of the use is in the day I can run directly off solar most of time without worrying about battery draw down.

I got priced on a system from a local solar installer and they wanted $17k installed for a 20kwh system but with only like 3kw of panels, doing it yourself saves a shite load.

So it is only $2,700 for the battery you need?

for 600AH at 48v using 12v cells its about $2750 plus GST

this would give me 28KWH too full discharge and 9.3kwh taking it down 33% which is more than enough to run the fridge and standby loads at night.

So not enough to run your A/C, and if it were a cloudy day what then with only one $2,700 battery and no mains.

And the AC sorry, its a 9000 btu inverter, uses about 300w maintaining temp. basically you can pull 1kw for ~9 hours and the load with fridge (intermediate 120w) and standby loads is no more than 750-800w. these figures are of course working on a very leisurely 30% DOD

5Kw of panels will charge (albeit at a reduced rate) even on a cloudy day with a modest battery pack.

Even if I ran my diesel genny once a week for a few hours during the wet season too top up the batteries if needed it would still be cost effective.

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Johnnie

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #24 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:29pm

Chester wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:25pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:15pm:

Chester wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:10pm:

Why don't you just put an extension cord into a wall socket like normal people do. Gawd.

Why don't you try sticking a knife in the socket? Gawd.

Oh gawd no, I don't like sharp objects.
When Gareth was getting his prince albert, as soon as I saw that sharp thing they used on Torro I passed out and hit my head so badly it left a great big scar above my left eye. Gareth likes it and says it makes me look like I'm into rough trade. Ohhh ahhhh.

Never run with scissors, that can be very dangerous as well.

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John Smith

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #25 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:36pm

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

there's a fruit loop on another forum named Dax who seems to know what he's on about with this stuff. This is one of his comments, he's made many about this topic across the forum so you'll have to look them up if you want more.

Quote:

It cost me $14000 to be totally off grid in todays money, already had solar and lead acid batteries, which was not a good system. Using lifepo4, as long as there is sun for 3-4 hrs a day never run out and have yet to run out of energy in the last 10 years. My system consists of 4200w of solar and 700ah of lifepo4 cells, running through 50amp mppt controller which had built to my specifications and the work wonderfully well.

As the entire system is below 50v, you can do it yourself and save a fortune, wouldn't buy a tesla pack, way to expensive, inefficient and you can by lifepo4 cells really cheap in Aus.

He seems to think LIPO 4 batteries are the way to go, I've never heard of them myself.
He hasn't been on for a while so no idea if he's keeping an eye on the forum. He tends to go off his rocker.

If you do a search you'll find more information about this stuff from him

https://www.polanimal.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4186&hilit=renewables&start=25

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Our esteemed leader:
I hope that bitch who was running their brothels for them gets raped with a cactus.

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barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #26 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:39pm

John Smith wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:36pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

there's a fruit loop on another forum named Dax who seems to know what he's on about with this stuff. This is one of his comments, he's made many about this topic across the forum so you'll have to look them up if you want more.

Quote:

It cost me $14000 to be totally off grid in todays money, already had solar and lead acid batteries, which was not a good system. Using lifepo4, as long as there is sun for 3-4 hrs a day never run out and have yet to run out of energy in the last 10 years. My system consists of 4200w of solar and 700ah of lifepo4 cells, running through 50amp mppt controller which had built to my specifications and the work wonderfully well.

As the entire system is below 50v, you can do it yourself and save a fortune, wouldn't buy a tesla pack, way to expensive, inefficient and you can by lifepo4 cells really cheap in Aus.

He seems to think LIPO 4 batteries are the way to go, I've never heard of them myself.
He hasn't been on for a while so no idea if he's keeping an eye on the forum. He tends to go off his rocker.

If you do a search you'll find more information about this stuff from him

https://www.polanimal.com.au/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4186&hilit=renewables&start=25

Thanks mate, I'll check it out.

Only issue with low voltage is every time you halve the voltage you double the current which doubles cable size etc and copper is expensive! just ask the wire thieves getting around!

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Johnnie

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #27 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:40pm

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:27pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:18pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:08pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 6:15pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:42pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:16pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 5:03pm:

Johnnie wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 4:58pm:

barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 17^th, 2019 at 8:21pm:

Has anyone had any experience with off grid solar? I already pump from the river and irrigate with solar and now I want to go further and tell power mob to shove there bill up there arse.

Any experience appreciated.

Why would you? how many times have you been without power and for how long and what has been the inconvenience, the power companies pay compensation after being without power for any significant length of time.
Sola panels are a must but batteries cost megabux and have to be replaced, as yet they are not proven as to how long they will last and if they will blowup.
A good generator to run the essentials for $700 is the go if you can't do without power.

I like being self sufficient. Pay off time is 5 years at current power prices. Flooded Lead Acid are not as dear as you would expect and if you take care of them the will last a lot longer than 5 years by which time you are ahead.

EDIT: Ive already got a diesel 3 phase genny that will run the whole house and shed.

What would be the outlay for you to get the power you need? solar panels and batteries included. I hear it takes a lot longer than 5yrs to get your money back.

Roughly $2300 for the panels (I get a good deal buying in bulk for pumps) $2900 for the inverter/charger and $2700 for 600AH of FLA batteries. Power bill at the moment is about $500 a quarter including workshop. given most of the use is in the day I can run directly off solar most of time without worrying about battery draw down.

I got priced on a system from a local solar installer and they wanted $17k installed for a 20kwh system but with only like 3kw of panels, doing it yourself saves a shite load.

So it is only $2,700 for the battery you need?

for 600AH at 48v using 12v cells its about $2750 plus GST

this would give me 28KWH too full discharge and 9.3kwh taking it down 33% which is more than enough to run the fridge and standby loads at night.

So not enough to run your A/C, and if it were a cloudy day what then with only one $2,700 battery and no mains.

And the AC sorry, its a 9000 btu inverter, uses about 300w maintaining temp. basically you can pull 1kw for ~9 hours and the load with fridge (intermediate 120w) and standby loads is no more than 750-800w. these figures are of course working on a very leisurely 30% DOD

5Kw of panels will charge (albeit at a reduced rate) even on a cloudy day with a modest battery pack.

Even if I ran my diesel genny once a week for a few hours during the wet season too top up the batteries if needed it would still be cost effective.

Does your A/C pull 1,000 watts per hour or 1,000 watts over 9 hours?

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John Smith Gold Member Offline Australian Politics Posts: 78311 Gender:	Re: Offgrid solar power Reply #28 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:41pm barryfromthebush wrote on Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:39pm: just ask the wire thieves getting around! bury it.
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barryfromthebush

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Re: Offgrid solar power
Reply #29 - Feb 18^th, 2019 at 7:48pm

Just digressing slightly, If I can give members who have bores/pump from creeks etc one piece of advice its google solar pumping if you ever need a new pump. Ive had mine in for 7 years and only taken it out once to change to a higher flow/lower head impeller stack. no batteries makes the issue of storage and battery life irrelevant.

Disclaimer: I sell and install these systems on the side of my engineering business.

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